TV

Interview with Crystal Chappell

As the fall television season gets underway with few lesbian characters or storylines in sight, lesbian viewers are eagerly anticipating the launch of the new web series Venice, the brainchild of soap star Crystal Chappell (best known to lesbian viewers as one half of Guiding Light‘s lesbian super-couple, Olivia and Natalia, or “Otalia”).

The web series reunites Chappell with Jessica Leccia, her Guiding Light love interest, in a medium where their remarkable chemistry can be more fully expressed. The web series also stars Elizabeth Keener (The L Word), Daniel Cosgrove (Guiding Light), and Michelle Carter.

When CBS canceled Guiding Light, ending its unparalleled 72-year run on radio and television (the final episode airs September 18), the entrepreneurial, tech-savvy Chappell saw an opportunity to continue telling stories featuring lesbian characters and relationships, but without networks or corporate producers making the rules.

Chappell spoke with AfterEllen.com about Venice and her character, Gina, as well as her thoughts on the Otalia storyline as it draws to a close this week.

AfterEllen.com: What is Venice going to be about?

Crystal Chappell:Venice is about a community of people in Venice Beach, California. The lead character, her name is Gina, she’s an out lesbian; she’s a businesswoman, a very successful interior designer of hotels. Her mother died when she was 16. Her father’s a retired Colonel, very disapproving of everything and everyone in general, and she’s sort of had to raise her little brother. And had her heart broken very early on, and has had lousy relationships ever since.

So she’s just trying to find love in Venice Beach.

AE: How many episodes are you planning?

CC: At this point approximately 12 [episodes], approximately seven to 10 minutes maybe on the high end. At this point we’ll try to do five seasons a year.

AE: Five seasons a year! Wow!

CC:I mean, it depends. We’re going to try to get as many seasons in as we can. We’ve already finished writing the first season. And it ends with a bang.

AE: So we’ll all be desperately waiting to find out what happens in season two.

CC: Yes. I’m really happy with the end of it. I think Kim [Turrisi, Venice‘s head writer] did a great job.

AE: What are your short-term and long-term ambitions for the show?

CC:Well, the short term is to actually get it – we’ve got a couple of scenes shot – but I want to get it finished, I want to get it on the web. I’d love to be able to keep the show going on the web for as long as possible.

Long term, I don’t know. Ultimately I’d love to see – it would be great to have a show on an FX or some kind of cable network that features a lead lesbian character. That would be a really wonderful thing to have in the end of all this.

AE: Do you think that it’s possible for a show to sustain itself long term just on the web, without hopes of going to cable?

CC: Absolutely. Yes, I do think there’s hope for that. And in fact I have no problem staying on the web. It’s new, it’s interesting, there’s a lot to be learned from it. And I think we’re starting to make that transition. Even just a few months ago I had more than a number of people say there’s no way to make money. I think we’ll figure it out.

That’s how they figured out how to transition shows from radio to television. It’s less expensive and you can do a lot more in a shorter period of time. And I think if you can find an audience there’s the hope for longevity.

AE: Do you have a clear sense of what you think the business model is going to be? Are you looking at sponsorship, syndication?

CC:We’re looking at all of that. Sponsorship, syndication, subscriptions. Right now we’re in talks with a few people. So we’re just waiting to see how that all pans out. But it’s all very, very positive, people are very interested, which is lovely for us. And, yeah, we haven’t made a decision on that yet.

We’re opening up a Venice store on our website in another week, and the winner of the logo contest will have his or her logo on the products. Which is kind of exciting. And we have a lot of great artists submitting their music, and it’s fantastic stuff. So it’s been a wonderfully interactive experience. We want to help launch other artists as well. It’s sort of this intermingling that drives inspiration.

AE: How much are things like the writing and the storylines influenced by the feedback you’re getting from fans?

CC: The whole inspiration for the series came from my experience on Guiding Light and the story that I played with Jessica Leccia [Natalia]. The day that we were canceled, I called Kim – Kim is my writing and producing partner – and we were working on another project and I said let’s just table that for now and let’s create a web series and have the lead character be an out lesbian, and very comfortable with who she is.

I don’t want it to be about her sexuality, I want it to be about who she is as a person, and what her struggles in life are.

So Kim jumped on it, and she came back with just great characters. And obviously it came from the feedback that I got from the Otalia fans. They were so completely passionate and vocal and specific about what it is that they liked about that story. And the underlying message was “That’s us. That’s our normal life, raising children, paying bills.” And it was really a big moment for me of “OK, there’s a need for this.”

So when I heard that we were cancelled it seemed only natural – well, for me only natural – to go to the web. Because that’s where I spend a lot of my time. I spend more time on the computer than I do in front of my television set. That’s the sad truth, or the happy truth, or whatever truth it is. That’s what it is.

AE: Did you want Gina to be out and comfortable with her sexuality because of the feedback you were getting from fans about the focus on Guiding Light?

CC: No. I mean, I loved the story that they told on Guiding Light. My character was around for nine years before she even met Natalia, and was always with men. So it’s a completely different situation.

I just really wanted to have a lead character on a show that was a lesbian and there were no issues about that. She’s comfortable with who she is. Not to say that she’s never going to run into some problems along the way, but it was just a different approach to the idea of the story. I really just wanted it to be a show about story and family, and I didn’t want to focus it so much on, “Ooh, she’s a lesbian!” [laughs] Let’s just get past that and get on with the living part of her story.

AE: I read that the drama you and Kim were developing was about strippers, which intrigued me because I think strippers, lesbians, these are women on society’s margins. Is that something that particularly interests you? Do you see a connection between those two things?

CC: I think I must be intrigued by it, because it’s where my interest lies in storytelling. I love all walks of life. I’m certainly intrigued by women who – I think it’s the struggle, possibly, that … of course struggle always makes for good story. I have a natural inclination to tell a female-driven story. That certainly appeals to me, and Kim as well.

I will say this about all the characters that we create – it’s about acceptance. Hence the name Open Book Productions. We want to create stories about people who have to learn to live with each other and accept each other, and love each other in spite of their differences.

AE: What is it about Gina that is most exciting to you as an actress?

CC: I think that she’s just such a bright character, she’s been so successful in business, which is a huge part of who she is. She’s at the top of her game. I mean, here’s a person who can’t stay in a relationship, and at her age – and I’m definitely making her at least seven years younger than me, right away – she still hasn’t resolved her issues with her family. I find that intriguing, the idea that she can be so successful in one area of her life, and be so miserably blocked at the other end.

So I find that intriguing about her, because I think a lot of people live that way. That they focus so much on one aspect of their life and maybe don’t give other aspects the attention they need.

And also, just from an actress’ point of view, it gives me someplace to go. And gives the writers someplace to go. So it makes for an interesting story, hopefully.

AE: In terms of the character getting to grow and change over time?

CC: Exactly. And how she affects other people with her limitations.

AE: You’ve had a long career in soaps, which are made in a very corporate-driven kind of environment. What are you most looking forward to about working on a more artist-driven project, that’s possible because of the web?

CC: Oh, well, it’s total freedom! Comparatively, it’s just total freedom. Because you have choices. I mean, on the one hand, it’s exciting because it is so freeing. On the other hand, they are all your decisions, and people will react accordingly. [laughs] “It’s not enough, it’s too much.” But I think those of us who have been around for a long time realize that you’re not going to be able to please everybody. You can only be happy with it yourself.

But it’s apples and oranges. It’s so liberating to be able to create the kind of show you want to create. And right now you can only do that on the web, and have an audience.

AE: What was your favorite scene to film of the last year and a half of the Otalia relationship?

CC: I loved the whole lead up to the wedding, and in particular the graveyard scene, where Olivia finally tells Natalia that she’s in love with her. They built that so nicely, and honestly by the time we got to tape those scenes, we were relieved when they were finished. We were all so relieved. Not just Jessie and myself, but you know the crew, because they had been waiting for this for a long time.

I love, love, love the gazebo scenes. I thought they were beautifully written. I thought Jessica was brilliant in them. And certainly the first kiss, which was actually fun and whimsical. Those were the three groups of scenes which I thought were really, really fun for the couple.

AE: There’s been a big complaint among viewers about the fact that Olivia and Natalia haven’t had a realistic physical relationship. When did you find out that these two characters weren’t going to have the same kind of physical relationship that the straight couples on the show were having?

CC: Well, the first kiss I think aired in January, and at that point I just assumed that once these two women said that they were in love with each other that there would be more physical intimacy. I just assumed that. So I imagine at the same time as everyone else! [laughs] You know, I only got my scripts a week in advance and so once I started to see that, I mean, I certainly can’t say anything beyond that, but would I have moved it along personally? Yes, I would have. I would have liked to have seen more intimacy, I would have moved it along much quicker.

AE: Where does that come from, your desire to have moved it along more quickly?

CC:Well I’m just thinking in terms of when they admitted their feelings for each other. Once these two had decided that they were in love with each other, knowing that they had huge obstacles in their way, but it’s a natural impulse to hold each other and it’s a natural impulse to kiss, in my opinion. I think that there’s a lot to be said for yearning. And I think we played that very well. I think they wrote it very well over the last year or so.

But at some point it seems unreal that you wouldn’t just kiss somebody hello or goodbye. I think then that becomes a natural part of your relationship. That’s been a natural part of my relationships! [laughs] Whether it’s just a friendship or something more, I think that’s just something that happens. So it seemed a little unbelievable. And I think that you could see it onscreen.

I’ve said it before – I told Jessica I’m just going to come in and pull your hair, because at this point I don’t know what else to do. [laughs] I gotta let ya know that I like ya! And that’s what kids in grade school do, right? But that’s, ultimately, it’s the big reason why I felt the web would be a very good place to go to tell this particular story.

AE: Did you feel like it was because of pressure from Proctor & Gamble or CBS or some other entity?

CC:It’s really not for me to say, because I don’t know. Regardless, my choice in the matter is to respect other people’s decisions, whatever their reasons are, and to go on and create something that I can control.

AE: So you weren’t running into someone’s office and demanding a kiss?

CC: No, I’m a smarter person than that [laughs], I like to think.

AE: Have you seen this video on YouTube, “Hitler Finds Out Otalia Won’t Kiss”?

CC:Oh, god, yes! Frickin’ hilarious! I love it!

AE: But very cathartic to watch for those of us who are frustrated.

CC:It is! No, I did speak with people. I spoke with P&G, and I spoke with, certainly with Ellen [Wheeler, Executive Producer] and Jill [Lorie Hurst, Head Writer], and I gave them my opinion about it, because they were available to hear it, you know?

Beyond that, all you can do is walk out of a room and say I hope they make the best decision for themselves. And there you go. We’re on the web.

AE: Did you and Jessica, as actors, ever make the decision, “You know what? Our characters are kissing, maybe they’re even having sex, they’re not showing it onscreen, but we know it as actors, and we’re going to play this scene as if we’ve already progressed to that level”?

CC: No. I didn’t feel like that would be honest. It’s hard to do something like that and tell their story, because that’s not what was on the page. Toward the end, like in the last couple of days of shooting, yes. But up until then, no, it was about these women trying to even decide to move in with each other, you know?

AE: Having seen so many depictions of lesbian characters or relationships on American television follow a similar path on this particular issue, I feel like as a viewer the web is going to be where it’s at for lesbians who want to see things that are more realistic.

CC:And when certain corporate entities see that it works, maybe we’ll get it on television in some capacity. Not that I think that’s necessary. It’s just that I think that they want to see that it’s all going to work first. That might be one way to approach it, is to just show ’em. I think things can change, I think things have changed.

It won’t start on television, let me put it you that way. It’ll have to be on something like the Internet.

AE: I’m a huge fan of the character Olivia. I think she’s fantastic. Whenever I see the word “villain” put in front of her name I do not understand.

CC:Well, you know, that’s an old label, hero, villain, we kind of have to update those too, I think. But the point is that there were so many people – I’m sure there are people who still feel this way – initially there were so many people who said, “That’s just unrealistic.

There’s no way, given the fact that I’ve watched her for 10 years going after men, that she would all of a sudden fall for a woman.” And I said, “Well, yeah, she would! This is what happened to her.” And here she fell in love with this person.

AE: There are many lesbian viewers who didn’t find it mysterious at all, and thought that Olivia’s tendency to move from man to man to man and never truly be able to commit or make it work, was actually the sign that maybe all along she had been a lesbian and just had not been aware of it.

CC: That could very well be true too.

AE: For those of us who have seen people go through it, or have gone through it ourselves, it actually felt very realistic for a character like that. But I think maybe for straight audiences it’s not as apparent.

CC:Well, you know what’s been nice is having feedback from the straight audience. There are many, many women, mothers saying I never thought I would approve of a storyline like this, but I can now see how two people, whatever sex, can fall in love with each other. They invested, they allowed themselves to be invested in a love story. It just happened to be with two women. And those moments – and I got a lot of those letters – felt really good to me at the end of it.

AE: Watching Guiding Light it was clear that there was a – to use a semi-loaded word – a political agenda in persuading people who maybe weren’t comfortable with gay people to become more comfortable through these characters and this relationship. Did you ever feel like that agenda was put forward at the expense of maybe what would be natural for the characters?

CC: I felt like everything that the characters went through was natural. There was never really an agenda other than to tell a love story. From the first meeting I had with Ellen Wheeler, it was, “This is a love story. Period.” It wasn’t about trying to convince anybody to believe something differently. It was just to simply entertain people by telling a love story. It just happened to be with these two women.

And never once did I feel like the character was compromised. I felt like she grew into who she was really meant to be. After all of what she’s been through in 10 years, she’s found a real and enduring love with Natalia.

AE: Are the characters truly uncomfortable having a physical relationship, or is that the way the story played out because the powers that be want to make viewers who perhaps never met a gay person comfortable at the expense of what would be natural for Olivia and Natalia?

CC:It could be both. Certainly believe the conversation between Olivia and Natalia when they were talking about being nervous about having sex with each other, and it was unknown territory for both. Those are conversations you have in relationships anyway, whatever the relationship.

In terms of what would make people feel comfortable, I imagine maybe there was something. I can only guess, because I’m not in the room when these decisions are made. I would imagine that there’s truth to that. I go back to you have to know your audiences and you have to respect the decisions that people make for their audience. I would have loved to have seen a lot more intimacy with Olivia and Natalia.

I think it would have been more realistic in the end just to have a simple, romantic kiss, or even to suggest that there’s more going on. But it’s not my decision.

AE: Back to Venice, where things are your decision. When can viewers look forward to seeing Gina and her efforts at finding love come to the Internet?

CC:Well, we’re planning on launching in November. When exactly, I don’t know. If we end up shooting in the end of October or early November, it’ll take a couple weeks to turn things around so probably after Thanksgiving I think. And the first episode is really about Ani and Gina, who are Jessie and me, and yeah, they’re exes, and they’ve reconnected after a long absence, so you’ll see right away what the problems are. [laughs]

But also the fact that these two women care very deeply for each other. It was a nice beginning. I like the way it starts. And the way it ends. [laughs]

AE: Except you’ve already told me there’s a huge cliffhanger which is going to drive us all crazy! Is that actually true? Or did I just assume that?

CC:No, there is. It’s really about relationships from romance, but it’s also, there are a lot of people who fall down in the series, you know, the metaphorical fall, and the end is – yeah, you wonder what’s going to happen next. I don’t want to say anything, because I can’t!

Guiding Light ends Sep. 18. Read our weekly recaps of the lesbian relationship here, and keep up with the web series at VeniceTheSeries.com

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