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Jen Richards on helping queer trans women come to light on “I Am Cait”

If you’ve seen the trailblazing series I Am Cait featuring a fearless Caitlyn Jenner spotlighting the woman who was once the epitome of masculinity in American culture, then you may have noticed the well-spoken confidant that she has in out queer and trans writer/actor/activist Jen Richards.

photos by Zoe Logan

Jen, who dates both men and women, masterfully and delicately elevates the conversation on episodes 2 and 3 of the E! reality series, carrying as much grace in her body as she does in her smile. She often interjects tidbits off screen to a smiling Caitlyn, who earnestly redirects her words in a more enlightened way. You can tell they both are there for all the right reasons.

Jen quickly went from turning down the opportunity to meet Cailtyn on reality television to eventually agreeing to a one-time dinner, to being excited about the project enough to accept an invitation to be a series regular. Even better, Jen now counts Caitlyn as a friend.

We sat down for an honest and frank interview with Jen about her experience on the show, what it’s like to work in the shadow of the Kardashian empire, and what Caitlyn Jenner is like outside of the spotlight.

AE: First off congratulations on I Am Cait. It’s huge and it’s doing so much good.

Jen Richards: Thank you!

AE: How did you get hooked up into that experience?

JR: I was on a short-list of people that they wanted to call for the show, they were familiar with my work, but because I lived in Chicago it wasn’t an option. Then there’s a trans guy from the Bunim/Murray Productions team follows me on Twitter who saw that I was in LA. He reached out and asked if I would be interested in having dinner with Cait. And I said no.

AE: [Laughs] What! Why?!

JR: I was really suspicious-or skeptical-about a reality show, basically, and I didn’t want to be a part of reality television. Particularly not with the team that did Keeping Up With The Kardashians. But I said I’d be happy to talk with Cait, just off camera. So we went back and forth, and the person who reached out to me is himself a trans guy, so that created this opening for me because I could talk with him more openly and honestly, and I was assured it was being handled really well on their side.

AE: Right.

JR: So that started opening my mind a little bit. Then Cait called me directly and we talked for a little on the phone and she really won me over. She is just a really sweet and genuine person and I completely trusted her intentions. So I went over there and had dinner with the girls, which you saw on the show, too.

AE: Wait, So when you went to dinner that was really your first time walking in and seeing Cait and meeting everybody?

JR: Yup, that was all true and live.

AE: Wow!

JR: Yes and I didn’t recognize her when I came in because the pictures hadn’t come out yet. I only knew who she was because I knew all the other girls in the room and it was process of elimination. I said, “Okay, this must be Cait!”

AE: So you didn’t recognize her?

JR: No! I mean look at the pictures of her. Would you have recognized her? She looks amazing.

AE: No. Wow, so were you nervous? You’re dealing with reality television, your first experience with it and hoping it’ll come off okay. I assume you were in her actual house, so that’s kind of nerve wracking to be a guest in her home, or did you sort-of settle in?

JR: No, I guess it should have been more nerve wracking, but I mean I didn’t care enough for it to be nerve wracking, and I don’t mean that in a bad way, it’s just that Cait is just another trans woman to me. I had never seen Keeping Up With the Kardashians, I wasn’t following all that stuff, so she was just a newly out trans woman that I was going to have a conversation with along with some other really cool trans women. You do kind of forget that the cameras are there. And then the crew of the team are probably the nicest people I’ve met in my life, I had so much fun with them that it so very quickly never felt like television, it just felt like hanging with friends. Then dinner went well, then they asked me to go on that road trip with her, then they asked me to be a series regular.

AE: That’s really great! I also noticed that you are very good on the show at elevating the conversation in a gracious way. You have a way of, I don’t want to say “correcting,” but you have a talent for guiding the conversation if Caitlyn says something that maybe she didn’t quite think through.

JR: [Laughs]

AE: You have a very gentle way of being like, “Did you mean really mean this?” For example, I was watching episode 3 and Caitlyn said something like, “I think I would wait to have sex with a man until I have the right parts.” And then you said, “You mean the parts you both are comfortable with?” And she goes, “Yeah, yeah, that’s what I meant. The parts we are comfortable with.” I thought it was the most amazing, gentle, guidance—and here we are watching her learn in real time! So do you find yourself in that role, sort of realizing that she’s learning from you as you guys are hanging out?

JR: Yeah, absolutely. She had never met a trans person before the show. She met her first trans person two days before she met the rest of us. So it was completely new to her, she had never been a part of that community or had those conversations. So a lot of it is very much a learning curve and learning with her, I’m just lucky that I’ve had a lot of practice in having those conversations. And because of social media and the ways in which language and ideas and implications and consequences are so carefully scrutinized, I had a lot of opportunities to practice those conversations where Caitlyn hasn’t yet.

AE: Right, and it seems that she’s genuinely interested and excited about learning and that seems to be the case.

JR: Yes, she has this sort of contagious enthusiasm. She’s 65 and finally getting to be herself for the first time. She has the resources to really enjoy it in a way that most of us don’t get to, and she’s coming out at a time where it’s being celebrated rather than mocked, for the most part. So of course she’s excited.

AE: Before Cait transitioned, she loved things like golf and riding through dirt, so forgive me when I say that it genuinely surprised me at almost at how high femme she’s gone—she’s like the sixth Kardashian! I thought for sure when she transitioned she’d be like me, holding it down for the butch lesbians—

JR: [Laughs] You know, I did the exact same thing.

AE: You went high femme?

JR: [Laughs] Well yeah! You know me, I’m not exactly butch…

AE: No, you are not!

JR: I was a very masculine guy, just like Caitlyn was before she transitioned. I don’t think it’s uncommon. I think it’s partly that when you’re male and you’re interested in women, I think its encouraged to play up your masculinity as much as possible and diminish your femininity as much as possible. But then you also kind of develop this heteronormative sense of gender roles. So, for me, I went from being a masculine man who dated feminine woman, to becoming a feminine woman dating masculine men. I flipped the dynamic. It was the same dynamic, I Just went to the other side of it.

AE: Oh wow. Yeah.

JR: I don’t know that it’s really uncommon. It didn’t surprise me, but it makes sense to me that she’d do it that way. Now where she’ll end up two or three years from now, who knows.

AE: Right.

JR: I think we feel like we have to work so hard to establish the legitimacy of our womanhood in transition, so if you come from a heteronormative background that means adhering to traditional feminine roles. I came from a southern family where ladies are ladies and I very much adhere to that. But as more time goes on, I am more comfortable with letting certain aspects of my personality come to the foreground. Cait is a little more bold with that than I am, because she loves—you know, she’s not going to stop shooting guns and riding motorcycles and playing whatever sport she’s into at the time. I kind of admire that about her that she’s not letting all that go.

AE: Yeah that’s great.

JR: But as far as her presentation goes, she’s also a woman who Diane von Furstenberg is like sending dresses to, and she’s a part of the Kardashian family.

AE: Now that’s interesting, do you notice the income disparity the most when you’re hanging out with Cait? You’ve got to right, because she totally has a lot of things afforded her that a lot of trans women don’t—even in terms of passing, with professional make up and hair and all that stuff. It’s got to be noticeable in real life as well.

JR: Yes absolutely, she is given for free, clothes and bags that I would never be able to afford in my lifetime. For free! Because of who she is. [Laughs] Of course I’m envious.

AE: Yeah and just to see her learn about other trans women on the show that have had to turn to things like sex work to survive and things, to see her reaction to that, it’s almost like she is breaking out of two bubbles. The socioeconomic advantage she’s had and transitioning.

JR: In a way the show is about intersectionality and that’s probably the most exciting to me. Because when you talk about it, your gender, your class, and your race intersect. And that’s a very different experience for most trans people. Caitlyn is realizing that.

AE: Totally. I think the only real critique I’ve heard from the show is there’s a lot of focus on the “girlie-ing” of Caitlyn. What do you think about that?

JR: I mean I get it, because the instant reaction is to say oh she’s reducing womanhood to these superficial adaptations, surface issues, but you have to remember it from the other side. Imagine that there’s a set of behaviors and indicators that affirm your womanhood and you’re told your entire life that you cant have them, you can’t access them, you can’t get anywhere near them without feeling shame and guilt and like you’ll be mocked for it. When you’re finally free to indulge in those things, I think those are the first things that you go for. I know a lot of my lesbian friends talk about how they were forced to wear dresses a kid and how much they hated it because they were tomboys or whatever. And I get that experience. But I’m someone who if I went close to a dress, I would get flushed from the shame that I wanted to wear one. So when I could do it freely, I put a little extra focus on that.

AE: So how do you feel about the way that show is addressing sexuality, including the focus on who Caitlyn is going to date next? Everyone seems to be concerned over whether she’s a lesbian now. She seems to be resisting this label, and any labels on her sexuality really.

JR: Yeah! We obviously, you know talk a lot about sex and dating and love. Very little of it has made it to air. But it is a point of conversation on the show. And as she’s said on the air, she really is not thinking about it right now. She has ten kids who she loves, she has a lot of respect and affection for, she’s kinda focused on getting through her transition that is comfortable and affirming for her. And she’s sort of bracketing off conversations about dating and love. I don’t think she’s even thinking at all about it right now. I guess with the public’s fascination, I guess that’s normal. We’re always interested in other people’s love life, for some reason. And I think its an interesting kind of voyeuristic tawdry question like, this someone who appeared to the world as this masculine man who suddenly becomes a very feminine woman, and will they still date people? And people don’t hear much about trans love stories so maybe they’re trying to figure out where we fit in. So I think it’s interesting, but I think she’s pretty honest about where’s she’s at.

AE: Was there any overlap between Keeping Up with the Kardashians and I Am Cait? Or did you interact with her kids at all in filming.

JR: Well I’ve met several of her kids, her sister, her mom. All very nice people, the ones I’ve met. I had never seen Keeping up with the Kardashians. You might have seen episode three of I Am Cait, where we were picking out bathing suits and Cait said, “Oh this is one like my daughter Kimberly would pick out, if you know what I mean.” And I said, “I actually do not know what you mean.”

AE: [Laughs] But it’s Kimberly!

JR: Because I didn’t know what that meant! She would often have to explain to me references about her kids.

AE: I almost love that. I bet she really loved that. So my last question is are you friends in real life?

JR: We are! We hang out off camera and we text regularly.

AE: That’s so great! Because, I like to think that when relationships feel honest on screen, they carry off screen. I root for that anyway.

JR: I truly wouldn’t have done this had I not felt like Cait wasn’t someone I could be friends with.

I Am Cait airs Sunday nights at on E! And check back tomorrow for a piece on her new project HerStory, which we’ll have a story on tomorrow. Follow Jen on Twitter: @smartassjen

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