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Catching up with Kaia Wilson

Number 16 on Afterellen.com’s “50 Most Important Queer Women in Music,” Kaia Wilson‘s career has spanned two decades, three bands, and four solo albums. A founding member of legendary queercore bands Team Dresch and The Butchies, Wilson also created the now-defunct Mr. Lady Records with Tammy Rae Carland in 1997. She recently spoke to us about her musical history, playing competitive ping pong and raising awareness about LGBT issues.

AfterEllen.com: You played two shows at Ladyfest Brazil this past spring with Team Dresch. How did those go? I know the band has had other reunions in recent years, but was there any specific reason why you (the band) decided to play then/there?

Kaia Wilson: Both shows, in Sao Paulo and in Santos, were incredible. We had no idea we had so many fans in Brazil! The kids were singing along to all our songs, it was such an awakening moment for us around how much our band had a positive affect on queer and misfit punks worldwide. We actually had wanted to play in Brazil and I guess our friend Elisa Gargiulo from the band Dominatrix must have felt our psychic vibes because she invited us to play – she organized the Ladyfest Brazil and the Santos show.

AE: As far as reunions go, is it ever strange to be playing with them again so long after the band “officially” ended?

KW: I think the first reunion show we did (in 2004 at Homo-A-Go-Go Olympia, WA) was so powerful and our music doesn’t necessarily feel “dated” – that’s the beauty of songs, they can live on and on forever, and the live performance of those songs has its own nature and importance – so it actually feels really just radical to continue playing the “oldies.” Sometimes we try to throw in new songs, too.

AE: Is it worthwhile to hold off on a reunion that results in new songs? Do any of you ever write together anymore or is it even something you’ve talked about doing?

KW: When we did short East and West coast tours in 2006-2007 we played a couple new songs – we haven’t started to actually write together but we would like to. Jody just moved back to Portland so now all members from the Personal Best record live in the same town. We’ll see how it goes.

AE: I’m going kind of backwards here, but I’d really like to know more about how TD formed. How did the band come together? I know you were a member of Adickdid at one point; how did you go from being in that band to being in TD?

KW: When I was a struggling queer youth in rural Oregon back in 1989, I somehow found out about Donna Dresch and her zine “Chainsaw.” I wrote her letters and she wrote me back. Then after I graduated high school I moved to Eugene, OR and started Adickdid. Donna had been in several bands and was pretty much legendary in the Pacific Northwest music scene but I still hadn’t met her in person until Adickdid played in Olympia, with 7 Year Bitch, at the capital theatre in 1992 or 1993 and we finally met.

Both Donna and I had also met and were excited about Jody Bleyle from Hazel, and we talked about “jamming” with the 3 of us – which we did in September 1993. That’s when we officially became a band. We went through trying out different drummers until we found Marci Martinez who was perfect and in a band we all loved called Calamity Jane. Marci left the band in 1995 and we asked Melissa York, whom we had befriended on our US tour in ’94 because we played several shows with her band Vitapup from NYC, to play with us on our next record and the subsequent US/European tours of 1996 with Bikini Kill. There you have it.

AE: What were those years like? Stressful? Fun? Wouldn’t ever do it again?

KW: Those years were all of the above, and YES of course I would do it again! I keep doing it! There was a lot more turbulence in the punk scene because Riot Grrrl and Queercore movements were so loud and proud that of course we ruffled a lot of homophobic/skinhead punks’ feathers, but as much as there were difficult and super scary times (after Team Dresch’s first show Donna and Jody got queer bashed by some homophobe coke head dude) there was also an energy and super powerful community motivated feeling. In the early through mid 90’s there was a force that I haven’t ever experienced before or after.

AE: Did you ever think the impact you were making would last? By that I mean, obviously you were reaching and touching people at that time, but did you ever imagine another generation would hear and love and be spoken to by the music you were creating?

KW: No, I didn’t have the foggiest that our music would reach future generations the way it did. When Team Dresch had our first reunion show in 2004, we all cried when we performed. The energy and happiness and the profound affect that music can create and inspire in people is overwhelming, and all the music I have been part of making has been so rewarding to me for the fact that it has served as a source of visibility and validation for people to help them through rough times and/or to inspire them to create positive change in the world.

AE: How were the songs written? Was it a collaborative effort or would someone come in with their own song? How did you decide who would sing what? Out of what you wrote, which you were favorites?

KW: Jody and I often would bring in mostly to pretty completely finished songs, and Donna brought in some songs too, guitar songs without vocal parts or lyrics. Marci wrote the music/structure for “Growing Up In Springfield” and we all collaborated on the arrangement of each song. Of the songs I wrote, my favorites are “Fagetarian and Dyke,” “Freewheel” and “107.”

AE: Where did the album titles come from? Obviously, the first is a reference to the film of the same name, but why was it chosen? Also, how was the artwork chosen?

KW: I think our friend Sarah Dougher (also an esteemed musician) came up with the idea of us calling our first record Personal Best, and I think the artwork was in part just gonna be an homage to the movie too. But I can’t remember (I was 19!) the details of how it came to be exactly. At any rate, I frickin’ love that album art! And the second record we titled after Walt Whitman’s “O Captain! My Captain!” as a nod to his gayness, and also to honor who we deemed our “Team Captain” Donna Dresch. Since all of us had looked up to her in our youth, she was the eldest member and just kinda the coolest!

So the artwork for “Captain” featured her rocking hard on the cover and our friend Rachel Carnes (from The Need) made art that we loved, so we gave her a bunch of stuff to work with and create a collage, and just gave her artistic license from there. The inside, featuring our friend Anne McNally – who wrote us all these incredible letters that we felt had to be included, because she was just so frickin’ cute and earnest and funny and smart and we loved her writing, her message, and her drawings too.

AE: How did the band get involved with Phranc?

KW: Well … oh … I don’t exactly remember! I think we ended up playing a big queer festival with her and it was just all love at first sight/sound. I had been a fan of hers since I was in high school, and we all had so much respect for her and the respect ended up being mutual. She is a real trailblazer and an amazing musician and person.

AE: How did The Butchies form? What made the three of you come together at that time?

KW: After Melissa and I quit Team Dresch in 1996, we had formed a strong bond and knew we wanted to continue playing music together. I eventually moved to North Carolina, and she was in NYC, and we did a “Kaia and Melissa” tour in 1997 then decided we should form a band and went looking for a bass player. We asked around and found out about Alison Martlew, then in a band called Poor Valentino, and we went to see her band and fell in love with Al, right then and there. We asked her to join the band. We formed in April 1998 and recorded our first record Are We Not Femme? in June of 1998.

AE: What was the inspiration behind the name? Were there names you considered before settling on that one?

KW: We wanted our band name to be out so that people would hear it and know we were lez. We thought of calling ourselves LezBot, The Furies, and, my favorite, The Gay Lesbian Homosexuals. Our friend and fellow musician Kathleen Hanna came up with the name for us!

AE: The music you made with them is very different from what you made with TD. That’s not to say it doesn’t have the same passion or isn’t just as meaningful, but there is a definite difference in the overall sound. For instance, you sing differently with them. Was that a conscious decision? Or was it just the result of perhaps being in/at a different place in life?

KW: There wasn’t really a conscious decision for me to sing differently. I definitely tried to scream more in Team Dresch than in the Butchies although my voice is not in its natural home when attempting the scream. So, I think I was more just trusting to stay singing in my most authentic form. I actually think my voice sounds very similar in most the songs/singing. The biggest difference to me would just be in the overall sound. While there’s a commonality running through all my songwriting, who I’m collaborating with will make a huge impact on how each song ends up sounding.

AE: Did you want to be the front woman or did it just happen that way?

KW: It just happened that way. I brought in songs and for the most part wanted to sing the songs I’d written. Alison shared some lead here and there, and Mel did a lot of back-up singing (as well as stand up comedy).

AE: Who did most of the writing? Or was it collaborative? Which songs are your favorites?

KW: I wrote all the lyrics and basic skeletons for the songs, and Melissa and Alison helped to further arrange each composition. My favorite Butchies songs … hmm … “Everything Electrical Will Stay,” “Movies Movies,” “The Wedding Disaster” and “Make Yr Life.”

AE: How did you come up with the album titles and art? I really love the front and back cover of 3, and I’ve always wondered where that idea came from.

KW: Most of the art concepts were Melissa’s ideas, and she did the graphics/design work for all of them too. We all offered our own input, but she was definitely the leader of that department. For 3 I think she just really liked the idea of showing who we were, with simple and artistic photographs. Tammy Rae Carland was always instrumental in helping us with our presentation and took all the photos for our first three records.

AE: Did you always intend to stay together as long as you did or did it just happen that way?

KW: Yeah, it more just happened that way. Melissa always felt that longevity was meaningful for a bands success, but I always felt like I just wanted to keep doing it because it was a positive part of my life. We got along so well as people and musicians, so why stop?

AE: Why did the band end, and is there hope of an album producing reunion?

KW: We threw in the towel because we felt we had really just run our course. For our fourth and final record Make Yr Life, we financed our own recording, hired a manager, and did everything we could to try to gain a wider audience and have great financial success through our music. We had an amazing last year but just felt like what we were doing and experiencing in the band was starting to feel a little static, like we had extended our potential, at least at that moment. We have no plans to make a new record but that sounds fun! I would do it!

AE: How did you end up playing with Amy Ray? What was that experience like?

KW: When Mr. Lady Records started up in 1997, Slim from Kill Rock Stars passed Amy Ray’s Daemon Records info onto us for networking purposes. So, I wrote Amy a letter and sent her a Mr. Lady care package with the Butchies, Kaia and Le Tigre records. She was a big fan of Team Dresch and was excited to make the connection.

We supported each other’s politically minded Southern based indie labels, and she became a fan of the Butchies, coming to see us play when we toured and hit Atlanta. She eventually just asked us to collaborate on some songs for her first solo record Stag. After that experience of practicing, collaborating and eventually touring on that record, we became super solid friends and comrades. For me, getting to collaborate with Amy, and doing several shows opening for Indigo Girls, was a huge deal and full circle experience. I had been a big fan of Indigo Girls since 1988, when I heard “Closer to Fine” on the radio. I started to see them in Eugene, OR all through my high school years. So I did, and continue to, feel honored and grateful to have established a working relationship and friendship with her.

 

AE: Why did you and Tammy Rae Carland create Mr. Lady Records? What happened with that?

KW: We created Mr. Lady for two main reasons: to release our own music/video projects and to provide an independent label that would promote queer/feminist visibility, release records by artists who promoted similar political convictions, and to include video art into a place where it would be more accessible and widely distributed. Tammy Rae and I were partners and when our personal relationship split up, the label pretty quickly ended after that.

AE: Your solo records don’t sound very much like your work with either of your bands. Is that something you do on purpose? Or is it just what happens when you pick up your guitar and start playing?

KW: I think my solo work just represents a different side of my songwriting. I began writing songs on guitar when I was 15, and eventually gravitated towards loud, collaborative “punk” music too, but never lost my need to compose tender melodies. I write 99.9% of my songs first on acoustic guitar anyway.

AE: Do you ever write songs knowing they were “band” or “solo” songs?

KW: Generally it’s pretty obvious when I start writing a song if it will be better suited to be played with a band or more stripped down and acoustic.

AE: The back of your first solo album reads, “Finally a dyke album for the whole family.” Why did you use that? Was it a political statement or just meant to be funny?

KW: It’s both – a political statement that’s meant to be funny! It was sorta meant to be sarcastic but playful.

AE: When you first started playing music, did you ever have any doubts about being as open about being a lesbian as you’ve been? Did you ever at any point think things might be easier if you didn’t? For instance, after what fans call “The Lesbionic Story” happened?

KW: I never had any doubts about being out and visible as a queer musician. I think it very well could have been “easier” for me to be closeted. I probably could have had a wider appeal to more people, but I always felt that anyone who would feel excluded from any of the music I was part of was doing that to themselves. I made/make music for everyone. I just happen to be a lesbian, who has seen and continues to see the need for positive queer visibility in music (and everywhere!).

AE: How have things changed since you started playing? Would you still go into music if you were coming to the age you were then now?

KW: Ooooh, well, things have changed a lot since I started playing. Lots more girls and women are in bands, performing, and doing their thing. I have seen some resistance from people to wanting to be labeled a “feminist” or be out as queer, and there are rock and roll camps for girls popping up everywhere now, and Ladyfests. The list goes on. I think it’s getting better all in all. Yes, I would still go into music. I’m a lifer.

AE: And as far as change goes, how have things changed for the LGBT community, at least in your experience? I’m from a whole other generation, and there are times when I’m frustrated with what I see as a lack of progress, but that’s not necessarily the case is it?

KW: I think it’s two steps forward, one step back, within any major political momentum moment, such as what happened in the early/mid 90’s with the Riot Grrrl and Queercore scenes. So I think we still have a long ways to go, and the more people who live their lives outspoken on behalf of resisting homophobia, racism, sexism, classism, etc. the better. I would like to see a fresh new generation of people really come together to fight for revolution!

AE: Do you ever think you’ve had a hand in improving the world as far as awareness of LGBT issues goes?

KW: Yes, I’ve been told this many times by people.

AE: Or just as far as individual lives goes?

KW: The whole is only as great as the sum of its parts. I think the influence my music (and the artwork and live performance and communication beyond song, such as in interviews) has had on people starts at an individual level then extends into individual communities and eventually becomes part of the world spectrum around LGBT issues.

AE: For instance, I got into Team Dresch the summer before my junior year of high school and then got into The Butchies along with a whole list of other bands, and those were two of the bands that still stand out for me. I didn’t grow up in the kind of environment where it was okay to be gay or trans or anything out not perceived as “normal,” and one of things that helped me get through a lot was having bands like those I could hear. So, that might have seemed random, but the point I was hoping to make was there has been a definite positive influence for at least one person. I actually went out and found a copy of the book Rubyfruit Jungle because it was mentioned in a song.

KW: Right. And I too grew up in Springfield, OR a rural and homophobic environment. I felt isolated and alone and struggled, especially in junior high and into the first year of high school until I got my hands on alternative, underground music and zines. Basically, The Cure led me to The Smiths who led me to Phranc … and the list goes on. When you have no access to positive gay visibility and role models, once you find some, it’s like you were starving and you finally found delicious food. I love that you bought Rubyfruit Jungle!

AE: How did you get involved in the Gay Games?

KW: Well I got into ping pong, like, heavily into it, competitively, and someone said I should compete at the Gay Games. I researched it and then decided to make it a goal.

AE: Is it something you’re going to do again?

KW: I had an incredible time on so many levels. It was sweeeeet to go to Germany, and I did a solo tour before the Gay Games started, which was amazing. I loved meeting and competing with international queers! I loved the sense of community and the level of serious training people had done to prepare for their sport. The gay table tennis nerds are pretty much the same as any table tennis nerds anywhere! And I have a ping pong blog if you’d like to check it out: spinslayer.com

More information about Kaia’s albums, including her 2008 release Godmakesmonkeys, her ping pong career, and activism can be found at spinslayer.com or daemonrecords.com

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