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The AfterEllen Bisexuality Roundtable (Part 1): Real Talk About Stereotypes and Misconceptions

At AfterEllen, our amazing writing staff comes from various professional backgrounds, upbringings, ethnicities and sexual identities. Some of us identify as lesbian, while others are proudly bisexual and queer. Each and everyone one of our writers puts their heart and soul into the articles you read, which is one of the reasons we wanted to have a frank, candid talk about bisexuality. What we’ve noticed is that on pieces that feature bisexual women, or bi characters, the comments section becomes quite heated. Add to that the data from a recent study that shows that bisexual women are more likely to “experience poor mental health and mental distress than lesbians,” suffer from eating disorders, self harm and depression. The stigma that the bisexual women in our community face is real, and cannot, and should not be ignored. We asked our bisexual identified writers Anna Pulley, Eboni Rafus, Ali Davis, Chelsea Steiner and Miranda Meyer to talk about their experiences as bisexual women, and the stigmas they face. The discussion was led by lesbian identified Staff Editor Dana Piccoli.

Dana Piccoli: When did you first know you were bisexual?

Anna Pulley: Around 20. I had been straight up until that point, and then, like, developed a huge crush on a girl, but certainly didn’t feel myself like being 100% gay and I certainly got a hell of a lot gayer after that. Yeah. So it was around 20. You know, college-the experimental college days.

Eboni Rafus: I was an even later bloomer. I always knew that I thought other girls were pretty or there was some sort of attraction there, but I don’t think I realized that that was romantic or sexual attraction. I was always, like, best friends with the most popular and most beautiful girl in school, and all the guys had crushes on her. I think it took me a while to realize that that was probably a crush as well-how I felt towards her. I didn’t come out as bisexual until I was 30. I’m 37 now. Yeah. Well, I thought that I might be in college, but I just never got a real chance to like date a woman until I was 29, and then once I realized that, that was the case I came out that I was bisexual. I came out two months later.

Ali Davis: Definitely college, realizing it, but I felt like I was just dealing with the fact that I had a huge crush on a girl and I remember-like I had this moment where I was walking along across campus thinking like, “OK. So I’m in love with a girl. I guess I’m a lesbian now.” And then walking past the men’s soccer team practicing shirtless and being like, “Ah. What am I then?” So, figuring it out probably, yeah, 20, but then probably not really dealing with it because it wasn’t a thing I wanted to be, and so probably 24 or 25 was when I was like, ‘This is what fits and that’s an OK thing.”

Chelsea Steiner: I don’t think I had the name for it, but in high school I definitely remember being attracted to women. But I came from a family that, while super liberal and gay-friendly, didn’t consider bisexuality “a thing.” I assumed that since I still liked guys, I was just “confused.” Ugh, I hate that word. It wasn’t until college when sexual fluidity joined the lexicon and I let myself be myself that I realized I was bi and it was OK.

Miranda Meyer: It’s kind of a weird drawn-out process. So I went around like kissing girls and had being madly and pathetically like constantly in love with this woman in college, and didn’t come to the conclusion that I was bi until, like, last year. I’m 25 now.

Dana: So, welcome!

Miranda: Thank you. For years and I’m not sure why. I think maybe because I had never-kind of similarly-just had a real opportunity to, like, explore it in a more serious way, so it was always, “Oh, that sort of thing just happens. Let’s not think about it.” And the, like-this is sort of hilariously millennial of me. I came across some post on Tumblr, actually, that was sort of giving a different definition of bisexuality than I had ever seen before. And I can hook this up for you later if you want or maybe, like, while other people are talking, but it made a point of being, like, that this person likes these definitions because it’s more inclusive-like it doesn’t have to be like you’re exactly 50/50 in your attraction. And I thought about it and I was like, “Well, I think that does apply to me. So OK then.” After that was sort of easy. So, yeah, it was a strangely kind of staggered process.

Dana: What do you think is the biggest misconception about bisexuals?

Anna: Oh, God. There’s so many. I think probably the biggest one is that people continue to think we don’t exist, especially with bisexual men. Bisexual women-they’re more just doing it to turn men on, or apparently out to break every lesbian’s heart because there seems to be kind of a personal vendetta. Like one bisexual hurts your feelings and then you’re just like, ‘That’s it. Fuck them all. I’m done. I don’t want to deal with these people anymore.” So, but yeah, probably the existence thing. It’s still sort of considered a phase or an indecisiveness, or like the stepping stone to your true orientation. And also that if your partner is monogamous, stay with one gender, that your bisexuality is erased-that you don’t have that desire anymore.

Eboni: Yeah. I agree with everything that Anna said, but also the idea that you can only be satisfied dating one gender or the other. So, if I’m dating a woman then I’m obviously going to cheat on her because I just need to be with a man as well, and vice versa. And basically what it comes down to for me is that people think of my sexuality as who I’m dating, not that it’s innate, and that’s a part of who I am, but based on who I’m with at the time. So when I’m with a woman, people assume I’m a lesbian. If I’m with a man, people assume I’m straight. And if I’m dating a man and then I date a woman, then all of a sudden I’ve turned lesbian and if I’m dating a woman and then we break up and I’m dating a man it’s like I’m a hasbian, not a lesbian. So it’s just my sexuality is just based on whoever I’m with, not based on my own sexual attractions, and that’s part of my identity.

Ali: Yeah. I would echo both these fine ladies. Yeah. It’s the misconception that if you’re bi you’re always looking for something else or that you have to be actively bisexual and dating multiple people or you somehow checked out of it, and then that in turn leads to an idea that’s temporary. Like I even have a second cousin who is a gay man and he was weird about me, like he thanked me for going to an anti-Prop 8 rally once, and I was like, “Well, it affects me, too.” And he’s like, “Well, no, because you’ll just end up with a man, right?” I was just like, “You’re supposed to know better.” And that’s saying of like it’s the thing you do for a while and then you either realize you’re a lesbian or you pretend your straight, or whatever the-there’s no legitimacy to it. You can always move the goal post so that it’s not a real thing.

Dana: [laughs] I like the moving the goal post analogy.

Chelsea: I think that everyone assumes we’re slutty, indecisive cheaters! What’s frustrating is that no matter who you end up with, that partner becomes your default signifier. Now that I’m in a long term relationship with a man, everyone assumes I’m straight or that my dating women was some kind of phase. And on the other hand, if you end up with a woman, then you were “gay in denial.” We can’t win, y’all.

Miranda: Yeah. I mean I think everybody kind of covered most of the common ones. The thing I always think is interesting is I feel like they’re all sort of thematically connected by this idea like of flightiness. So if you’re greedy because you’re never going to settle down, you’re never going to pick someone, but at the same time that same flightiness is the reason that like your orientation isn’t real because it’s just you doing whatever you want, which is why, in turn, you’re then going to, like, pick a side or the other, and it all going to go away and it was just a phase. So, which all kind of ties into this idea of, like, it’s not a real thing.

Dana: Do you feel accepted by the lesbian community?

Anna: I mean, yes and no. I feel like in San Francisco, like in the Bay Area, you sort of can’t be bisexual. You have to be queer because you’ll offend people or people won’t want to date you if you try to openly identify as bisexual, at least in the dating arena. But I mean, all my friends are bisexual in some respects like regardless of whether they chose that label or not. They’re all fucking many people of different genders and having a great time. And so, in that sense, it’s like there a lot of openness about fluidity, but I’m also, like, in a long-term partnership with a woman and so people see me as a lesbian and they don’t question or ask about my identity. It’s just when I start writing about it that people address it in the comments.

Eboni: Not really. I think that-I’m also in a relationship with a woman now and I was previously married to a woman, and so I try to be very open with the fact that I’m bisexual or pansexual-or that I’ve dated men or I might date men in the future, but nobody really has to deal with that because I’m with women. I’m with one woman, actually-one woman. So, they’re like, “Yeah, but you’re with a woman so basically you’re OK. We accept you.” What I worry about is heaven forbid-knock on wood-I break up with the woman I’m dating and then I start dating men or dating a man. Does that mean I’m kicked out of the club? I’m no longer allowed to write for AfterEllen. I’m no longer able to go to Dinah Shore. I mean it’s like all of these things that I worry about losing my community if I lose my relationship and start dating somebody of, you know?

Let me that add that I know a woman, she came out as gay, lesbian, and she lost part of her community, you know-her family disowned her. She lost a lot of friends because she was part of a religious community, and she and her ex-wife, they got married and she’s got a whole new community of queer people, and she worked for queer organizations. And then she and her wife got divorced and then she started dating a man and they moved in together and had a baby together, and then she lost of the queer community that she had built over the past 15 years. People felt like she was a traitor now that she was straight. And I look at her experience and it really scares me because I feel like, again, my sexuality is based on who I date and my community is only based on who I date, and if I were to date a man then I have to be part of the straight community and if I’m dating a woman then I’m OK to be part of the queer community, but I have friends who to this day-these are lesbians-who will say, “Oh, so and so is bisexual but she’s married to a man.” Like that but means she’s kind of in the club but she’s isn’t quite in the club because she has a heterosexual privilege so she doesn’t quite belong in the club.

Dana: Right. That must feel like shit.

Ali: Like I had a group of friends I was getting really close with her for a couple of years and then I had an evening where something happened and I’m like, “If I start dating a guy they will stop inviting me out.” And it was this, like, I’m going to lose not all of them, but a bunch of them, and it’s weird. And I actually left a dinner party once because I was the only bisexual there and it became this, “Oh, I would date a straight woman before I would do the bisexual thing.” And I was like, “Actually, I’m bi.” And everyone stopped the game. It was this weird-and someone actually said to me, “You should just say you’re a lesbian and people will be nicer to you and we won’t think you’re crazy.” It’s like, “OK. Time to go.” So yeah, it is a weird thing where you’re like, “Oh, these people are my close friends but only so far,” and I’ve never been worried honestly about my straight friends dropping me.

Dana: See, that, intrinsically, is a horrible thing, what you guys are saying to me. It breaks my heart because that’s just not OK. Like, I’m getting a little teary.

Ali: I think it’s more hurtful for me because I feel more marginalized by lesbians and gay men than I do by people who identify as straight, and I feel like if you are a lesbian, gay, trans, you understand what it’s like to be marginalized and you know what’s it’s like to be discriminated against, you understand what’s it’s like for people to be like, “I don’t understand how you date somebody of the same sex or the same gender.” They’ve dealt with that before. So the fact that they would turn abound and do that to bisexual people just makes it, like, worse in a way. I also kind of expect it from straight people, sadly, for them not to understand, but I feel like the most resistance and marginalization I’ve got are from people in the LGBT community. But I will say I feel like the marginalization happens to people who are least secure with themselves. Like I have made friends with cool straight people. I think there are certain areas I could go to where sure they would drop me, but like I think the lesbians that are now more and more secure in their identities don’t feel the need to push it to the side but the ones who are more insecure like setting that boundary as a way to get their own thing declared and then like you’re putting a circle around your orientation.

Chelsea: I’m lucky enough to have a wonderful network of queer and straight friends who accept me, but I’ve definitely felt discrimination from the lesbian community for being bi. There’s definitely a sense of, “Oh, you’re just a tourist here,” with some women. Weirdly, I know several women who have slept with/continue to sleep with men but still refuse the moniker of bisexual. People just really don’t like that word, I guess.

Dana: What about you Miranda? You’re fairly new to this whole thing.

Miranda: I’m sort of in a weird position because it hasn’t been that long since I’ve self-identified, but I mean, like, I’ve been sort of in action kind of longer than I have mentally or in a self-identified way. So in a way, I haven’t really had to deal with this so much. While I did identify as bisexual, I just moved around so many times and, like, my circumstances change a lot that I haven’t really been able to develop much of a community one way or another, queer or straight, aside from people who are long-term friends of mine. Those people were around when I hooked up with this girl in college. They don’t care. Most of them are straight. And a lot of my friends in high school, college, have like come out as bisexual in the last few years and so, like, that’s all kind of comfortable. So I haven’t really had to like deal with this yet, but it’s something I worry about for sure. I’m in this weird position where I never had like a formal sort of coming out.

Dana: Well, you’re doing it right now. Here you go. And she’s wearing a flannel shirt you guys.

Eboni: In true millennial style.

Miranda: No, but like I wouldn’t say that it’s something that I try to hide either. I sort of just let it be. And so, like, I just started this new graduate program and I’m meeting all these new people, and I see myself-I’ve sort of observed myself modulating the way I speak about things depending on like who I’m talking to and how I think they might react, but I haven’t really had to like come up against this yet, but it’s something I’ve heard a lot of these stories and it’s definitely something I was worried about because I want to have queer community. Even when I was identifying as straight, I certainly had queer friends and like hanging out with them and really enjoy especially being around queer women, and so that’s something I want in my life, but it’s something that I’m sort of afraid to seek out because I’m afraid of that rejection, which is I think a real shame.

Dana: Yes. It’s absolutely a shame.

Check back on Monday for part two of this conversation where we discuss dating while bisexual.

We want to encourage you to add your voice to the discussion. Do the experiences of our writers echo your own? Have their words moved you, or perhaps caused you to think differently? We want to know.

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