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Pat Benatar vs. the Go-Go’s

On the night of Saturday, April 5, the thousands of women who flock to this year’s Dinah Shore parties in Palm Springs, Calif., will have two concerts to choose from: Pat Benatar will be headlining the Club Skirts’ party at the Doral Hotel, while the Go-Go’s will be playing at Girl Bar’s Mardi Gras Masquerade at the Palm Springs Convention Center.

For lesbian/bi partygoers, it’s going to be a tough choice to make. So AfterEllen.com talked with both Pat Benatar and the Go-Go’s out bisexual guitarist/songwriter, Jane Wiedlin, about their musical careers, what they’re looking forward to at Dinah Shore, and the ’80s.

Which one is the lesbian icon? It’s up to you to decide.

Interview With Pat Benatar By Dara Nai

In 1979, a diminutive singer from New York named Pat Benatar released a pounding single called “Heartbreaker” from her debut album, In the Heat of the Night. “Heartbreaker” was an instant hit and became Benatar’s dream-maker; In the Heat of the Night ended up being the seventh biggest selling album of 1980.

To date, Benatar has won a record-breaking four consecutive Grammys for Best Female Rock Vocal, had six albums go platinum, released multiple greatest hits compilations and continues to remind us that women kick some major rock-and-roll ass. Even if they are only five feet tall.

Benatar will perform her first-ever Club Skirts concert at Dinah Shore this year. Does playing at the biggest lesbian event of the year automatically make her a lesbian icon? Maybe, maybe not. But her impact on other female performers is undeniable.

During her blink-and-you-missed-it shows at the first Lilith Fair, her audience included the other female musicians and singers who clamored to hear the rock star’s amazing vocals.

Recalling that appearance, Benatar later told Pennsylvania’s Electric City: “I got to spend time with 12 of the newer females coming up. You know, history being history, everything that comes before has some impact on what follows, but you never really know how much. But hanging around with them backstage, I started to realize what kind of impact I had had, so it was fun.”

Recently, I asked Benatar about the set she’ll be performing at Dinah Shore, what she listens to in her car, and how it feels to have her songs on Guitar Hero.

AfterEllen.com: This is your first time doing the Dinah. Pat Benatar:Yes, it is.

AE: Do you have any idea what to expect? PB: [Laughs] Well, no, not exactly. I’m expecting a raucous, rocking crowd. That’s what I’m hoping for.

AE: That’s what you’re going to get. PB: That’s great.

AE: Your show in Palm Springs is the first part of a larger, summer tour? PB: Yes, this is the preliminary part of the summer tour. [The tour is] national and goes through September. The body of it starts in June, but [Palm Springs] is the warm-up, pre-tour event.

AE: What are we going to be hearing? PB: It’s a pretty mixed set. I mean, we try to cover most of the decades [laughs]. The classic hits are in there, and we have an acoustic set, which is really lovely – four or five songs we’ve taken and play them acoustically – everyone seems to really enjoy that. And then, some new things that we have coming out.

AE: It’s been almost three decades since you started in the music industry, so you’ve seen it all. What do you think of today’s celebrity train wrecks? PB: I don’t know. I think sometimes, it’s the noisiest ones. You know what I mean? The ones that are having issues are noisy. There was always stuff going on – for certain when I was out there. It wasn’t easier when I began in ’79, but the world wasn’t the same. Everything goes now, [but] it happens on both ends.

There are people that are performing who actually want to be hassled all the time; it’s part of their thing. And, also, the people who are doing the hassling think that’s part of their job description as well. [It] wasn’t this intrusive [back then]. The world has gotten really small, and I think the level of respect for people’s privacy and personal lives is just nonexistent now.

AE: Can you imagine having that level of scrutiny in 1979? PB: No. I would have quit. I’m a private person. There would have been no way I could have handled any of that. Either that, or I would have been in jail for fist fights, so … [laughs]

AE: Literally, “Put up your dukes, let’s get down to it?” That’s not exactly model behavior for a trained opera singer. PB: I was only a student. I studied for eight years, and then I had to leave New York and traveled a bunch of places with my former husband. I never completed that part of my education, so I decided when I got back into singing that opera had moved on. It wasn’t exactly what I was interested in anymore. I started going in for rock and roll, which is what I really wanted to do.

AE: Are there any other genres you would like to record in? PB: In 1991, we did the True Love record, which was a blues record. We’ve always wanted to revisit that again, but you know, I’ve got two girls, and raising them took up so much time – there was never enough time. Spyder [Benatar’s husband and longtime collaborator, Neil “Spyder” Giraldo] and I have been talking about trying to do another record of that kind.

AE: What’s in your CD player? PB: I did musical theater most of my pre-professional life, so I still really love all that stuff, and swing music, things like that. [Spyder] can’t believe he’s married to someone who plays South Pacific in the car. Loud.

AE: A couple of weeks ago, I played “Hit Me With Your Best Shot” about 20 times on Guitar Hero. PB: [Laughs] It’s great to have that stuff out there.

AE: Do your daughters, Haley and Hana, think it’s rad their mom has tunes on Guitar Hero? PB: My daughters [are] always jamming in there, playing “Heartbreaker.” So, yeah, it’s fun. The kids love it.

AE: How do they feel about having a rock icon as a mother? PB: They’ve toured with us every summer since they’re infants. The only time it’s of any use to them is if they can get into a concert here, get backstage. Otherwise, it’s basically just a nuisance to them.

AE: Really? PB: Oh, sure! I mean, you’re just mom. Because it’s: “Mom, please. It’s about me.” You know what I mean? So, any time that removes [me] from them, they have no patience for that. And of course, they’re mortified about the previous wardrobe.

AE: Well, a lot of people are mortified about what they were wearing in the ’80s. Although, I’m hoping parachute pants make a comeback, frankly. PB: [Laughs] I might have to pass on that one.

AE: You were more into the spandex and headbands. PB:The kids are always pointing that out. “How did you get into those pants?”

AE: It’s amazing such a powerhouse voice was coming from such a little package. PB: Yeah, I was really tiny then. And the kids, they can’t believe it. All that stuff’s catalogued and put away, but they go through that sometimes.

AE: Is love still a battlefield, Pat? PB: Oh, it can be. I mean, Spyder and I have been married for 26 years, and he’s really great. But he knows he’s a pig-headed Sicilian. And I love him, but yeah, it could be.

Pat Benatar performs at Club Skirts’ Dinah Shore on Saturday, April 5, 2008. Buy tickets here.

Continue to our interview with Jane Wiedlin of the Go-Go’s.

Interview With Jane Wiedlin of the Go-Go’s By Teresa Ortega

The punk scene in Los Angeles famously gave birth to a number of bands that would help shape the sound of the ’80s. One of those groups was the all-female band called the Go-Go’s, which grabbed hold of the punk DIY ethic and didn’t let go until their first album, Beauty and the Beat, reached the top of the charts.

The Go-Go’s disbanded in 1985, but they reunited several times during the 1990s and released a new album in 2001. They have been touring somewhat regularly in the last couple of years and will make their Girl Bar Dinah Shore Week debut next month. Girl Bar Dinah Shore co-producers Sandy Sachs and Dr. Robin Gans predict that “this year’s Girl Bar Dinah Shore Week is going to be simply amazing,” and note that Go-Go’s lead singer Belinda Carlisle will also be performing solo on April 4.

I recently talked with Jane Wiedlin, the Go-Go’s rhythm guitarist and songwriter, about the band’s long relationship with the lesbian community, bisexuality and why she loves corsets.

AfterEllen.com: I was a fan of the Go-Go’s many, many years ago, before you guys were even signed. I once got kicked out of the Starwood club in Los Angeles for climbing onstage and swiping the rag Belinda used to wipe off her sweat during the concert. Jane Wiedlin:Wow. Oh my God, that show’s historical.

AE: And early on, I recall that Phranc, the lesbian folksinger, wrote a song about liking Charlotte, the band’s lead guitarist. So when did the Go-Go’s became aware of having lesbian followers or fans? JW:I think we always knew from the beginning. Our manager was lesbian, and our road crew was lesbian. Well, no – actually not all of them. One thing that was so great about the punk scene was that it was very inclusive, very welcoming, to any kind of person, but especially misfits. I think being a misfit was part of the personality profile that made a person attracted to punk.

AE: Some of your bandmates have talked about the Go-Go’s having female groupies in the past. How did the music industry feel about female groupies with an all-female band? Was that a warning sign for them, or did it just fly under the radar? JW:I think that was all totally under the radar. And the thing is, back when we got popular, in the ’80s I think it was kind of a different world. I believe that the world is still an extremely sexist place, but it was much more so back then.

I think that the idea of a man acting like a groupie was pretty much unthinkable at that time. So we didn’t get a lot of guys coming backstage and coming on to us.

And I think another factor was the five of us together were such an intimidating presence that we scared the boys off. Women, lesbian fans – they wouldn’t be scared off by a pack of girls. So I think that’s part of the reason why it was more like that in the past.

Nowadays, I don’t know that we get any groupies at all. Every once in a while I hear people calling us MILFs. We like to call ourselves GILFs, because we think it’s funny or whatever. We don’t take it seriously. The whole groupie thing doesn’t really exist so much anymore. Now it’s more like people showing up with their kids.

To me – and to all the girls – one of the most rewarding parts about still making music 30 years later is that we see women bringing their daughters. And the daughters seeing for the first time women playing instruments and rocking out, and the idea that’s it’s OK for a woman to do that. Because I still don’t think that there’s enough role models for girls.

AE: As a group, you had a really interesting image because there was a lot of girlie imagery, and then there was also this toughness and brashness about the band. Looking back at the image that was created around you or that you created, would you have changed it to be more one way or the other? Is there some other ingredient to the band’s image that I’m missing? JW:I think there was a certain smart factor to us, too. We obviously weren’t dumb. We wrote our own songs and our songs – some of them were fairly simple, but some of the songs were fairly sophisticated and had several meanings and hidden meanings. I think that was part of our image too. Girlie, but not pushovers, and smart or witty.

But the girlie thing – it’s easy in hindsight, and in fact I do it all the time – if I look at the female artists that came out in the ’90s and that are coming out now, and when the whole riot grrl thing started and women got very, very angry and very tough – I was so excited, and I know at that point that the Go-Go’s as trendsetters were considered pretty out of style, because at that point I think we sounded kind of quaint and kind of archaic because we were nice and we were girlie.

But it was like a completely different age. It’s like expecting a female suffragette trying to get the vote to have piercings. It was a different time from in the ’90s or now.

And I think now there’s a lot of female artists out there who are kind of back to exploring both sides. It’s almost passé to be this angry, pissed-off girl – it’s just not enough anymore, just like it’s not enough to be a sweetie pie, either. Women are just as complete creatures as men ever were, and we have just as many complicated and conflicting emotions and feelings and thoughts as men do, and to think otherwise is obviously bulls—. So that’s why I think we’re starting to get a healthy balance with the songwriters who are out there.

AE: What do you think of the present musical environment with the recording industry rethinking itself? Do you think it’s easier for artists or worse for artists? JW: Obviously there’s a lot of female artists out there, but it’s mostly solo art. And there’s still a big emphasis on sexuality. You get one Britney Spears and then everyone’s running around looking for the next one. I don’t think they’ve really changed their mind about looking for some sexy girl in a pretty package that can sing.

My disappointment is that things haven’t changed more in the area of musicians. People always say, “They’re out there, Jane, you just don’t know because you’re not going to the little clubs.” I’m not talking about little clubs. I’m talking about commercial, successful artists. Where are the multimillion-selling female bands or female musicians? There just aren’t that many out there.

And it kind of bugs me because it’s been 26 years since the Go-Go’s hit. You’d think things would have come a little bit further than they have.

AE: That’s true across some of the other arts as well. JW: Across life! The idea that people are still either baffled or strongly outraged or in disbelief that we could possibly have a woman president – it’s ridiculous! We’re more than half the population.

I’m impatient for things to be more equitable and for all this sexism to be put behind us, because it just makes no sense. It’s not based in any fact. It’s typical. “The men rule.” And they rule by brute strength. I don’t know – it kind of pisses me off.

AE: I want to ask you about being bisexual. You’ve stated that in the past – although I know you’re in a committed relationship now. Have you noticed any changes in attitudes towards bisexuality over the years? JW: I think stating yourself as a bisexual is kind of a tricky path to follow, because most people are wired strongly one way or the other. And not just heteros. There’s a lot resentment in the lesbian community towards bisexual women, that they’re just namby-pamby or whatever, in the closet.

I’ve just never been the kind of person that’s like totally black or white. I mean in many strange ways, too – I’m ambidextrous; I’m left-handed, but I do almost everything right-handed except I write left-handed – weird things like that I’ve noticed my whole life. You can’t really pin me down, and I feel that way about my sexuality, too. I have had mostly male relationships, but I love women and I’ve had relationships with women, and I think they’re great.

I don’t see anything wrong with the way I feel. To me, it kind of goes along the lines of being an inclusive person rather than an exclusive person.

The whole bisexuality thing, I feel like it’s always sort of scorned upon by many in the gay and lesbian community. It’s treated as sort of a sexual titillation by heterosexual men, and most women – I feel like most women – maybe I’m wrong and maybe I’m just living in my own fantasy land – but all the women I know who even consider themselves straight – almost all of them have had experiences with women. I don’t think it’s unusual.

I kinda was like, you really want to make this big statement about being bisexual? Because it isn’t something I walk around thinking about all the time. Well, if you’ve had sex with women, and you had sex with men, pretty much people would say you’re bisexual, so why don’t you just call it like it is, rather than being vague? So that’s why I say that.

AE: There’s a Mardi Gras theme for the party you’ll be playing at Dinah Shore. Do you have any special costumes in mind for the show? JW:No. When it comes to dressing onstage, we’re pretty much into just comfort. I can guarantee there will be no costumes.

AE: I’ve read that you have an interest in wearing tight corsets. Any chance you’ll wear ÔÇò ? JW: Yes, I love corsets! I’ve been part of the fetish community – kind of came out as a perv about, God, I guess it’s like 12 years now. One of my favorite things is corsetting. I love the way it looks. I love the hourglass shape that it makes a woman. I think it is really a beautiful thing.

As it is a self-imposed thing, I don’t think it’s – I know politically some people are like, “It’s just another thing for a man to keep a woman down.” I don’t really see it that way. I think you do it to yourself because it’s fun and you think it looks good. If you’re wired that way, it’s sexy; if you’re not wired that way, I guess you wouldn’t think it was [laughs].

AE: What should the audience expect from the Go-Go’s at Dinah Shore? JW: Obviously it’s a huge party weekend, celebrating all things woman. And what’s more womanly than the Go-Go’s? I think that we’re all going to have a great, great time. We’ve always been very supportive and very connected to the gay and lesbian communities. So I’m just expecting a big party when we play.

We’ll be playing all our hits, and some little extra tidbit hits that people won’t have heard from us before. We rock really hard live, and people who may have only heard our old records – they might think that we’re a little more on the wimpy side – when they hear us live we’re definitely going to blow their minds.

The Go-Go’s perform at Girl Bar Dinah Shore on Saturday, April 5, 2008. Buy tickets here.

Go back to our interview with Pat Benatar.

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