While her characters banter wittily like Amy and Tina and or Abbi and Ilana, writer/director/actress Ingrid Jungermann also creates her own quiet power. The slow burn rebelliousness of her hero oozes humorously to the surface in silences, clipped asides, darting glances and restless limbs. This winning combination of boldness and discomfort is both identifiable and amusing, because it’s basically the way we all feel at parties. It’s like a cat on a leash.
Ingrid’s two comedic web series, The Slope and F to the 7th, follow a fictionalized version of herself as she navigates girlfriends, queer norms, pets, and strap-ons in Brooklyn. Featuring a spectacular array of guest stars, including Amy Sedaris, Janeane Garofalo and Gaby Hoffmann, F to the 7th is headed for more notoriety after landing a Showtime development deal this spring. Ingrid’s debut feature film Women Who Kill, which won awards at the Tribeca Film Festival and Outfest this summer, deftly mixes the flurry of a sexy new relationship with sharp humor and serial thrills. But beware: it may convince you that your girlfriend is up to no good.
Photo by Astrid Stawiarz/Getty Images for Tribeca Film Festival
AfterEllen.com: Your film is a rare blend of genres, both for mainstream film and for queer cinema in particular. It’s not a pure romance, and it’s not a coming-of-age film. There’s no “gaygnst” (gay angst).
Ingrid Jungermann: I recognize that I wouldn’t be able to make the kind of films that I want to make without the people before me that have broken ground as far as making coming-of-age films. Queer cinema before me is the only reason I’m able to do what I do.
That said, I do have a little bit of frustration with us continuing to make films that are like that, because I think we can push past that. And I just want to see good stories and great characters and complexity and nuance, and I think that’s what interests me, that’s what interests other people, and I definitely think about audiences when I write. I think about audiences with whatever I make; I think that’s my job. So that was the intent, to make a movie with a good story and nuanced characters. That became Women Who Kill.
AE: Were you conscious of pushing genre boundaries with the film? Was that a goal?
IJ: Yeah, I’m innately interested in genre. I think why I like to do comedy and genre is because in both types of films you can kind of tell secrets and get really personal in a way that doesn’t exclude the audience. I feel like you can bury it in the genre. And with comedy, it’s the most inclusive. You’re asking an audience to laugh along with you. There’s something about those two forms that attract me because I feel that you can talk about real things in a creative way. I really don’t have any interest in doing straight drama, because I think it’s not as complicated to me. And I like to complicate things. As a writer, I want to push myself.
AE: Women Who Kill has a fabulous cast. What was the orientation and dynamic of your cast?
IJ: Diversity means a lot to me, and I think it’s just kind of a queer cast. There’s some people who identify as heterosexual, bisexual or lesbian. For me, that is just kind of a queer ensemble.
via Getty
AE: What has working with women, and especially queer women, brought to your projects?
IJ: I always just write for women. And it’s in no way anti-man. It’s just that women inspire me. I find them to be very layered and I just always write for women, and I will continue to do so. Just because I’m not moved by the idea of a male character. I’m just not. I probably wouldn’t have said that a couple years ago, but I think now I just don’t give a shit anymore. It’s just not something that interests me. I’m just interested in female characters. Everything I’m working on right now is pretty much all female.
AE: It’s not like there’s too much of that content around.
IJ: Yeah, exactly. Guys have plenty of stuff that represents them, and I want to represent people that are underrepresented. And it’s both political and because it’s just what I’m interested in.
AE: For your Showtime series in development, you’re working alongside queer women Jamie Babbit (But I’m a Cheerleader) and Karey Dornetto (Portlandia). How did you come together for this?
IJ: They’re a dream team. They’re so generous and so smart and so collaborative. It just gives me hope in the industry to work with people like that. They’re very kind, and they’re very open. How that happened was Michael Showalter I knew in NYU Grad; he was one of my professors. And he and I worked on The Slope together; he was in one of the episodes. And we just kept in touch. And he really loved F to the 7th and he was like, “We should totally pitch this show.” It took awhile to come together, but then once we decided to do it, he was like, “Look, you need other people to make this show with.” He recognized he’s a straight white male. So he introduced me to Jamie and Karey, and he thought we’d be a really great match. We Skyped and right away hit it off. So it was very easy from the beginning. They recognize that I’m the creator of the show, but they have so much experience, and they’re so creative that it only makes the show better. So I feel pretty lucky to have them on the team. I’m very inspired by them.
AE: In The Slope and Women Who Kill, you play a lesbian who has relationships with bisexual women. We don’t see a lot of that. What drew you to that dynamic?
IJ: It really pulls from my life. It’s not like I set out to date bisexual women, but it seems to be who I end up dating: Desiree [Akhavan, co-creator of The Slope]-she was bisexual, my last girlfriend, identifies as queer. I think it might be because I feel like a mix of genders, and I’m drawn to the opposite version of that, which tends to be bisexual/queer women. It just sort of happens that I date people who are more open as far as sexuality and so that finds itself into my work.
But I do agree-I also feel like bisexuality is sort of not talked about, or it’s joked about, and people don’t really take it seriously. I’m always very surprised and confused by the LGBT community and straight communities that don’t take bisexuals seriously, because I think it’s far more common than people think it is.
AE: It’s such a hot-button topic.
IJ: Yeah, I’m like why is that a hot-button topic? I do think more bisexuals should come out as bisexual and just say it without being ashamed, because I think the more people that come out as bisexual, the less it would be taken as a joke.
AE: Your brand of humor pushes the envelope and is wonderfully self-deprecating. When did you first find humor in your queer identity or in the queer community?
IJ: I’ve been making shorts since I was in my mid-20s. I’ve always been drawn to comedy and then it just got darker and darker. I think it was probably always back there; it was kind of always queer-type films. And I mean queer in content, just kind of off a little. And I’ve just always felt outside of any group. Even though I came out when I was 17 or 18 as a lesbian, I’ve always felt like outside of everything. So I think feeling like that was kind of what started Desiree and I talking about The Slope. It’s like, how do we really feel about being queer and all these things that-I’m sure you’ve heard them too-these kinds of conversations that happen within the queer community that we’re not allowed to talk about really, because it means we’re less queer, or it means something ridiculous. So I wanted to talk about all the things that I was embarrassed about, in the hopes that if we can talk about these things and laugh about them, we feel less boxed in by our own sexuality and gender.
AE: What was it like growing up in Florida and coming out there as well? My girlfriend is from there and got out as soon as she could.
IJ: Me too. I didn’t come out there. I think everybody else knew I was gay. As soon as I went to college, I was like, “Oh, gay people.” There was not a community where I was. We all made fun of gay people, including myself. So it wasn’t okay; it wasn’t a thing. I also grew up until age eight as a Jehovah’s Witness; unfortunately, I had that sort of God thing happening where I felt like the feelings I had as a teenager were wrong, that I was going to Hell for it.
And so I think it just took me a little while to like myself, and then once I got to college-and I went to college in North Carolina-I just met this friend group immediately and the world sort of opened up to me. So being in Florida, and where I was, specifically, was definitely not a place where you could be who you were. It was a cool place to grow up as a kid because you can play outdoors. It’s a good life for a kid, but not for anyone who’s kind of different when it comes to sexuality and gender.
AE: Your series and film are all set in the same neighborhood of Park Slope, Brooklyn. What is unique about that setting and its queer community?
IJ: Park Slope could be any gentrification, which is happening anywhere. So I think that’s why even though it feels specific, it’s also very universal. And I think what’s interesting about Park Slope is that it’s very-no matter if there’s gay families or straight families-heteronormative. It’s the traditional, “This is how marriages look” and “This is how families look,” on both sides. So being a person living there that also doesn’t want a family-it was another way, I was like, “Jesus, how many things can I feel like an outsider about.” So it’s very easy to satirize a place like Park Slope. I love it; it’s a beautiful place, and the park is amazing, and it’s a good life there, but it’s very white and very traditional as far as the family setup.
Photo by Astrid Stawiarz/Getty Images
AE: What’s next for you?
IJ: The thing you learn is you cannot wait on anything to happen because there’s always a very slim chance that projects move forward. So while I’m waiting on Showtime, I’m working on another web series that I’m excited about, and I’m working on a feature film and trying to have a bunch of different projects going. I understand that these things take forever; I just want to continue to work. I’m really happy to work in short form or feature or TV.
AE: Is there any kind of new territory or boundaries that you’re excited about pushing next?
IJ: I’m interested in taking Hollywood formulas, which I kind of did with Women Who Kill. It’s structured like a romantic comedy, but I just added my twist to it. So what I like doing is taking a set of rules that work for a reason and then subverting them. I like to show people something that they might not watch and tease them in with something that feels very familiar and then introduce a new idea. Ultimately, I really want to change things.
AE: What are you excited about right now?
IJ: Season 2 of Unreal. [laughs] I’m obsessed with that show. Oh my God, I love that fucking show.
I’m excited about what’s happening in the industry. I think things are changing really rapidly for people of color and for queer people. It’s an exciting time. It’s a difficult time, but it’s very exciting.
