Grammy-winning duo Amy Ray and Emily Saliers have been playing music together as the Indigo Girls for the last two decades. Their newest album, Staring Down the Brilliant Dream, is an impressive two-disc CD featuring 31 hand-picked songs ranging from classics like “Closer to Fine” to new songs recorded during a three year period of hardcore touring. Produced by the Indigo Girls with the help of soundman Brian Speiser, the album includes a comprehensive booklet with photos and Amy and Emily’s personal reflections on the selected songs.
We recently spoke with Amy about Staring Down the Brilliant Dream, Lilith Fair and why Johnny Depp in drag would play her if they ever made a film about the Indigo Girls.
AfterEllen.com: The new album is titled Staring Down the Brilliant Dream and features new songs and songs that span the last two decades that you and Emily Saliers have been playing together. When you first started out, what did you dream would come of the Indigo Girls?
Amy Ray: It’s funny because we didn’t really think long term when we first started. We were so young. We looked at it as one day at a time. You know, maybe next week we can go play at that place or record some stuff. [We had] very small goals. We were caught up in the fun of it. When you’re kids, everything seems immortal. My feeling was that I couldn’t live without [playing music], but I didn’t have a vision of how I could make that happen. I think both of us just felt that it was really fun and we were excited. It felt magical. We felt lucky to be singing, going to bars, getting out and just playing.
AE: The recordings on the new album come from three years of touring. How did you decide which songs to pick?
AR: We had three levels of criteria. The first thing we did was just comb through everything. It didn’t matter the song, the album or the configuration. We just found things that we thought were good and that narrowed it down to probably a couple of hundred songs. Once we had the song that we liked, we narrowed it down to the best version. We just kept whittling down. Finally we looked at spreading it out among records that we’ve put out since the last live record, among who wrote the songs, and then band versions versus acoustic versions.
A lot times we would have two to three of the same songs and it would come down to an emotional response rather than a technical response. Maybe one was a little bit better but there was nothing emotional about the audience that night or the energy we had. We spent about four months on that process. Our soundman, Brian [Speiser] mixed the record. He had multi-tracked for three years all of our shows and he had all of our drives. It was laborious and humbling. There’s a lot of stuff in there that’s just not good. I mean, live maybe it was fun and everything, but when we listen to it on recording, it’s like, “Wow, that was really off tune.” [Laughs] So we had to get through that part of it, which was hard.
AE: You’ve said, “When I listen to a live CD, I want to be able to hear some shining moment that’s unique and has a different feel to it than the studio version, something that brings you closer.” Is there a particular “shinning moment” on this album for you?
AR: There’s a lot. I feel like we went through so many things to find as many shinning moments as we could. There are a lot things personally that just moved me. The moments where you could get through on passion and excitement because the audience is so supportive. There’s a song called “I Believe in Love” that we had a really hard time getting right. It’s a delicate song. It’s difficult. [There was] a moment for me and Emily when we first heard the version we used where we were like, “Wow, we really got it. I can’t believe we got it.” We just thought we’d screwed up every single night.
We did a version of the song “Cordova.” We never do that song because it’s so delicate and soft, but a couple of times I asked Emily to do a mandolin on it, too. We did it and it worked out so that was fun. We probably did that song in that way maybe three times. I just love the way [Emily] plays. Those were the kinds of moments that we tried to capture, where we knew it was something that a million people wouldn’t have [on a] bootleg. Our fans record and we wanted to give them something that they might not have all captured.
AE: One thing I love about the album is the enclosed booklet that’s filled with photos and personal notes from you and Emily about what you remember of that particular show and why you chose the song. In your notes for “Go,” you write, “I am consistently caught off guard by what Emily will summon out of her electric guitar and this night was no different.” It’s amazing that after twenty years you are still able to surprise and inspire each other so much.
AR: [Laughs] Yeah, that’s because we don’t spend a lot of time together. We live pretty separate lives. We don’t even live in the same town. So when we play together there are still moments like that. [Emily’s] kind of a wild card. She has a lot of different skills and the electric guitar is definitely one of them. People associate her and us so much with acoustic music and for me, even, to see her pick up an electric guitar is just mind-boggling because it’s not something that she does all of the time. But then she picks it up and just starts playing and it’s great.
AE: The Indigo Girls have a long history of collaborating with a variety of artists and there’s a range of guest vocalists on this live record – Michelle Malone, Brandi Carlile, Jill Hennessey. Who are some other artists you would like to work with?
AR: [One] artist is Anthony and the Johnsons. He’s quite amazing. I think he has two or three records out now. I would love to work with him. He’s got kind of this crazy high voice and he does really cool things with it. I would love to have someone like Andre from Outkast do a couple of remixes [of our songs].
AE: That would be incredible.
AR: Yeah, something where someone takes what you do and mixes it into something new.
AE: The Indigo Girls have covered some classic songs throughout the years, from “Romeo and Juliet” to this record’s renditions of Bob Dylan’s “Don’t Think Twice, It’s All Right” and the Rolling Stone’s “Wild Horses.” What are some songs you’d like to cover in the future?
AR: God, we haven’t really talked about that. I’d have to think about that. We usually take turns on these sorts of things and work with whomever we’re collaborating with or whose opening for us and we’ll do a song together. There are so many great songs. We did a cover of “Midnight Train to Georgia” and I really liked doing that. We haven’t done as much soul type stuff because it’s such a special category. I wouldn’t mind trying to tackle some R&B or soul songs in a way that’s respectful. Emily has a voice that really lends itself to that.
AE: Maybe you should cover an Outkast song.
AR: [Laughs] I wish. There are so many great ones.
AE: You’ll be performing at the Lilith Fair again this year. Soundcheck’s John Schaefer recently posted a piece on his website where he credits the original Lilith Fair for helping contemporary women artists like Lady Gaga, Alicia Keys and M.I.A “write their own story in the music biz.” How would you describe the state of contemporary women’s music?
AR: That’s a good question. It’s so hard to tell because the industry is so broken in so many ways. If anything, the people who are doing the best right now are the people who are very independent and are inventing their own way – on an industry level or someone who’s creative like Lady Gaga and has a vision. It’s hard to get through the muck with what’s going on economically. I think we’ve come a certain distance in a good way. Lilith really did help. Rock camp for girls helped. So many little things add up to give women more attention, more tools and access, so they are taken more seriously.
I think most of the gatekeepers are still stuck in their way and not letting the revolution happen – like DIY and women and gender barriers and race barriers coming down. Things are still pretty imaged. I’m waiting for that to start breaking apart because that’s when I think women will really start to be taken seriously.
Lady Gaga is amazing. I’m a big fan of hers. But then there are also women who are just playing punk rock, straight ahead punk rock. There are certain kinds of music, like country music or Top 40, where there are a lot of women who are doing really well. But it’s sort of on different terms, very image-oriented terms.
AE: In an interview with Schafer, Sarah McLachlan was asked whether we need another Lilith Fair and she answered, “Lilith Fair isn’t a need now, it’s a want.”
AR: Yeah, she’s [McLachlan] good. That was a good answer. I think it’s still a need, though. I mean, look at the festivals that we have and how many women artists are on those rosters and it’s not that many. It’s still a need if you look at that. But I think Sarah’s saying that because she feels that Lilith did make a lot of headway and the industry is making headway and she doesn’t want to be in the position of being a victim. It’s a stronger stance to say it’s a want but I don’t really agree with that. There’s a certain aspect that can be politicized, and that’s OK, but that’s hard to do with a big corporate festival.
AE: Speaking of image and country music, what do you think of Chely Wright’s recent coming out?
AR: I’ve met Chely a couple of times and I really like her. So I’ll just say that I like her as a person and I think she’s genuine. I think she got to a point where she said, “Screw it. I need to live my life.” But it’s pretty amazing.
The country world is a hard one. It’s interesting because so many queer people listen to country music. I live in a rural area and all the gay people I know [here], that’s all they listen to. It’s kind of a drag when they don’t feel comfortable at those shows and I think with Chely it’s going to start changing. It’s going to be slow, but still.
AE: Do you think it’s easier now for a musician to be openly gay then it was when you first began performing?
AR: Yes, definitely. It just is. And I don’t think it’s because radio is friendlier to gay people or something that, but culturally people in the country are becoming more aware. We have more allies and so we get braver about it.
When Emily and I were coming up, we were scared. It took us a while to figure out how to deal with that on our own – not like what should we say to the press, but more like how do we feel about ourselves and what do we want to be and should we just be who we are and that’s OK? Now the generations that are coming up, people in their teens and twenties and even younger, they don’t really care that much. Even the religious kids don’t care that much. They’re thinking about other things – not whether people are gay or not.
AE: Was there ever a time when you and Emily were asked to be closeted?
AR: Not by the label. They didn’t have to ask us. We were scared enough. I mean, we’re so out in our community, but it took us a while to be brave enough to talk about it. I do remember the [label] screening out gay interviews and I found out about it and it bummed me out. It really bummed me out. We talked to them and just said that these are important interviews and we want to do them so don’t screen them out. It changed after that.
I spoke with somebody I trusted at the label and they took it seriously so things started to shift. We started Honor the Earth in the early ’90s and were doing a lot of native activism and interestingly enough our queer activism revved up too. We were learning real grass root models from those activists and it helped us.
AE: I like the advocacy link on the Indigo Girls’ website that states, “This is the place to get you in gear to be a punk ass patriot and a happier human being.” Has advocacy always been a part of your music and life?
AR: It wasn’t something we thought about with our music as much as it was a part of our lives. In high school we were really involved in student government and from the very beginning we did little community benefits – very basic, like Meals on Wheels and [working with] people with HIV, small soup kitchen or homeless shelter projects. We built on that. As our world expanded, we expanded what we do and created an infrastructure for it.
AE: When you look back on the past two decades of writing and playing music, is there a song that you’re particularly proud of? A song that when you listen to it, you sit back and say, “I can’t believe I wrote that”?
AR: [Laughs] “Hum.”
AE: I read an interview where you talked about how when you began to write and perform music on your own it changed the way thought about composing and made you a more disciplined songwriter. I thought that was an interesting observation about how an artist continues to grow throughout their career.
AR: Yeah, the song “Sugar Tongue,” which is on the live record, is definitely a song I would say that about because it popped out, it stood out from my style and showed me that I was stretching. But it’s hard to have perspective about that kind of stuff.
AE: Well, this last question might also challenge you on perspective. If they were to make a film about the Indigo Girls, what actors do you think should play you and Emily?
AR: Oh wow. [Laughs] OK, I think Meryl Streep should play Emily. Ashley Judd, maybe.
AE: I like it.
AR: And I’d probably want a guy to play me because I think of myself as a guy so much more than a girl.
AE: OK, that’s allowed. What guy?
AR: I have no idea. [Laughs] I’m a big Johnny Depp fan so of course I’d have to say him. And if it had to be a woman – no, it’d have to be a guy, that much I can say – a guy in drag.
AE: Does he have to be in drag?
AR: Just a little drag.
AE: OK, Johnny Depp in just a little drag. You got it.
