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Interview with “Skins” writer Jack Thorne

If you caught the Naomily tidal wave outside of Britain, the name “Jack Thorne” probably means one thing to you: Cat Flap. And while the other accolades surely pale in comparison to the absolute mob of lesbian fans he earned himself when he co-wrote Naomi’s series three episode of Skins, Jack Thorne is also an award-winning playwright and screenwriter. His success reaches every storytelling medium, from television to theater to radio to film. He won the Best British Newcomer award at the Times BFI 53rd London Film Festival Awards last year for his movie The Scouting Book for Boys – and he’s currently working on a little project you may have heard of: Skins: The Movie.

He also has the reputation of being one of the nicest guys in The Industry – a claim I can now verify, as he quickly agreed to an interview when I asked and sat through hours and hours of questions. He handles praise – and I heaped plenty of it on him – with genuinely self-deprecating British charm; a ploy, I believe, because it only made me want to praise him more.

AfterEllen: I Tweeted and asked if anyone had any questions for you and the number one thing people want to know – behind “Will Naomi and Emily be in the Skins movie?” – is: Why is Jack Thorne so awesome? Want to take a crack at answering either one of those questions, just to get warmed up?

Jack Thorne: I will ignore both for different reasons. But thanks for making me blush.

AE: I read a BBC Writer’s Room interview where you said you lived off six grand a year for seven years, surviving on tomatoes and pasta, when you were starting out as a writer. Do you think being a writer is the best job in the world?

JT:I spend my life making s–t up. That’s an awesome way to make a living. As a kid I made s–t up a lot. But on my own, with dolls, in my room. Now I get to do it with real life people.

AE: You’ve written award-winning plays and films and television shows. What’s your favorite medium to write for?

JT: That’s a Sophie’s Choice of a question. And the truth is I don’t know. Sorry. I love radio, too.

AE: Did you know there’s a character in Jurassic Park, the novel, named Jack Thorne? He’s a super genius who works with actual dinosaurs. Do you still think your job is the best job in the world, or are you a little jealous of the other Jack Thorne?

JT: I’m seriously jealous of the other Jack. In fact, if I wasn’t a writer I’d work with dinosaurs. I’m gutted he never made the film.

AE: OK, let’s talk about Skins. How did you snag your gig on The Greatest Show of Our Time?

JT: Jamie [Brittain] saw my play at The Bush – called When You Cure Me – initially at a read-through. He liked it. He came to see it again when it was staged. He still liked it. He told his dad, [Bryan Elsley] to come and see it. Jamie came to the first preview, Bryan the second. Two months later, the first Skins writers’ room was us three sitting together. Three nerdy guys talking about a TV show about cool people.

AE: Everything you write about young adults – and you write quite a lot about young adults – is so emotionally authentic. I, um, legally obtained a download of The Scouting Book for Boys and sobbed the whole way through it. Austen, Dickens, Thackeray, Bronte: they all loved writing young adults, too. Why are you drawn to characters that age?

JT: I haven’t grown up yet. My old boss Pawel Pawlikowski was asked, when working on an amazing film called My Summer of Love, what he learned from his teenage actresses about being a teenage girl. He said, “I am far more of a teenage girl than they’ll ever be.”

AE: You wrote some of the most beloved episodes of the first two seasons of Skins. (And you put some of the characters through hell!) Do you have a favorite character and/or moment from the first generation?

JT: Chris was my favorite character, purely because I wrote his first episode. I think he’s the sort of guy who’s lonely in a crowd; I’m similar. My favorite moment was in series two, episode three – Sid’s episode – when Sid told Tony his dad was dead. It was beautifully written and directed and acted.

AE: And then generation two rolled around. Did you choose Naomi or did Naomi choose you?

JT: Bryan asked me to get involved – I’d left the show at the end of series two to do my own things like Scouting Book – because production deadlines were getting tight. Atiha [Sen Gupta, co-writer of Naomi’s episode] wrote the first four drafts; I wrote the last four. I did change quite a lot – added in characters and plot – but the tone of the episode is set by her. She’s a brilliant writer, now getting her plays on at places like the Hampstead.

AE: Whom do you relate to more: Naomi or Emily?

JT: I love Emily, but yes, I relate more to Naomi. I think she’s that strange mix of vulnerable and brave that I certainly felt like at her age. She’s also immensely selfish and casual with people – something I feel like now.

AE: My favorite thing about Naomi and Emily’s story is that it never feels like a “lesbian story.” There’s never a Very Special Episode or After School Special feel to anything about them, as individuals or as a couple. How did you approach the characters?

JT: I think a lot of the credit for that has to go to how the characters were conceived, how Jamie and Bryan judged the series, and particularly to Atiha. But in my head, what I think we all were trying to make is – it’s a love story about a girl who doesn’t want to be in love. The lesbian stuff isn’t the focus, that is.

AE: OK, can we talk episode specifics? A running theme in Naomi’s episode is that she keeps talking about how she can’t get any peace. Do you think that’s an internal thing or an external thing for her? Like, is she really upset that all these people are in her house or is she upset that Emily is f–king with her mind and she’s projecting it outward?

JT: That’s something for audiences to judge, I think. Maybe because I don’t know. One good thing about writing is a lot of it is about interpretation – and sometimes the audiences (you) are cleverer than the writer (me).

AE: Can you talk a little bit about the difference between Kieran and Emily? On the outside, Kieran seems much more emotionally threatening and Emily seems like the sweetest girl in the world. But Naomi reacts to them in the exact opposite way.

JT: Again, I think it’s something for the audience to judge. Though I actually like Kieran and think – certainly at that point – that he and Naomi had quite a lot in common. Both he and Emily are kindred souls – for her, I think – representing different aspects of her personality.

AE: Will you unpack that statement a little? “Kindred souls, representing different aspects of her personality?”

JT: He’s vulnerable, confused, very eloquent and clever, but flat-packed into a world that he finds sort of disappointing. He also doesn’t like himself very much. And Naomi doesn’t like herself very much, either.

AE: Do you think Cook is really into Naomi or is he just looking for a quick shag?

JT: Personally, I think Cook respects Naomi – and it’s an unusual feeling for him.

AE: One of my all-time favorite Naomi and Emily moments is when Naomi wakes up in the bed with Emily and reaches out to caress her hair. Was that a writing decision or a directing decision?

JT:I wrote it on paper. But [Lily Loveless and Kathryn Prescott] and director Simon realized it beautifully.

AE: What do you think is going through her mind in that moment?

JT: Hope? Confusion?

AE: When you watched the episode and you saw Naomi wake up with Emily’s name tattooed on her face, were you like, “Really nice touch, Jack Thorne?”

JT: I did like that bit. It looked even better than I had it in my head.

AE: One of my favorite things about Naomi’s episode is how all the dialogue between Naomi and Emily is layered, especially when they’re deciding to do blowbacks.

JT:Atiha wrote that. It’s awesome, isn’t it?

AE: I’ve heard people say that Emily is just a doormat in series three, but I think she’s the most courageous. And the first time we really get to witness that is when she wakes up at the lake and Naomi is leaving – when she marches up the hill and commands her to stop. Why do you think Emily chose that moment to take a stand?

JT: Because she’d been left in her bed twice. But just as courageous is the moment in Naomi’s bedroom where she says “My first thought is not ‘I want to f-ck that girl.'” Or something like that. But yeah, I like those lines – they’re what I wish a certain girl had said to me at a certain point. Writing as wish fulfillment.

AE: When Naomi goes home and has a breakdown in the shower, what do you think she’s feeling?

JT: What you think she’s feeling is far more important. Really.

AE: Naomi’s episode is one of the few times in series three we get to see Cook with a soul (after their failed shag). Why do you think he respects Naomi like he does?

JT:I don’t know. She looks at the world quite similarly; she has that same f-ck it attitude.

AE: In Skins world, there’s sort of a heightened sense of uselessness and absurdity when it comes to parents, but Naomi’s mum is brilliant. Why did you decide to go that route with her?

JT: I never really wrote many parents. For me, Gina – who was one of the characters I invented – is important because someone needs to give Naomi permission to change, and she does.

AE: OK, cat flap scene. Jack, everyone I have ever watched the cat flap scene with has cried like a baby. It is so beautiful and poignant and layered and perfect, perfect, perfect. Where in the hell did that come from?

JT: I didn’t want Emily to answer the door, and I had to work out something visual. We had a cat when I was growing up. He’d spend most of his life looking out of the clear plastic flap; he didn’t like the outside. I think that’s true for both girls at that moment.

AE: When you watched the episode, after having it only in your head for so long, what did you think? Was it how you imagined it?

JT:Better. Way better. Why? Performances. Locations. Direction.

AE: What do you think Naomi loves most about Emily?

JT: I don’t think she knows – that’s what makes it exciting.

AE: What do you think Emily loves most about Naomi?

JT:Her fierceness? Maybe? Are these things quantifiable? I think Emily is really simple – she thinks Naomi is awesome. In fact, she sees stuff in Naomi that Naomi doesn’t see in herself.

AE: Well, what do you love most about about Naomi and Emily?

JT: They fit together in an unconventional way.

AE: What did you think of Naomi and Emily’s series four storyline?

JT:I thought it was awesome. Ed [Hime] is a great writer. He got BAFTA nominated, you know.

AE: Do you like the idea that Naomi’s been in love with Emily since she was 12?

JT:Yes.

AE: Ed told us he felt so much pressure writing Emily’s series four episode after the Naomily phenomenon took off. You probably didn’t have that when you were writing series three, but do you feel the pressure now that you’re writing/have written the movie?

JT: Writing the film is one of the scariest things I’ve ever done – for many many reasons.

AE: For example…

JT: Name a good film that’s come out of a TV show. Umm…?

AE: What can you tell me about the Skins movie?

JT: Nothing.

AE: Nothing?

JT: Yup.

AE: Not even one tiny little thing?

JT: Yup.

AE: C’mon! You gave The Guardian three whole paragraphs! Just give me something!

JT:Nope.

AE: Ah well, it was worth a try. I promised to try to crack you. I’m convinced it will be brilliant, though. Lots of people have asked me if I’m worried and I always say, “No. Jack Thorne is writing it.” It’s probably my most-Tweeted phrase. I hope when the time is right, you’ll speak to me again!

JT:Of course. You’ll probably get way more out of Bryan during your lunch. He’s nicer than me.

AE: While I have you here, asking you one million questions, what’s one interview question you always wish you’d been asked, but no one’s ever asked it?

JT: I haven’t had enough interviews yet. Maybe who my favorite writer is? Not that I have an answer to that question. Probably Ronald Harwood, if you pushed me. What a terrible question! Superhero skill? Nope. Um, I would like to do Desert Island Discs before I die, but that’s another matter entirely.

AE: Is there anything you’d like to say to AfterEllen readers?

JT: Other than “thank you”? You guys being so lovely about the episodes really made me very happy indeed.

AE: Last question! Someone asked me the other day, “Are you a professional writer or a Skins fangirl?” And I said, “Why can’t I be both?” So that’s my question to you: Are you a professional writer or a Skins fanboy? Or are you both?

JT: I am a fanboy. Of Skins and TV generally. I watch a lot. I write on the side.

AE: OK, well, I’ll see you at the Skins movie premiere, Jack Thorne. I’ll buy you a pint – or ten.

JT: Definitely.

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