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EXCLUSIVE: Mia Kirshner on playing a brothel owner on “Defiance,” and her enduring love for Jenny Schecter

For six seasons of The L Word, Mia Kirshner played one of the most polarizing lesbian characters of all time. At the end of her run on the show, queer women might have been divided on Jenny Schecter’s likability, but one thing we could all agree on was that Kirshner was a remarkable actress. She embraced every incarnation of Jenny, from the manatee-conversing depressed artist to the gum-spitting, manic movie-maker, and infused her own affection for the character into her portrayal. After The L Word, Kirshner wrote a book called I Live Here, a four-volume anthology about vanishing communities around the world. Her travels even inspired her to raise funds for a juvenile boys’ prison Malawi. These days, Kirshner can be seen on Syfy’s new post-apocalyptic drama, Defiance, where she plays Kenya, the owner of the town’s brothel, as well as the mayor’s sister.

Recently I chatted with Mia about her new show, her fondness for deeply complicated characters, and her lasting love for The L Word.

AfterEllen: So, Defiance is spectacular. I just finished watching this week’s episode where we start learning some of Kenya’s backstory. What a fascinating character she has turned out to be. What drew you to the role?

Mia Kirshner: That’s very kind. What drew me to Kenya, to be honest, was the medium, as much as anything else. I like being a part of things that are doing something new. I liked the fact that there was a video game component, and I think that’s one thing that’s changing the way people watch television. As far as Kenya goes, when I decided to do it, my hope was that I would be able to play a character who is a very complicated woman. With Kenya, what you see isn’t really what you get.

AE: I’ve been having a lot of conversations lately about how science fiction and fantasy television often affords women more complex, layered roles than other, more traditional genres.

MK: I think there’s some truth to that, but I also think The L Word did complex women extremely well. There wasn’t a simplistic character on that show. I think all of the women were incredibly complicated, which probably comes down to having an all-female cast and group of writers. But obviously that’s an exception. Generally, I do agree that women are given much more complicated, much stronger characters in science fiction.

But I also have to say – and maybe this is politically incorrect – that I see nothing wrong with playing a weak character, or a character who views herself as a victim, because there are people like that in the world. Just playing archetypes doesn’t really interest me. I’m much more interested in playing someone real, someone I relate to or have known in the past.

AE: Do you see Kenya as weak? I mean, she definitely could have been a victim, she could have been a tragic character, but I don’t think she is.

MK: No, she’s not. She’s very tough and strong and proud of who she is. I mean, certainly she is very much aware in the town that her job is looked down upon, but Kenya doesn’t give a fuck. She feels like it’s their problem. She likes what she does. She set that business up for herself, as a way of expressing herself sexually, and the business is a byproduct. In fact, I don’t even think she intended it to become a business. I think she set it up as a place for like-minded people with similar needs, who wanted a safe way to have sex without monogamy.

AE: Right, and one of the best revelations about Kenya in this week’s episode is when Stahma Tarr tells Amanda that none of Kenya’s girls will look at her, but that Kenya holds her head high and meets Stahma’s eyes and even goes as far as genuinely thanking her for sharing her husband. Kenya doesn’t let herself be slut-shamed.

MK: Yes, exactly. Kenya has no problem with what she does, and I think that’s to be applauded. Amanda has a problem with it, but it’s less about the business and more about a big sister worrying for her little sister and wanting her to have a stable relationship.

AE: Now you’ve also gotten to do some action stuff on this show, which I don’t think I’ve seen you do before. You had a laser gun, even, in the pilot. Are we going to see more of Kenya’s badassery?

MK: Yes, you do! Maybe not necessarily with a gun, but she’s a bold person, and I wouldn’t want to be an enemy of hers. She comes across as pretty sweet, but she’s decisive and she’s got a rock solid set of morals, which I respect about her very much. I think Kenya always wants to do the right thing.

AE: You know, I think that’s one of the most fascinating things, when a character is sort of going against society’s ideas of ethical behavior, but living within their own very strict moral code.

MK: I really like that too. I mean, first of all, where does society get off telling you who you can and cannot sleep with? I think it’s such an individual, personal decision, and I’m with Kenya, in that it’s no one’s business but her own and the person she sleeps with. And you’ll get to see more of that complexity explored later this season.

AE: My favorite scene of Kenya’s so far is when she tries to give away her St. Christopher medal – or, well, her “St. Finnigan medal” – even though it’s so dear to her, because she wants to share her strength with another woman.

MK: I’m glad you liked that scene. I thought it was incredibly moving. I don’t love this phrase, because the phrase isn’t as nice as the action, but I think Kenya really believes in paying it forward. She really understands what it is to be lost, to be an outsider, and to live without an anchor – and I think that she thinks she’s one step away from being in that position again, so she understands that everyone needs a little help in their lives sometimes.

AE: You make me love her even more. Speaking of which, I’m going to steer this thing toward your most famous complicated character, Ms. Jenny Schecter. But before I do, I just want you to know I love Jenny. I’ve read a lot of interviews of people being real assholes to you about Jenny, but I’m not going to do that.

MK: [Laughs] Thank you for saying that. I know, at the time, people were really upset by that character. People said a lot of very, very naughty things. But, again, I think she’s a very complicated person, and pretty unapologetic about that, which I kind of loved about her. But she was definitely vilified for all the years I was on The L Word.

AE: When you think about it, Jenny was kind of the forerunner to all these antiheroes we celebrate now. The Dexters and the Walter Whites and the Omar Littles and the Don Drapers of the world. Of course, we see those guys and go, “Oh, they’re so interesting.” But with Jenny, we’re like, “What a bitch!”

MK: You think Jenny’s like Don Draper? That makes me really happy. I love Don Draper.

AE: Yeah, big time. She has no impulse control whatsoever. There’s a part of her that wants to be better, to be good to the people she loves, but she makes terribly selfish decisions that are most often motivated by these enormous existential crises. Both of them, at their worst, are just trying to grab for purpose and meaning in the world, and finding it more and more difficult as they get older. And their internal bleakness is what makes them so good at their art.

MK: Whoa, I think you’re absolutely right. [Laughs] Of course, Jenny lacks Don Draper’s smoothness. She’s not exactly the most charming person in the room.

AE: I also think Jenny is probably bipolar, which, you know, is a real thing that causes real turmoil in people’s lives.

MK: I agree. Oh, I so agree. It always bothered me that no one really took the time to talk about that. It’s a very serious thing, and it’s easy to say she’s a crazy bitch, but I think she also needed a lot of help.

AE: She needed someone, anyone really, to show her some compassion.

MK: I think Shane was very compassionate with Jenny. Shane was a great friend to her – but I also think Jenny put herself in some terrible situations. I’m definitely not going to defend some of the stuff she did. She made that bed for herself.

AE: My favorite Jenny is season five Jenny, when she’s making the Lez Girls movie after writing her book.

MK: Me too, that’s my favorite too. I think they really got the best of Jenny in that season. I think she’s so out there and so strange and funny, so it was great to see her like that, instead of being so tragic all the time. She’s an extreme narcissist, so that season was perfect for her. I think we, the actors, had the most fun in that season. We laughed a lot.

AE: It’s been four years since The L Word ended. When you look back on the show with the luxury of time, how do you feel about it?

MK: I am so proud of The L Word. It was the greatest work experience of my career. I don’t think I’ll have that again. When we were shooting, we were just up in our little bubble in Vancouver, so I don’t think we really understood the impact that the show was having. When people would come up to us and say how much the show had helped them, I thought they were just being polite. But now that I am able to step away from it, I do realize how important it was. It was the first of its kind. Not that it was indicative of every gay or bisexual woman’s life, but I am very proud to have been part of something that changed things for so many women.

I still remember – you know that last scene of the show, the dream sequence where we all sort of walk off into the ether? I was the first one who wrapped, and I remember standing up and saying to everyone, the whole crew, that it was the longest time I’d spent with any group of people since grade school. I think I knew, even then, that I’d never have that kind of experience again. And I care about all of those people very, very much. I am so grateful they kept me on the show, in spite of some of the hatred for Jenny.

AE: Can I ask you about your book, I Live Here? I was so moved by that book when I read it, and it just reaffirmed my most deeply held belief that stories are just the most important thing.

MK: I agree, and I think so much of what came out of the book is proof of that. There are so many hidden stories – everyone next to us has a story, and it can be life-changing to seek out those stories and investigate those stories and write about those stories. And once I had collected them, I felt like I needed to give back, which is why I started the school in Malawi. It’s been running for quite awhile now. We have a full staff. The Norwegian embassy gave us a huge grant, which was used to build a school structure. The kids are sitting their exams right now. And I have to say, that prison is nothing like the prison when I first wrote about it. The ministry of education is planning on taking over when our grant runs out. In fact, I’ll be visiting them again at the end of May.

AE: Wow, that’s amazing. You must be so proud.

MK: Yeah, I have my moments. It’s hard work, but it is very rewarding to set out to do something – whether it’s big or small – and see it accomplished. Can I ask you something, speaking of accomplishments? How do you think television is progressing for gay women?

AE: Well, you know, it’s getting there. We have more lesbian and bisexual characters than ever before on our TVs right now, but queer women are still wildly underrepresented. And even on the shows that do have queer female characters, we don’t often see a lot of complexity. NBC had three gay ladies on prime time this season, and two of the shows, Go On and 1600 Penn, are probably getting canceled, and the other one is doing a pregnancy storyline that has teased a lesbian relationship with a man.

MK: Yes, I’m still not comfortable with the portrayal of gay women on television, especially network television. We’ve still got a long way to go. Hopefully, it’ll change. Gay women are such a diverse community; there’s so much to explore, so many stories to tell. It doesn’t have to stop at coming out stories. Those are important, of course, but there’s so much more. And I think TV is really the only medium that infiltrates people’s homes, so seeing those portrayals of gay and bisexual women extinguishes all sorts of hate and ignorance toward gay people. I think TV has a duty to show these stories, these complicated and diverse stories.

AE: You guys in Canada are so much better at it than we are down here in the States, both on TV and in politics.

MK:I’m proud of us. I think we’re getting there.

AE: OK, just one more question: How much more Keyna are we going to get to see on Defiance? I started recapping it just for you, Mia Kirshner.

MK: [Laughs] Thank you. I’m there. You’ll see me, and I’m sure you’ll want to ask me a lot of questions by the end of the season. You’ll understand why I’m saying that soon enough.

AE: I would expect nothing less!

MK: Hey, and thank you to you and to AfterEllen for always being so supportive.

AE: Of course! And listen, if you ever need any Don Draper/Jenny Schecter narrative analysis …

MK: I know just where to go!

Defiance airs Monday nights at 9:00 p.m. on Syfy.

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