It took seven years, but Scottish actor Simone Lahbib and the rest of the cast of Bad Girls have finally arrived in the United States. Beginning this week, all eight seasons of the popular and award-winning British prison drama begin airing on cable channel Logo, AfterEllen.com’s parent company.
Going far beyond women-in-prison stereotypes, Bad Girls featured one of the best-developed lesbian relationships in TV history, between prison warden Helen Stewart (Lahbib) and inmate Nikki Wade (Mandana Jones). A rule-abiding prison official who was straight at the beginning of the series, Helen struggles over the first few seasons to address problems in the prison system while coming to terms with her growing attraction to Nikki.
Now 41, Lahbib currently stars in the British crime drama Wire in the Blood, based on lesbian author Val McDermid’s novels, and she has a one-year-old daughter with her husband, actor Raffaello Degruttola. AfterEllen.com recently talked with Lahbib about her latest role, her experiences making Bad Girls, and the media attention that surrounded the controversial show.
AfterEllen.com: Could you tell me about Alex Fielding, the character you play in Wire in the Blood?
Simone Lahbib: She’s a deputy inspector for the CID, which is a special branch of the police. She’s good at her job, tough, single mum to her 8-year-old son and, like lots of women, she’s struggling to juggle her work and her home life. All the stories are very dark, based on the novels of Val McDermid. I still can’t get my head around these brutal murders coming from the imagination of this apparently mild-mannered Scottish woman! [Laughs.] She spoke about writing Alex into her next books, if there aren’t ownership problems. I hope she does.
We’re just about to start what will be my second [season] and Wire’ s fifth. Each episode is 90 minutes, shot on film, and looks fantastic. It’s been referred to as a British CSI, which is a fair comparison as it comes at the cases from a forensics point of view, then adds a criminal psychologist [Tony Hill, played by Robson Green].
AE: There seems to be a lot of tension between Alex and Tony.
SL: I think at first Alex has no confidence in Tony and really doesn’t like him interfering in her cases. He’s too speculative; when he talks, all she hears is psychobabble. She wants facts – hard evidence to put the killers away. She isn’t interested in getting into the killer’s mind. She’s already looked and found nothing but fear and rage and hate. But as the series progresses, she realizes how good he is and comes to rely on him.
AE: Does the role get under your skin a little?
SL: Yeah. What’s frightening is how close it comes to a case we’ve all been watching on the news in the U.K. about five prostitutes who were drugged and brutally murdered in Suffolk. It drives it home how close fact and fiction come to each other sometimes.
AE: It’s striking how different the tone of Wire is, compared to Bad Girls – and how different Alex is from Helen Stewart, the prison warden you played on Bad Girls.
SL:Completely different. Wire gives us a glimpse into the psyches of some very sick human beings and their horrific crimes. Bad Girls is at a much lighter end of that spectrum. It humanizes the female prisoners and, as we get to know them and their stories, we start to empathize with them. Helen, unlike Alex, cares very much about what goes on in the women’s minds. She genuinely cares about them.
What I loved about Bad Girls is that it shed light on so many issues. The prison side of it aside, it really explored women’s issues, whether behind bars or in general life. I think it was a really important program, and I’m sad it’s been pulled.
AE: Can you talk about a couple of the issues the show raised that most interested you?
SL: One of the issues I was most moved by was the effect on the children of women in prison. In Britain, roughly half of all women in prison are mothers of children under 16, and a third have children under 5. When a woman goes to prison, it devastates the family unit.
AE: You started filming Wire in the Blood just months after giving birth to your daughter. How did that affect your acting?
SL:I just had to work in a different way. My priorities had changed. I had this gorgeous but very demanding little person to look after. Thankfully, my mum came with me so I knew that when I was working, the wee one was happy. I’ve heard other women talk about their brains going to mush after giving birth. I had to start learning lines at least three days in advance to let them sink in, and overall, I had to just surrender to the situation and be a bit more laissez faire. My work felt messier, which in some ways was quite liberating. And because I was so tired, I got the giggles a lot. [Laughs.]
AE: Mandana Jones, your co-star on Bad Girls, used the word “meticulous” to describe your acting and mentioned how hard the two of you worked to prepare for your scenes together.
SL: Well, I had the luxury of time on that job! But yeah, preparation is important to me. If you can get together with the other actors, even just to talk things through, I think it can make all the difference. Mandana and I would always try to get together to work on scenes, especially when they were complex. It helped us to be clear in our intentions so we knew what the characters wanted from moment to moment … which in turn translates to the nonverbal communication that fleshes out a scene and can often tell the audience more about the characters’ relationship than the dialogue.
AE: Do you pick up things from other actors when you’re working with them?
SL: If you get the chance to work with someone who’s really good, it ups everyone’s game. It’s inspiring and exciting to be around. The concentration goes up a notch, and they seem to draw the other actors away from the temptation to act — to be fake, in other words. Mandana’s incredibly bright and has a lot of heart. She always works from truth, and I try to do the same. I think when something comes from the heart, then it can make the audience feel something, whereas if it’s just clever acting, the audience goes, “Wow, that was great,” but they haven’t necessarily felt anything.
AE: For non-actors, it’s hard to fathom the degree of trust necessary to carry off intimate scenes.
SL: For me, if you can find that level of trust when you’re working, it can help the chemistry. Maybe it’s partly why the chemistry happens, because you let each other in. Mandana and I worked together very intimately for three years exploring Helen and Nikki’s relationship; there was a lot of trust between us.
AE: There’s a physical trust, obviously, and what else?
SL: I can’t speak for other actors because everyone has a different way of working and thoughts about what’s important. But for me, to play an intimate scene you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable, drop your ego, drop your barriers — and just connect with the other actor. It’s like a switch that you flick and, when it’s on, the scene flies.
AE: You mentioned to me before that of all the characters you’ve played, you admire Helen Stewart the most. Why is that?
SL: Because of her courage, first and foremost, and because she cared. She was very sincere in what she was doing. She risked a lot to build this relationship. She fell in love, possibly for the first time, and against all odds they find a way. Of course, she was flawed as well. She could be really annoying, the way she reacted to certain things. She could be quite … not pompous, but authoritative, which made her human, as flaws do. It wasn’t necessarily endearing [laughs], but it all made up the whole.
AE: That’s interesting that you list “authoritative” as a negative quality.
SL: Well, I was meaning it in terms of how she used it sometimes within her relationship with Nikki. She would use her work status and pull rank. Whenever she felt frightened, she would throw the walls up. But the whole authoritarian thing, with certain other characters like [prison officer] Jim Fenner or Simon [Stubberfield, prison governor], was different. With them you were quite happy to see her show of strength. But not in her relationship with Nikki. That was all part of Helen’s complexity, and Nikki was always trying to break those barriers down and get to the true person behind all of that, which won through in the end.
AE: And you found Helen courageous, even though it took her a long time to know what she wanted?
SL: Yeah, it took her quite a long time to get to that place. Her life was turned inside out, but at the end of the day it was love, and she went with her gut. It overcame her head in the end. She got there. She did the right thing in the end and followed her heart.
AE: The writers call Helen a lesbian. You’ve called her a bisexual. Which do you think she is, or is it open to interpretation?
SL:Bad Girls was my first big role and a controversial one at that. I had no idea it would become such an important show for so many people, or that there would be such sensitivity surrounding certain issues. And I certainly didn’t expect so much media interest. I wish now I hadn’t labeled Helen one way or another. She’s a woman who fell in love with another woman, and I saw it as two souls that came together and had this amazing connection. Helen fell in love with Nikki, deeply and passionately — that much I understand, that much I’m comfortable with. But as for the politics, I’m afraid they’re beyond me.
AE: Did playing Helen give you a greater understanding of the issues confronting gays and lesbians?
SL: It did, although I’ve always had some awareness of the issues through my gay and lesbian friends. But, yes, I learned lots from the show. I think I was fortunate to play a character struggling to understand her own sexuality, and to experience all her issues and fears very personally for almost three years. Of course, at the end of the day, I’m an actor and I’m straight, so these aren’t issues I have to live with. I go home to plenty of my own issues. [Laughs.]
AE: You’ve said before you’d like to have a chat with Helen. What would you want to ask?
SL: It was tongue-in-cheek. I have no idea; probably about her dress sense. [Laughs.]
AE: Oh, God.
SL: Especially Series 1 — that poofed hair and the twin sets. Not necessarily a good look. But there’s that perverse side of me that liked it. [Laughs.] I liked that in the first series she looked a bit dowdy, middle-aged and heavy.
AE: It’s interesting you mention that. In your interviews related to Wire, you laugh about the extra weight you put on while you were pregnant. I can’t think of a U.S. actress who would do the same.
SL: I think it’s slightly different over here [in Britain ]. I don’t think we’re as obsessed by the aesthetics. I don’t mind speaking about any of that. I’m sure there are lots of women who have had babies and find it difficult to shed the extra weight because they can’t get to a gym or have chronic sleep deprivation and still have to find the energy for their kids. So you eat and try not to care about your jelly belly. [Laughs.] After all, it’s worth it to have your child. I’m sure for Wire they light every wrinkle and bag under your eyes because it adds to the gritty look of the show … but then, as I said, I quite like that. I think it helps the realism, so you can believe Alex and Helen do what they do for a living.
AE: Can you tell me about a scene from Bad Girls that has stayed with you?
SL:There was a scene in the very beginning — the first episode — where everything is kicking off with the women and a near riot was happening, and Helen has to establish her authority. I think I was feeling exactly what Helen was. I was so nervous because I had to go out in front of everyone and take control and establish my place within the show.
And I remember the scene where Nikki turns up at Helen’s house. Their first night together.
AE: What do you remember about it?
SL: Just what the character was feeling because they were such heightened emotions. There was fear and excitement and passion. Nikki had taken such a risk and made her way over to find Helen. They were risking so much, and yet the attraction was so strong they couldn’t fight it. All that kind of stuff came into play during the scene. Kind of sets it apart from another scene where she’s ticking off Jim Fenner, you know? [Laughs.]
AE: At its best, the show captures a complex set of emotions. You could see it in a scene like that, where it’s not just a love scene because Helen is also thinking about turning Nikki in.
SL: Yeah. God, yeah. [Laughs.] I remember reading the scene and going, “She what? She what? F—ing hell, how am I going to do that?” Yet another Helen classic! [Laughs.]
AE: Did you hesitate to take on the role?
SL:Not exactly, though when I first went up for Bad Girls, I wasn’t sure it was something I wanted to do because the scenes I read for the audition were mostly of Helen in work mode, and I just couldn’t see myself as a prison governor. I’d never played that type of role before, and I nearly didn’t go back for the recall. But I did go back, and that’s when [producer] Brian Park told me about the Helen and Nikki story line, and that’s when I started to see a way into the character, and I got excited. That’s when I knew I wanted the job.
AE: The show became a huge hit the first season, but I understand the network didn’t want to bring you and your character back for a second season.
SL: Right, yeah, I got a call from my agent saying the show had been recommissioned, but they didn’t want me back. I remember I was driving at the time and must have gone quiet for a second, then said, “OK, well, let’s start looking for something else.” But I was confused because I’d always had such positive feedback from Shed [the production company]. I found out later it wasn’t Shed but the network that was worried I didn’t have a strong enough profile to carry the show, so they wanted to replace me.
AE: They ended up bringing you back in a reduced role, which had to hurt. So what made you decide to return?
SL: Well, it turned out Shed was being sincere that they wanted me back. Plus, there were so many letters from people who had really connected with the story line. I felt it was such a groundbreaking thing: a love story that was given so much time and attention and therefore was explored properly in terms of television. I wanted to see that through and give it its proper time. So, when I was given the opportunity, I decided to go back. She was a character I cared about, and I wanted to do right by her. The upside was I had a lot more days off! [Laughs.]
AE: Before we talked, I assumed you wouldn’t want to play Helen again, but it sounds like you might be open to it.
SL: I think a one-off would be interesting, as long as it’s not too far down the line; otherwise, I think it’s hard to recapture, and I wouldn’t want to spoil what we had. If the script felt right, who knows. Never say never.
AE: If there were a one-off, it’s sad that it would still be groundbreaking, even seven years later.
SL:I suppose that’s true. It’s unbelievable, isn’t it? Seven years later and there’s still so few films or TV shows that portray same-sex relationships in any kind of realistic way. Which, again, is why I’m proud of Bad Girls.
AE: In other interviews, I’ve sensed you were uncomfortable with your role on Bad Girls, but I don’t get that impression from you.
SL: Don’t believe everything you read. I loved Bad Girls. It was such a great time in my life, and Helen is possibly the most complex and fully explored character I’ve ever played. I genuinely feel proud of the show and the character, of the love story and the way it was told. If I’d been uncomfortable, I couldn’t have played Helen with any sincerity or commitment, and I’m sure after three years the audience would have picked up on something like that.
AE: Let me give you a chance to respond to a quote that’s been attributed to you. In regard to Bad Girls being watched by young people, a paper quoted you as saying: “That made me a little uncomfortable, not simply because of the lesbianism, but also the drugs and the bullying.”
SL: That’s a misquote! I would never put lesbianism in the same category as bullying and drugs. That’s just offensive. I hope it wasn’t taken seriously.
AE: Do you remember how it came about?
SL:Yeah, I do. It came from a conversation I had with a journalist about my decision not to appear on a Saturday morning kids’ show to promote Bad Girls. I loved the kids’ show; in fact we did a spoof of it in another show I did called The Young Person’s Guide to Becoming a Rock Star. Anyway, I knew it was watched by a wide age range of kids, and of course there were a lot of issues Bad Girls explored that teenagers would be interested in. But the kids’ show was also watched by children as young as five and six, like my nephews and nieces at the time, and I didn’t feel comfortable with them watching scenes where the prisoners were jacking up or being violent. What I said had absolutely nothing at all to do with the lesbian content in Bad Girls.
AE: You had your daughter a little more than a year ago. Could you talk a little about what you’ve learned from being a mother?
SL: One thing I’ve learned is the cliché is true, that there’s no handbook that comes with parenting. There are lots of things I appreciate about my own childhood that I’ll try to pass on to my daughter, but at the end of the day all I can do is my best: love her, protect her as much as I can, and just try to be there for her so she grows with confidence and finds out who she is.
I’m sure I’m going to mess up at times. I’m sure all parents do. But then I don’t think there’s any such thing as a perfect parent or a perfect childhood … which is a relief in many ways. I used to think the ideal would be to grow up in a secure, loving home with both your birth parents, because that was my experience. But some kids live with both birth parents and it’s far from idyllic, secure or loving — sometimes it isn’t even safe! That’s actually a subject we’ll be exploring in the next series of Wire . Now I realize there’s no ideal. As long as the child is loved by whoever is bringing them up, then surely that’s what matters most.
AE: It sounds like your daughter has really changed your life.
SL: God, yeah, me and my shadow. [Laughs.] Basically, she’s changed just about everything in my life for the better … well, maybe not my body. [Laughs.] Having her has definitely made me grow as a person, and hopefully it will help me bring more to my work. I’m just completely in love with her. Every time I look at her, I beam. I still get goose bumps.
We’ve become a family, and my flat has become a home. All those trendy neutral colors have become a color-fest, and there’s not one corner that doesn’t have something of hers. I haven’t slept in a year, but I think I’m a better person for it. Now I now know what unconditional love is.
