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Jackie Warner Talks Back

This summer, Bravo’s new reality series Work Out featured one of the most realistic – and dysfunctional – lesbian relationships ever seen on television. The star of the six-episode docudrama was 37-year-old Jackie Warner, the owner of upscale Beverly Hills gym Sky Sport and Spa who has a hot-tempered, jealousy-prone 26-year-old girlfriend, Mimi.

Nearly 1 million viewers tuned in for Work Out‘s finale on Aug. 22 to watch Warner end her topsy-turvy relationship with Mimi, making the season finale the most-watched episode of the series. AfterEllen.com recently caught up with Warner by phone to ask her about her impact as a gay role model, the surprising popularity of the show among straight women, her difficult relationship with her mom, her girlfriend’s infamous biting, and – oh, yes – getting back together with Mimi.

AfterEllen.com: Work Out has been my favorite show of the summer.

Jackie Warner: Thank you, honey, I really appreciate that. I love hearing that still. I went to Mexico over the weekend – I could not believe how many people approached me in Baja.

AE: American tourists?

JW: Yes. My biggest fans, it seems, are middle-aged housewives from the South.

AE: Oh my God!

JW: I’m not joking. I get approached so much by middle-aged housewives from the South. Their husband’s sitting there, and two teenage daughters, and it just cracks me up and they’re so excited to talk to me. It’s really quite interesting.

AE: Why do you think that is?

JW:You know, I said to Sarah, the girl I was training in the fourth episode –

AE: The socialite in Palm Springs?

JW:Exactly. I said, “If you’re straight, you’re in trouble around me,” and it does seem to be the case that I get a lot of middle-aged housewives who are attracted to me. And I can tell you I get like 500 emails a day – it’s overwhelming.

AE: Oh my God.

JW: A lot of them send me pictures, and they’re with their husbands or kids, but they desperately want to talk to me, and a lot of them are babes or pretty women. It’s fascinating. I always knew that in my heart, though, didn’t we all know that a lot of women get married and they’re totally repressed and they just need a lesbian they feel they can relate to in order to be attracted.

AE: After Ellen [DeGeneres] came out on TV, there was a whole surge of older women who came out.

JW: Yep.

AE: It is just TV, but it definitely influences people.

JW: It does influence people. I never realized how much until I received all these responses and people who are just desperate in the gay and lesbian community to have someone who makes things easier for them. You know, the more role models that we have that come out and that are living their lives and living good lives and saying, “Yeah, I’m gay and I’m fine with it,” like Lance Bass.

AE: What I loved so much about your show was that it felt like the most realistic, authentic lesbian portrayal I’ve ever seen on TV.

JW:Thank you. It is realistic because it is what we were going through at the time … and all the issues that I brought to light were the issues that I have dealt with in my life, such as my coming-out to my mother and our tenuous relationship.

AE: And boy, was that painful to watch.

JW:Yeah, it was.

AE: I relate way too much.

JW:What parents don’t understand is that when they do that to a child, they lose a huge part of a child’s involvement in their life. By the way, that third episode — I noticed a huge tide turning in terms of the effect that it had on people, and I don’t mean gays and lesbians, I mean moms and straight people and Christians that were emailing me. That was very pivotal. … I read every email, and I can’t respond to every email, but it certainly helps me tap into the consciousness of what’s going on in the country and where I have heavy support.

AE: Where’s your support?

JW: A lot of it is from the middle part of the country, [and] of course New York and L.A. I couldn’t believe how many people support me from the South and the middle part of the country. I’m blown away. I did not think we would have that.

AE: When I met you in July at a Work Out launch party you told me about the hypocrisy you noticed growing up in Ohio.

JW:Sure.

AE: My impression of people in the South or middle states is that you have to put on this image of what’s appropriate or right, that people are so constrained by that.

JW: Very much so. I was living in fear; I was living in complete terror growing up in junior high and high school in my small town in Ohio. It was terrible. It was a constant feeling of being found out — whether something’s wrong with you or that you would love every single one of your friends because of peer pressure if they knew.

AE: At what age did you know you were gay?

JW:I knew at 14 years old, my freshmen year, one hundred percent that I was gay. I had a relationship with a cheerleader, and she was very popular, and it was like fireworks — nothing that I had felt before. When I first had a relationship with a woman was when I was 13, but at 14 I knew one hundred percent, and I remember praying over and over because my family was very religious, and I was forced to go to church every Sunday.

AE: What religion did you grow up in?

JW:They were Southern Baptists — what a treat that is, I’ll tell you. And then they were converted to Mormonism by two Mormon missionaries. So the whole family converted to Mormonism from Southern Baptists and just expected me to go along with everything, and I was very rebellious and did not. And I decided, at 15 years old, I’m pretty much finished with organized religion because it just had been so pushed down my throat, and from what I could see, so filled with hypocrisy that I read the Bible on my own, and I wasn’t getting the same [laughs] interpretation. I was not interpreting things the same way as my parents were or the people in the church. Not by a long shot.

AE: What about growing up in that family made you the person you are today?

JW: I realized that being lesbian and dealing with all this made me so sympathetic to human drama, so sympathetic to human beings. I really have an empathy for people that goes beyond what most — and I’m not tooting my own horn — it’s why I’m successful in this business.

AE: I noticed that watching the show. I thought the way you dealt with Tess, your client who was over 100 pounds overweight, really showed your empathy. I didn’t expect that, I suppose.

JW:Well I don’t think anybody does, because first of all I would not be a successful trainer if I didn’t have that. Just training A-list clients or blah, blah, blah celebrity clients — you know, I have a passion for what I do and a very short attention span, and let me tell you, celebrities are the biggest pain in the ass ever.

AE: [Laughs.] They probably have a shorter attention span than you do.

JW: That’s true, but they’re the biggest pains in the ass, and if I was trying to make a living off of just a high-end, celebrity clientele only, I would not be able to do it. These people inspire me. I have to have people that I can make a difference in their life, and I don’t mean just getting a six-pack ab from a two-pack. I mean make a real difference in their life. It’s what drives me.

AE: Only a few of your trainers appeared on the show. How many do you have altogether?

JW: Oh wow, honey, we picked from the people obviously we thought would make …

AE: Good TV.

JW:Yeah, and interact with me well, and get me a little riled up. So we picked from the trainers that could do that, but in total I’ve got about 22 trainers. So we have a wide, wide variety. And I also share trainers with other gyms occasionally.

AE: On Work Out , you said that you thought you were gay as a result of a mix of genetics and social upbringing.

JW: I do think that I had a genetic predisposition because from such an early age I had tendencies.

AE: You said that you thought your mom and your grandmother were probably both gay.

JW:I can’t speak for them, but my impression is that I think that family members — people in my family definitely fought against their homosexual tendencies because it was absolutely unaccepted in their time, in their culture. And I feel that many, many men and women — I don’t think it’s a secret — have gotten married, gone on to have children, been in 50, 60, 70-year-old marriages, have grandchildren, but that truly have repressed the homosexual side of them.

And I definitely think there’s a reason why I have a gay gene, and that’s all I’ll say. No disrespect to this grandmother, but I think there was a lot of repression within my family, the women of my family. My grandmother in particular did not like sex with men at all, and I mean was repulsed by it. So I definitely feel like there was a lot of repression going on.

AE: You knew you were gay at 14, but when you look back further, what do you remember?

JW: I remember sitting with my mom later and looking at a picture book, and I look through these pictures and I notice in all the pictures with my little girlfriends, like at 4, 5, 6, 7 [laughs], I’m literally — it’s very, very funny — I have the same body position, and that is usually a hand on them, physically, and a hand behind them, like [a] “this is my woman” position. And it is in every photograph where I’m with another little girl, dominating them.

AE: Wow. You’re like a little stud.

JW:I was; I was dominating them. My body language is very, “This is mine!” Very kind of overpowering over them. And my mom pointed it out and she goes, “That is hilarious; how could I not have known? Just look at you — you’re completely dominating these little girls.”

AE: But does she still think you can do something to control or change that?

JW: That’s the very aggravating part with my mother. She would much prefer that I be a homosexual, fine, but do not act on it. It’s the sex act that is against her moral code and against her Christian code of ethics, which is absurd. So that’s why in the show I said, “So you basically are telling me as my mother that you would rather me be unhappy but alone, not having sex, rather than happy and in a gay relationship.”

AE: It’s the “love the sinner, hate the sin” thing.

JW: Exactly, which is the most retarded thing.

AE: Yeah, it is.

JW: I’ve studied so much religion in my life. I’ve been a Protestant, a Southern Baptist, Mormon — I was thrown into that religion. I’ve studied Catholicism deeply because to me Catholicism is the roots of history, what have really formed this society — that interests me. And so I’ve studied a lot of religion, and I can’t really find, especially with fundamentalists, too much that has worked for society. [Laughs.] … I don’t mean religion in general; I think fundamentalism in any form, and I even also mean the gay form.

AE: Now that you’ve watched the show, do you wish you hadn’t been so open?

JW:There’s nothing that I was open about that I’m ashamed of, so I’m fine with all of it. … When I went on a date and I was a little more [vulnerable], that was — oh, it was like watching my skin crawl. … The third date was someone that I was actually attracted to and it was just mis-er-able watching that. …

But for me, being open and honest is how I live my life anyway, and I am an open book. I’m a very honest person, and I’ll talk to anybody about family things and coming-out and gay issues. I think that’s the reason why people are drawn to Sky Sport and me in general. A lot of my energy is in this place, and it’s because no topic is really off-limits. My door is open. You know, when you need to sit down and talk to me about things and they’re painful, you can. If you need to cry, cry.

AE: But as you get more known, more successful, and get more notoriety, do you find that it’s hard to do that?

JW:Of course. Not so much with people here [at Sky Sport] coming into the space, but definitely I can’t possibly reach out and touch the people that are emailing me and writing me letters. It’s just impossible to do that because it’s now in the thousands. And as much as I want to discuss things and help case per case, I just can’t. It’s impossible to do; I don’t have enough hours. And some of the stories are heartbreaking, and a lot of people are just desperate to reach out and have me solve their problems for them. And I understand that need, and it’s a huge responsibility, which makes it even weigh more on my mind. … It does weigh in my mind when I leave here, but it’s just impossible to be able to [respond] individually with each email, and they’re traumatic. People are very in pain.

AE: Maybe you need to put a resource page on your Sky Sport website, just different gay hotlines.

JW:Yeah, that’s a good idea. I’m in the process of signing with a company who’s going to be completely cleaning up and remodifying the website because it’s a mess, and really being more informative and linking to things that can help people as well as giving guides to some exercises and resources that will help them to do this on their own when they can’t afford or they can’t come to L.A.

AE: What’s your specialty with training?

JW: Power circuit training. I’m a major, major power circuit and boot camp and everything to fatigue. So the right function with perfect form to completely fatigue … like I just trained Eve today, and she was late, and so we had a half an hour today and I killed her in a half an hour, and she was like, “I’m so glad I didn’t flake completely.”

AE: Who are some of your other famous clients?

JW:Well, there’s a lot of clients I can’t name. Marc Jacobs, the designer, and his boyfriend came and trained about a week and a half ago and had a great time; we killed them. But a lot of people say, “Well, you don’t have A-list clients.” No, A-list celebrities are not going to be on a reality show [laughs]. Sorry to inform the public, but they just don’t really need to … nor do they want to, and they can afford their session. They don’t need free training; they don’t care about it. A part of being at Sky Sport also is that no paparazzi can get in, and that’s a huge, huge plus.

AE: What are your favorite workouts?

JW:Well, I love doing legs and chest. … All big muscle groups is my favorite workout. I love to lift weights. Lifting weights is still my primary workout and my love; I miss it when I’m away from it for a couple of days.

AE: Do you ever hike any of the trails around L.A.?

JW: I don’t hike; I bike. I mountain bike, so I’ll take the trails with the mountain bike; I’m not so much a hiker. And I love the water. I love to swim, I love to surf, I love to snorkel, I love to dive. I love anything in the ocean.

AE: What’s your personal workout philosophy?

JW: This is my motto: Everything done in moderation is OK, so I’m not a person that tries to take your lifestyle and make it mine. And I do enjoy everything — I enjoy the things that other people like. I enjoy having drinks occasionally, but I make sure and only do it at times not of responsibility and not to excess. And I enjoy having food, and I have my cheat weekends. Every weekend is a cheat weekend where I have one meal each day that I really love, or ice cream or candy at the movies, but Monday through Friday I am really good — very good. So you just have to know yourself and know that moderation is the key — not excess and not depravation. It just doesn’t work.

AE: I agree with you. [Laughs.]

JW:It just doesn’t work — not at all. I’ve seen it over and over, and when I’ve got people in the industry who have to drink every night for their business or [are] out socializing ’cause they’re agents or producers, I’m not going to sit and tell them they’ve got to stop drinking; that’s crazy. It’s never going to happen — they’ll leave. What I try to do is get the alcohol to be cut down and then change their alcohol content, and then kick their butt in the gym. And trust me: Their bodies naturally start not liking these substances.

AE: Right — they become toxic.

JW:Very. Yeah, it becomes a toxic substance to their newly healthy, nutrient-enriched bodies. And they stop doing things like smoking and drinking so much. Greatly. That’s the key. … The thing with alcohol is, it has pluses and minuses. In moderation it can be a wonderful socializing bridge and really help you release some of your inhibitions and feel things that you wouldn’t normally feel, or at least feel like you could express, but on the flip side, we all know the dangers and have seen the dangers of alcohol. You see it all time in our community especially.

AE: Have you noticed you’ve gotten more clientele since the show has aired?

JW: Oh, of course.

AE: And you’re not the only gay person featured on the show. You had two gay male trainers too, Jesse and Doug.

JW:We do get more gay clientele, but we already had a good mix of industry people and gay men and women. … People know me in this community, and they know that I’m gay, and they’re attracted to the gym a lot of times because of that. But now we’re getting a high-end gay clientele.

AE: There’s plenty of them out here in L.A. [Laughs.]

JW:Yeah, we’re getting a much higher end of men and women who are perhaps even closeted themselves, but have seen the show and are starting to come to the gym.

AE: Wow, that’s really interesting.

JW:Yeah, it is.

AE: When I met you in July, Mimi and you were back together. Are you still?

JW:Well, it goes off and on because she’s very angry with the show. She’s very resentful, and I personally can’t argue with her and talk about the show anymore.

AE: What happened as far as getting back together?

JW:We just love each other. We are drawn to each other, and now it’s not about codependency; it’s truly that we both dated other people — and some people seriously. We separated twice in four and a half years for short periods of time, and I gotta tell you, we both just felt so, so off. Now you can analyze that for days — you can say codependency, you can say this, that, but whatever it is, it was very real to us, and it drove us into each other’s arms again. We are doing well right now, but it’s still tricky because of so much resentment with the show. And I’m not willing to change anymore. I’m like, “You’re going to have to deal with it; I’m sorry.”

AE: Mimi is younger than you and seems a lot more immature.

JW:Yeah, well she is.

AE: The biting reminds me of a 5-year-old.

JW:A child, sure.

AE: Has she slowed down on the biting?

JW:Yes, she has, she definitely has. And the thing is, this has been a growing experience for both of us.

AE: Do you think there have been benefits to your relationship from this stuff being aired?

JW:Well, yes, of course. I see that I pull away when people react to me and make me feel too much pressure. And that’s something I did a lot. … Of course our relationship has more depth and there’s a more complicated dynamic between us. And I’m not a saint, and I am definitely a jealous person too, and I definitely am a possessive person too, and I like a roller coaster ride. I like high emotions and low emotions — I need it.

AE: One really positive thing is that when you weren’t arguing, you were really affectionate with each other.

JW:Well, we have strong chemistry; we are flabbergasted by it. I’ve had so many serious relationships; I have never had this chemistry with anybody else. And I’ve been … very much in love with beautiful women — women that are gorgeous and their bodies are just, you’re like, “Damn!” — and very deeply in love with them and living together, but I’ve never in my life had the chemistry that we have, and we both are like, “Geez, what is this?” And I think it does reflect even though we were angry with each other.

AE: It’s like fire and ice.

JW: It is. Even when we were in Mexico, we still can’t keep our hands off each other. We cannot not look at each other and want to touch each other all the time.

AE: You said on the show you met Mimi in a painting class.

JW: I was taking an oil painting class. I was still in my last relationship, a monogamous relationship, and I didn’t really even give it much thought. And then we met a couple of years later after my girlfriend and I had broken up, and we met at the Abbey and she was really cute and kind of came on to me — it was adorable, and a woman that has the guts to come to me is pretty ballsy. And it doesn’t happen often. A lot of women are intimidated by me and will not approach me — it’s always been a mystery to me — lesbians at least.

AE: What do you and Mimi do for fun? They never showed that.

JW:Oh my gosh, we do so much for fun. She and I still go out once to twice a week and booze it up — we have a blast. She’s Brazilian, I’ve got American Indian and Irish in me, so we love to go out and drink with friends. We don’t really like clubs, especially bars, because it’s pretty much a meat market and it can be pretty lecherous, but I love to have dinners, and we love to both combine our friends and have big dinners and have drinks and lots of great wine, and then go out dancing still, we do that.

I just took her to Mexico; we had an amazing time, everyday was like we couldn’t believe how much fun we were having and how amazing it was. And she and I do much better when we’re alone. We have endless, endless conversations when we’re alone. And we’re way more comfortable with each other being alone. And we can sit and polish off a bottle of tequila and have 10 times the fun than if we go to a bar, just by ourselves. So that says a lot.

AE: They never mentioned it on Work Out, but I’ve heard that Mimi is a trainer too.

JW: She’s a trainer at another gym. Yeah, I don’t mix business with pleasure anymore.

AE: Did she used to work in the same gym as you?

JW:Yeah, I hired her ages ago, and I’ve done that with other girlfriends and it never ends up well. A girlfriend, a husband, a wife, a boyfriend should never be writing [their] significant other’s paycheck. Never be signing them. … The power structure is askew and it makes for resentment on both sides.

AE: On one of the episodes, you went to a doctor to find out about freezing your eggs and you started giving yourself hormone shots. Are you still taking them?

JW:I had to stop because the hormones doing shooting is too stressful and just way too difficult to do. But that process is something I’m going to do. I don’t know if I’m going to do it on camera; it’s just too personal, and the hormones really mess up your system. … Basically you’re spitting out like 30 to 40 eggs. And I’m just not willing to compromise myself on camera when I would do it.

AE: So you’d eventually like your partner to carry your child?

JW:I really do want to have a stable relationship with a partner and to have them carry my child. … I really have always wanted that and felt that would be the normal way for me to go, and also it allows them to bond to my child. And otherwise, I’m not opposed a hundred percent to adoption. I’m sure I could love a child equally if I adopted a baby. Of course, the ego part wants to carry on your genes.

AE: And you have great genes, too.

JW:[Laughs.] Thank you. But I want to carry on my lineage; I want to carry on my genes.

AE: You can pass on your eight-pack gene.

JW: [Laughs.] Yes! I’ll make a child do crunches.

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