TV

Interview With Laurel Holloman

After five seasons of The L Word, Laurel Holloman’s character, Tina Kennard, has gone through a lifetime’s worth of dyke drama. After several breakups, makeups, a baby, a boyfriend, and a diva on a dysfunctional movie set, Holloman told AfterEllen.com that this season has been her favorite to shoot since Season 1.

For those who were exasperated with Tina’s behavior over the last couple of seasons, Holloman urged, “Don’t give up on Tina. … She’s figuring it out.”

Although in recent years Holloman has focused on The L Word and her family – she is married to production designer Paul Macherey and mother to 3-year-old Lola – astute lesbian filmgoers will remember her breakthrough role as baby butch Randy Dean in The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love (1995). Holloman also played vampire hunter Justine Cooper on the third season of Angel, and has acted in at least 25 films.

I spoke with the upbeat, friendly Holloman before the premiere of Season 5 of The L Word, and she opened up about Tina’s story lines, learning how to play Randy Dean, how much she loved kicking ass on Angel, and her own real-life girl crushes.

AfterEllen.com: I know you probably can’t tell me much, but can you give me any hints as to what we can expect from Tina this upcoming season? Laurel Holloman: She’s just full steam ahead in her career, she’s producing a movie, and it’s really exciting. There’s lots of drama, and she has a very antagonistic relationship with Jenny, Mia Kirshner’s character, and it’s fantastic. We had a lot of fun. I love working with Mia – we work really well together.

So there’s some of that, there’s some dating, and, you know, there’s some Bette and Tina stuff. I can’t say what it is, but it’s great stuff – it’s good. In the last year, you started to see how they became friends, and I think that they needed to do that because they have a lot of wounds. I think that you’ll see that continue, and you’ll really see them start to really just talk to each other. There’s a lot of Jodi, too.

I don’t think I can say much more than that. But it’s great. So far it’s been my favorite season to shoot.

AE: Oh, that’s great. LH: This season and first season were probably my two favorites to so far.

AE: That’s great. When I met you at GLAAD last May, you said that it was really hard for you to shoot last year because Tina was off with Henry so much. LH: Yeah, well … in a way I had a lot more time off, and I tried to enjoy that time with my family and just know that it’s an ensemble and things circle back around. I wanted them to explore the relationship with Henry just so that you could understand … why she made that decision, and then understand also why it doesn’t work. I think we did touch on that.

It’s just as an actor you always want to explore more. But I don’t think people want to see his character that much. I totally understand that, too. I just tried to ask Ilene [Chaiken] as many questions as I could so I could come in with whatever was happening with Tina off-screen that maybe you didn’t see in the writing, so eventually when you did see it, it made sense. And I think it did.

It’s obvious that – and I think you see it up towards the end – when she’s on the beach with Annabella Sciorra’s character, with Kate [Arden], that she still … has very strong feelings for Bette. Obviously I think … [Bette and Tina] behave in certain very reactive ways and they don’t always stay in touch with what they’re really feeling and how they’re behaving, which is very human. AE: True. So she was definitely flirting with Kate Arden at the end of the last season. Does she come up too? LH: It’s … all drama, but I’d say this season is more about the focus on the central characters, the original characters, and those friendships and those relationships. Tina is very much back in the core group, and she’s a lot happier. I’d say she’s a lot better off and she’s in her place. She’s not nearly as lost.

For me, the first season and the fifth … kind of bookend everything where you can see this huge arc in between. There was a time my character was very lost, and it’s nice to play her more in this season because she’s more grounded, she’s doing great with work, she’s finally at not such a volatile relationship with her ex. And she’s back in the fold, so to speak. Do you know what I’m saying?

AE: Yeah. Absolutely. That sounds great. LH: She’s on her own. That’s all I’m saying. She’s on her own.

AE: Do you have input into how her story line develops? LH: I don’t have so much input in how the story line develops. If there’s something that stands out that I’m like, “Whoa, I don’t see that happening,” I can always say that to Ilene and maybe to Angela [Robinson], but this year it was written so well and it was just really fleshed out. And Rose Troche came back and directed an episode, and I think that’s going to be a fabulous episode.

It felt like a really good season, so I just showed up and tried to work as hard as I could, and just be on it. I feel that Ilene listens really well, and she also directed two episodes this year. It’s really great working with her, because it’s really nice to go to her when you have a question because she knows what’s going on. She’s written it. She’s got a strong idea of how it should be played, and each episode that she directs, the better it gets, I think, because it’s just well-thought-out because it’s so close to her.

So in that regard I didn’t … really want to change anything. If you have an impulse about something, she’ll let you go with it. There’s a nice freedom on our set, which I find refreshing. Sometimes you try things, and they don’t work and you shoot it differently on the next take, and sometimes you try things and you get really interesting stuff and it feels great.

I think that comes from [how] Ilene does have an openness, and I think Jennifer [Beals] and I come in with some ideas [and] try to ask as many questions as we can, and we’ve already created such an intense history. It’s really nice to go to work with her and try to find these things along with the history that we have. AE: Yeah, it sounds to me like you’re saying it’s kind of getting back to the same feeling of Season 1. LH: Yeah, I think so, but still some new characters [are in this season] that are going to be really exciting. The movie industry and the film that Tina is producing really does become a really strong story line, and there are some new characters in that. And it’s just there’s some great comedy and some great characters. … So it’s kind of like back to the original friendships with some new fresh characters added.

And you’ll still see Jane Lynch and Cybill [Shepherd], and they’re fantastic. But I think there was a strong focus on the friendships of the original characters this year.

AE: That’s great. I’m sure that you’ve heard some fans complaining about Tina’s character when she goes back and forth. How does that make you feel? LH: You know, I feel that it’s a five-year show and an hour drama, and if I stayed the same, people would also complain about how boring my character was, too. So the way I feel is I just – the plot, story line and all of that – I have to just follow [it],because that’s my job. And then the behavior I create around it is sort of up to me, so I have to ask the questions: “Why is she behaving this way? What’s going on?”

Ilene’s always really good about creating characters that aren’t just black and white. They have little shades of gray, and they don’t always behave so perfectly. As an actor it’s much more interesting, and I think she created a very likable character in the beginning, and then Tina didn’t behave in such a great way in a lot of ways, but that was OK.

I don’t think she was that happy all the time in that eight-year relationship. I think she’s been stifled, she’s been smothered. One thing Ilene always said to me is one reason [Tina] goes to Henry is because she’s in a less traditional relationship. She was Bette’s wife, and she wasn’t happy. Henry lets her have her job, he lets her have a say-so. He’s one of those modern males that sort of gets it.

And in that time Bette’s character has changed a lot. Like that scene where Tina goes, “You’re a control freak!” is really an important theme. She’s coaching her on Jodi, but it’s doesn’t take – it’s not until Bette gets in a relationship with Jodi that she sees what her behavior did in those eight years. Also, Tina was betrayed.

AE: Right. LH: So she’s still reeling off the fact that for those eight years she was completely monogamous. I think that’s part of her nature, and I think you don’t get past those betrayals so simply. I don’t think once you’re betrayed, unless you’re just like a doormat, you don’t go back and go, “I’d love to be your wife again! I can’t wait for you to cheat on me again.” That would make a really boring character.

I have to love who I’m playing, because you can’t really judge your characters. If you do, they don’t play that well, so in some ways I do understand her – in a lot of ways I do. And I think … like so many of the other characters, we all don’t sort of play it so great. [laughs] It’s a drama!

AE: Well among the characters of the show – LH: Yeah, I personally feel like I don’t act for likability, I act for the truth of the character. I think that’s important as a performer, because you have to find the inner truth of why someone’s behaving this way. … I think people probably like the way she’s behaving this year [laughs]. She’s doing the best she can. She has her reasons, too.

I think it’s interesting because when I meet a lot of fans, people fall on either one side of the fence [or the other]. They’re like: “Oh, yeah, my ex cheated on me. I went off with someone else too.” It just happened to be that Tina went off with a guy, so it just depends on maybe where you were in your partnership or what role you played.

I do think the one thing about Tina that hasn’t changed is she’s kind of monogamous by nature, and she has an intense loyalty. Before she hooked up with Henry, she did break up with Bette. They were broken up. And so I think when you see her dating, she’s not a player. She has to have a connection, like even with Helena she had to have some sort of connection. A lot of that connection was based on Helena seeing Tina as beautiful at a time where she didn’t feel beautiful. She’d gained weight, she’s pregnant, she’d been betrayed. She wasn’t feeling so good about herself and there’s this connection that’s made between those two women, and so Tina goes out and has a full-on relationship while she’s hugely pregnant. That was a whole interesting thing to play.

And it’s not like – if you want to look at other characters – it’s not like Tina’s out there hooking up all the time. A lot of what’s explored in fifth season is how does she date? How does she do it? One of the great lines in fifth season … is, “Bette sets a high bar.” She’s picky, you know, Tina’s really picky. I think she’s a romantic, and I think Bette has been the love of her life. … It’s hard to just sort of date. And what’s she gonna do, pick up a younger girl at a bar and go, “Woo, we had a good time!” It’s not exactly in her nature. I don’t think she seeks sex to gain power, that kind of situation. She has to feel connected with somebody.

AE: You have shot a lot of love scenes throughout the five seasons. What was one of the hardest ones to do? LH: The end of the first season.

AE: The fighting one. LH:The fighting one. That’s probably hands down one of the hardest scenes I’ve ever shot. But Jennifer was great and we had Tony Goldwyn [as our director], who is very patient because he also was an actor. I think he took a lot of time. We rehearsed it, and we blocked it, and we talked about it.

A lot of people saw that scene as some version of a rape, but if you really pay attention to what happens in the scene, it’s full of anger and grief and sadness, and Tina actually puts Bette’s hand inside of her. So it’s not a rape. She’s trying to find any last bit of empowerment – that turns on itself in a sexual situation – and Bette is just trying to get forgiveness out of it and love back. And she’s going through grief and loss and like, “I didn’t mean to hurt you,” trying to reconnect.

One of the reasons we did shoot that is because we also wanted to show that in relationships it’s not always sweet and tender sex, and when you get something as dark as a betrayal in such a long-term partnership in there, the sex is going to turn dark. And it did, and no one had really shot that. I think they’ve probably shot it in movies in heterosexual scenes and stuff, but not really in any lesbian scenes that I’ve seen.

It wasn’t like we intended to make anything super dark, it just – that’s what organically started to happen. I think Jennifer also came away from it being very proud of that scene because it was so difficult.

And … I’m extremely proud of the scene we shot in the pilot where after the potential threesome, where we’re looking for sperm, turns into a really fantastic love scene. It’s a real journey for me because I also did a sex scene with Jennifer when I was eight months pregnant, and I did a sex scene with Rachel Shelley when I was six months pregnant, and both of those scenes are beautiful to me … in the way that they celebrate the female body. They celebrate the power of motherhood and this beautiful gift we’re given as women to be able to have children, and they’re completely unique in their own way. I really love the scene between [Bette] and Tina when they make love after they’ve gone to the ultrasound and they look at their baby. When you look at the different journeys that they’ve had, of course in this amount of time and what they’ve gone through, these are the types of scenes that you would reflect on … and I think it’s possible if they had scenes in the future that they would be really unique, too [laughs].

AE: [laughs] I’ll take that as a hint. LH: I do. I mean, I don’t really know. But I would imagine that if they had scenes in the future, like wow, think of all the history they have now!

AE: Well you guys have really – LH: From whether, like, do they have experience with other people? What’s happening? But I wouldn’t know. I would just imagine that.

AE: You and Jennifer Beals have really great chemistry together, so I think Bette and Tina work well as a couple whether they’re together or not. But if you had to choose from among the other couples on the show, what are some of your other favorite couples? LH: I think Alice [Leisha Hailey] and Tasha [Rose Rollins]. I remember when I first saw one of their love scenes in an early cut, I was blown away. They just look so beautiful together. I mean, they both are so beautiful, but I just felt like there was a really interesting dynamic between the two of them. I just think Rose Rollins is just amazing, and Leisha’s energy in everything that she creates with Alice is just really great.

AE: What’s the atmosphere like on the set? Are you guys all together, hanging out all day? LH: You know, it just depends on what’s going on. Some people hang out more, it just depends on what your shooting schedule is and how many scenes you have. Like I probably hung out more this year with Mia and Rose, and sometimes with Jennifer, sometimes not. … My character has a lot of stuff with the new people because most of the new people on the show are part of the movie, so there are some really great actresses coming in and I had stuff with them, like Malaya Rivera Drew and Kate French, Elizabeth Keener, who is fantastic.

So it just sort of depends on what you’re shooting and where, because it’s also a balance of what else is going on in your life. Like my daughter and my husband went back to L.A. for a little while towards the end, and so I hang out with the girls a little more during that time. And Kate [Moennig] and Leisha and everyone is like, “Oh whoa! I’m glad you’re like goin’ out with us and dancin’ all night, havin’ some shots.” It’s not like I take the time to do that that much when my family is there. It’s a hard juggle because we do shoot long hours. But the thing that’s easy about it now is that we just all know each other really well. And I think we all know what we want to do with the characters and it’s just like a family. Yeah. It’s nice, and there’s a lot less drama, I feel.

AE: Was there drama in the past? LH: Yeah, I mean I just think it took a couple years to get adjusted. Not bad drama. It feels like a comfortable chair that you like sitting in. [laughs] … Like a family. A family with less dysfunction [laughs]. … I guess that everyone feels so lucky to have [it], and that’s a nice thing. And I think we know that at some point that it will end, and knowing that … creates a real sentimental slant on it, and also just a real sense of pride that we’ve accomplished what we have, and then just the hope that we get maybe at least another year or something.

AE: So you guys haven’t had any hints about whether they’re going to pick up another season? LH: No. We haven’t had any. … I’m not even sure if Showtime knows. With the writers’ strike, that puts another slant on it. I still don’t know what that would do. I think everybody just tries to stay focused on the present. There’s not much we can do. … To me it’s like people are really excited about this season.

AE: I wanted to ask you about something that happened quite a while ago. You basically got your break shooting The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love, and at that stage there werevery few lesbians in TV and film. That was only 12 years ago, and things have changed so much since then. Now you’ve played this really iconic character on The L Word, which is part of the reason that we see more lesbians on TV. How do you feel about being part of that major change in pop culture? LH: Proud. The simple answer is just I feel very proud. And you know, they’re probably connected. I’m sure one of the reasons that they considered me for L Word maybe was based on the fact that I did Two Girls, but I also had to go in and prove that I was Tina. Tina’s different than Randy Dean. Like Randy Dean would never grow up to be Tina.

AE: Absolutely. They’re very different people. LH: They’re really different people, and to me that felt really good, that a character that I pulled out of my back pocket when I was in my 20s – I was nothing like Randy Dean. It took four weeks to get her down, and I still watch that movie and go, “Oh, maybe I could have done this or that,” but I fought for that movie, and I changed my appearance, and I did tons of research.

A lot of that had to do with how intense Maria Maggenti is, and how wonderful she is, and how much she helped me create this character. … I think a lot of people think they just plucked me off of the street, but I had actually done a lead in a movie before that where I looked completely different from Randy Dean. You wouldn’t even know. I’ve even worked with people that say that Two Girls was one of their favorite movies and still didn’t realize I was Randy Dean after they’ve sat with me for a while. And that’s fantastic to me. That’s kind of what it’s all about.

But it’s really amazing, because when we did Two Girls in Love there was that whole question of, “Is anyone going to watch it? Is someone gonna buy it? What’s gonna really happen?” And that’s connected also to things like Go Fish. I don’t know if we would’ve gotten bought if Go Fish hadn’t gotten bought. Then Go Fish did well, and we got really lucky and we went to Sundance with it, and it’s just sort of this journey.

To me the beautiful thing is that The L Word reaches so many people … in so many different countries, and that’s just something that independent film can’t always do. Two Girls was great in the way that it opened up a lot of doors. I shot 25 films after I made that movie, maybe even more now, I’m not sure. But it really opened up all of these doors, but a lot of them were also in independent film because that’s what I was focused on because that’s where I started, and that’s where I thought the freedom was lying – within the writer-directors.

I still believe very much in independent film because it’s not navigated or dictated by a studio or a network, but it’s such a celebration to be on L Word and have it get picked up, go for five years, be in so many countries. You really feel that when you go over to Europe and you meet people in London, and people travel to London from Japan because they’ve seen it, and you hear the stories of how they had nothing to watch until this show. That’s when it starts to hit you that you’ve been part of pop culture, and you’ve been part of something that’s having a social impact and a political impact in a time that we need it.

You know, I would be very curious to see what happens 10 years from now. To me it’s a great compliment – I mean, in a whole body of work, I’ve played two lesbians, but they were both really fantastic women in a great way, and I’d play another one in a second if the writing’s good and it’s something I believe in. I guess I’m sort of an example of, if you play a gay character, it only can help your career. I believe that it just doesn’t matter any more.

AE: That’s great, because I’m sure that when you took the role of Randy, people probably told you that it was a risky move, but obviously it has paid off. LH: Yeah. Mostly the people that represented me really supported me because they had also seen me do a lot of different things, and I think they thought, “Yeah, here she goes. We’re just going to let her go do her thing.” There were times where I think I was maybe told to be a little more ingénue-y, whatever that is – I don’t even know if I am really what that is.

But I just sort of look for interesting parts, and then I kind of think of who the character is, and then I think of what they look like, then I think of intellectually how to break them down psychologically, you know, try to do my homework and then show up and present it. And I think sexuality is an aspect of that.

Just like for Tina, I came into that thinking, oh, she came out in college, she’s had all these girlfriends, blah blah blah, and Ilene and Rose Troche were like, “No, no, not like that.” I’m like, “Really? What’s it like?” And they’re like, “She was with a man,” and then, Bette flipped her. I was like, “Really? OK.”

It shows you that sexuality for Tina – it’s an aspect. It’s a part. Then as she falls in love with Bette, she was with her for eight years, then it starts to become her identity. Then when she’s not back with her friends anymore and she dates a man, she loses part of herself, so then you see what does it mean for someone in their 30s when they go through this entire journey. Very different than the person who’s out in high school, the Randy Dean. Randy Dean would have never gone with a guy, but essentially that was the makeup of her sexuality – different from Tina’s. That‘s what’s really fascinating to me with characters. I mean, every character I look at now – because of the work I’ve done – I will always look at it as part of a history, like, has this person had a lesbian experience? Has this person only been straight? Is this person bicurious and they’re completely pent up and angry and frustrated? [laughs] I think that’s your job as an actor, to really assess every aspect of that person. Is this person asexual? Is there something very disturbing and dark about this person? You have to go in there and look at all of that and you have to be fearless. That’s all I want to do.

When it’s all said and done, I want people to say, “Gosh, she was fearless. She shot when she was about to give birth and she was enormous and she was fat, and she’s fearless,” you know, or, “She did this crazy scene and it looked like it was a rape, but it wasn’t. It was grief, and a relationship that was deteriorating.”

It goes back to the likability thing, and I think as far as the career goes, it’s the fearlessness that interests me, not the trying to mold yourself to fit into something that makes everybody go, “Oh yeah, she’s castable,” because then you’ve lost the thing that makes you unique.

I remember working with this person who’s very famous, and he’s a great actor, and he said to me one time: “Don’t compare and contrast. Really celebrate what makes you an individual, and don’t compare yourself to anyone else’s career and you’ll have a great time while you’re doing it.” And he also used to say things like, “What we do is not who we are,” and those things I find to be true.

Like, if you let certain things in your life happen to you, like have relationships, not have relationships, be in love, have a family, have a child, all of those things will enhance your work. But if you just focus on the work and don’t do those things, then you don’t really have that much to pull out.

AE: You’ve also played a lot of roles that are not lesbian, obviously, and one of them was that really kick-ass chick on Angel. Do you miss playing those kind of roles? LH:Yeah, I loved that role. … At that time I just lived in New York, I was just kind of doing my own thing, and I didn’t really understand the cult following of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. But it was really my manager who said, “You need to take a good look at this because I think it’s really good, and Joss Whedon writes really well, and the actors really love his stuff.” And of course when I took a second look at it I was like, “Yeah, this is amazing.”

They said that the prototype for the character was Ripley from Alien. They wanted an older person that had some edge and had a fight, military vibe, and I went in and read for them and I got in my car to go home, and they offered me the part right there, and that was really exciting. I was only supposed to shoot a few [episodes], and I think I shot eight. … It was really a wonderful experience because it was a strong woman that was angry and violent, and it had a lot of stunts in it. At a certain point you have to go, “Oh wow, am I ever going to really play an action hero? Maybe not, but I’ll play this!” And it was great.

And he [Joss Whedon] writes great stuff for women. All of his women are really edgy and there are a lot of metaphors in his writing, and there’s just a lot of sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek type of stuff. I think it taught me a lot, too, about not taking it all too seriously, and that it’s about character and it’s about good writing. … That was my first experience with long-term TV, and then I went right into L Word after we finished that season, and I just had so much fun.

I didn’t realize how many people watched Angel until right after it came out and [found out] that it had kind of a cult following. The funny thing is Jennifer Beals has watched all of Buffy and all of Angel. She’s a huge fan, and that cracks me up. [laughs] She loves it, and I’m really glad I did that part. I’d love to do something like that again.

My fantasy would be to do some version of The Brave One, the TV show version of it. I’m very fascinated by how people behave in moments of grief and loss. … I’m also interested in the ferociousness that motherhood creates and how animalistic we become after we have children, and ultimately what it means to protect them. Those types of things interest me.

AE: Those are deep issues to delve into. LH: I know, I should try to go for a comedy but it just doesn’t really come my way [laughs].

AE: What are you looking at now? LH: Nothing right now. I’m just back slowly starting to audition and meet and see if anything fits, and hoping the show [The L Word] goes again, and we’ll see. I don’t know. There’s a couple things that I’m hoping for, but I don’t know. AE: Is there a question that you always get asked in interviews? LH: Yeah. It’s amazing because you guys never ask this and Diva and She magazine, they never ask “What’s it like to kiss a girl?” But sometimes you’ll get a straight publication that’s like, “What’s it like to kiss a girl?” and I just want to laugh at them. I want to be like: “It’s really nice. You should try it.”

I don’t know what to say to that question because it’s just a silly question to me at this point. That question is like a dinosaur. It’s dated. You know what I’m saying? That’s kind of silly. … Like hey, let’s talk about these characters, let’s talk about these women, let’s talk about these relationships, let’s talk about the political climate we’re in. What do you feel like when you watch me kiss a woman, I don’t know, can you answer it? I know who my character is, and this is part of who she is, this is part of everything that makes her up.

AE: I have another question for you. Who’s the first girl you had a crush on? LH: The first girl I ever had a crush on when I was younger was Kristy McNichol.

AE: Kristy McNichol. Classic choice. LH: Classic, and probably eventually Jodie Foster. But I don’t know if that’s a crush or just somebody that I admire so much. It could be one of those talent crushes. But I remember just thinking that Kristy McNichol was probably the coolest thing I’ve ever seen, and Little Darlings?

AE: Yeah, that’s what she was in. LH: Yeah, I just remember there was so much soulfulness, if you look at that film and her trying so hard to be tough, and underneath being very vulnerable. I’m trying to think – I didn’t have any girl crushes in my life when I was younger, real-life ones, and after I shot Two Girls in Love, I got a crush on someone that worked on that movie.

AE: Oh, OK. LH: Yeah, so there you go.

AE: Anything more that you’d like to tell me about that? LH: Just that, um, that – that crush probably turned into my first experience with a woman, and it was beautiful and amazing, and it never happened again, and I wished it had. But anyway, there you go. [laughs]

AE: That’s great. LH: But now I’m married, married and monogamous. Very married, very happy.

AE: How old is your daughter now? LH: She’s 3.

AE: Three, OK. LH: Yeah, yeah, and I have an honesty that I probably shouldn’t have so much about all of these things, but I learned a lot from Two Girls until now, and one thing I’ve learned – because I have had people try to tell me what I can say to the press – [is] I just like to be myself. And that’s what I want to emulate for my daughter, that it’s OK to be honest.

AE: That’s wonderful. LH: I’m not a person that wants to live in a state of fear. Oh, I know a weird question I’m always asked! What do fans do? Has a fan done anything weird? And, um, no. Because I don’t live in this state of paranoia about fans, and I’ve been really lucky, and everyone’s been so gracious and so excited that the show’s there.

I mean, even when Tina was behaving badly, I went out to Dinah Shore and I did some autograph signing, and like I kind of booed Tina’s behavior, and they did too, but then after that everyone was really nice to me [laughs]. I’m not just saying this, it’s really the truth: We have the best fans! We have the best fans.

AE: Is there anything else that you want to tell your fans? LH: Thank you. [laughs] And don’t give up on Tina. Don’t give up on Tina, that’s all I have to say. She’s trying to find her way back into her true self, and I think she had to take this time to grow as a person, and just grow up a little bit and figure out who she is outside of the dynamic of that relationship. She struggled with who she is in that. She’s figuring it out.

AE: That sounds very hopeful. LH:Yeah, everyone has to remember that Bette’s in a relationship with Jodi. Tina’s doing the best she can. She’s alone. She’s the loner now. So that takes a lot of courage, and I think that’s where Tina starts to really mature.

AE: I look forward to seeing it. I really do. LH: Yeah, good. I love your website!

AE: Oh, thanks! I’m glad you do. LH: Yeah, I just think that you guys do a really good job, and I just think it’s great.

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