TRANSCRIPT: Cherry Bomb: “Cubs and Cougars”

Episode transcribed by: Solomon Cat

Nikki: Welcome to Cherry Bomb. This week we’re discussing cubs and cougars: too young? Too old? Who’s really hunting who? Ladies?
Tatum: I’m so exited that we’re getting to talk about this today, because we touched on it in one of the earlier episodes…
Gloria: Oh, from one of the questions
Tatum: …and we got so much response from it that, I mean….
Dalila: It was like, the debated that were happening between people online in the comments was like, crazy! I didn’t know it was such a big topic.
Tatum: I was really glad that people told us they were interested in it and we get some time, now, to explore it. Because I think we all have our own experiences or our on cut-offs of how big an age difference we’ll go in either direction.
Dalila: Yeah, I remember one time doing a –because I’m a secret watching, visioning, list-writing type of person—so at one point I was looking for someone to date and I wrote out a list of what I would like in a person and I remember at one point saying, you know, well, around my age. I’m willing to go ike ten years on either end. And then I wrote out a list of all the other qualities. And then I met this eighteen-year-old. Ad she had all the other qualities and she was within the ten-year age range, but she was eighteen!
Tatum: Wow. That’s so young.
Dalila: and that just… for me, I was like…
Tatum: Now, was there a tem year age difference?
Dalila: No, but it was still—I realized what a difference somebody just coming out of high school, and me being out of college and in grad school and all that, made in my experiences, and how that showed up in the ways that I’d grown. Then being in the presence of this person who didn’t have that. Even though she fit a lot of other things on this list—like, she was a really loving and caring person, she had a lot of the same spiritual base that I did, all those kind of things…
Nikki: valuable assets.
Dalila: But it still really jarred me and I thought, maybe I shouldn’t have made my age difference so wide…
Nikki: It makes it a little more clear.
Dalila: Yeah, I was like, you know…
Tatum: Now, do you have a range?
Gloria: I think I have a range. I think my range in probably within five years of my age.
Tatum: On both ends? Younger and older?
Gloria: Maybe not younger. I need you to go through Saturn returns, you already have to go through Saturn returns. You can’t just come rolling up on me and all the tumultuousness, because I’ve already gone through that…
Nikki: which, by the way, ends around thirty, thirty-one, thirty-two.
Gloria: Right, so I feel like I may be able to go within five years of my age going up. I don’t think I can go down. My first girlfriend was probably seven or eight years older than me and then the woman I dated after her was like eleven years older than me and they were both incredibly wonderful women. There wasn’t anything…
Dalila: But I remember you had a problem.
Gloria: which one?
Dalila: the eleven years was a problem. A big problem.
Gloria: It was a problem.
Tatum: How?
Dalila: And you weren’t even supposed to know
Gloria: Her age? Yeah, I wasn’t supposed to know her age, but I looked, um, at her ID.
Nikki: She didn’t wasn’t to talk about it, right?
Gloria: yeah. Well, I asked her about her age and she was like, I don’t really talk about my age and then one day I had her wallet, it fell out of my pocket, I looked at it, I was like Oh my goodness.
Dalila: it fell out.
Gloria: Yeah, it fell out!
Dalila: it leapt… ok.
Gloria: It leapt out of my pocket. So I was planning her 40th birthday and I thought wow, this is…
Dalila: a lot of things.
Gloria: That’s too much for me.
Nikki: And I’ve dated someone when I was like eighteen who was much older than I was and it was interesting, I learned a lot, I figured some things out on my own, but then…
Dalila: But how much older was this? Was this the one that you were talking about in the other thing that was like way older?
Nikki: No, well I dated my teachers, too, before. Stuff like that, where it wasn’t as old as the other person, but still older. But I think that-for myself, since I’ve done this—I think that between 18 and 23, twenty years is a large gap. Or fifteen years, even. It just is and it’s because of your experiences and your relationships that you’ve been through. But when I got to twenty-five, I was not much into dating younger, either, just because I was attracted to, I don’t know, some a little more cultured and that has lived, but I figure it’s less of a wow if I was to date someone fifteen years older at this point, or ten. But say that, I would—again, I’m with you. Five years is ideal. Eight years is cool.
Gloria: But I do like to flirt with older women. And I’m not sure what that’s about. I think I find the kind of confidence that comes with living you life—you know if you’ve lived your life, if you’re comfortable about being in your forties or wherever you are—there’s’ something about that I find very attractive that makes want to sit on their laps, and that’s true.
Tatum: See, now I think that’s really interesting, because confidence, absolutely, is so attractive. But I find that I’m more attracted to confidence in younger people, and I found that women my age or a little older than me sometimes had more issues with coming out. They tended to have more stuff, more baggage, and actually the 24 year olds had no issue, you know, their parents know. Everyone knows. They came out when they were fifteen. Ad it was kind of refreshingly comfortable to be around people that just grew up in an environment that was so different. And they almost don’t understand homophobia. They almost haven’t seen it. Which is interesting and it’s nice to go into that bubble and say, okay the younger generation are kind of bringing in. Whereas I found around older women there tended to be more stuff that they had. Now, that’s a gross generalization, obviously, not all. But I found—whether I was still going through my lesbian adolescence—but I definitely just ended up with younger people and was really happy with that.
Nikki: I can see the pro in that and again because mostly I’m attracted to older, I could never say never. I don’t like to say never, because there are those few that I feel are old souls and have just grown through they’re own life experiences where they just went through, charge, and they’re just very on top of their game, and really good and comfortable, and so, I mean, it just depends.
Dalilah: I’ve dated also younger in probably that eight year range, but there was a big difference in our life experiences, and she had also been through a lot but in a totally different arena than I had, so that there were some things that matured her in certain ways and then other ways where she wasn’t mature, and her age would show up. But there were other things where we’d do things or be around each other and there were a lot of other connections that were there, and then the age things would just pop up—these little things that seemed like they came out of the immaturity. And it would kind of sideswipe me, like I’d be blind-sided, like oh—where’d that come from… oh, yeah. I forgot that there’s this difference in age because there was the connection. But I think it’s interesting, too the whole thing like what you were talking about, about flirting with the older women, because it’s such a perception of older women preying on younger women, the whole thing o the cougars going after the cubs. Whereas I think now it’s a totally different thing. I think lot of women are wanting those experiences. After we did that show and the comments started coming in, literally within a few days, I met this woman who was in her forties or fifties and she was with a twenty year old. And she was in a 12-year relationship which she had left for this 20-year-old woman, and she was like, I think I may be having a mid-life crisis, but I’m really enjoying myself. And the other girl was… I think part of it was that she was teaching her to have fun and to enjoy life and be playful. All those things. And she was like, I’m ridiculously in love and totally enamored. They were clearly very connected and the younger girl was like, stop worrying about it so much, we’re having a good time.
Tatum: Which is usually what the younger person says. Usually it’s the older person who’s like really?…
Nikki: responsible.
Tatum: …don’t keep reminding me that I’m older. And the younger person doesn’t have such an issue with it. But I think one of the reasons that people are wary of the idea of it is that they see their friends sort of disappear into a relationship with an older woman and then they don’t go out, you don’t see them on the scene as much. So we actually don’t know as many couples where it works, you know? They kind of get whisked away and there’s kids and then you don’t see them again and maybe they’re having an incredible time.
Nikki: and their lifestyle is just different than being in the clubs or the bars.
Tatum: absolutely.
Dalilah: But lesbians in relationships do that anyway, no matter what their age is. You just disappear.
Tatum: I think it’s different when there’s a fifteen year age difference, and suddenly this 22-year-old is a mom, because her girlfriend has children. I think that they do…
Dalilah: I have some friends like that, too, where they just would be the ones where they went out all the time and were always getting drunk and she had kids from her previous relationship and is very domestic now. I mean, it’s not like they never come out, but they used to be the ones you would see out all the time. Even once they started dating, you saw them, but once they really got together and decided to get married, they just don’t go out as much.
Nikki: Right. I think that the age difference des play a part to a certain degree. But again, you said that there’s immaturity… Like, I dated someone who was from another country and she came out here when she was eighteen on her own and built this whole life, brought her family out, did all these things. But she also had abandonment issues and there were very young sides that she needed to work through, which came out sometimes and she seemed very young, even though she was very mature in other places.
Tatum: Yeah. Age definitely is not necessarily a gauge as to maturity. I tried to date someone older than me and…one of the most immature people I’ve ever dated. Because you know, everyone was telling me you should date someone your own age, and…. (laughs)
Dalilah: Definitely you see that there’s all different kinds of facets. There’s all kinds of stereotypes that get caught up in the May-December relationships or the cubs and the cougars. But we’re talking about our own experiences, and none of them fit into this neat little packaged box. There is no neat little packaged box about this one.
Nikki: So who’s hunting who really is left up to you and your preference.
Dalilah: yeah.
Nikki: And your natural attraction.
Dalilah: Preference is the lord, honey, preference is the lord.
Tatum: and if they’re hot, regardless of the age… have fun!
All: Cheers!
Tatum: Well it’s true!
Gloria: And now it’s time for the surprise question of the week, which comes from one of our Afterellen online viewers. And by the way, send us your videos. If you have a question you’d like us to answer here on Cherry Bomb, send us a video. We’d love to see your bright, shining, smiling face. Alright. Now to the question…. So it seems like what she’s saying is that she’s not fitting in to her community because of the way that she looks.

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