News, Reviews & Commentary on Lesbian and Bisexual women in Entertainment and the Media

She Said What? Episode 8

She Said What? is a weekly online lesbian entertainment talk show featuring lesbian and bisexual women discussing the latest pop culture and entertainment news.

EPISODE 8 (February 22, 2007) Gray Matters, Heather Graham's lesbian kissing advice, and when Bridget Moynahan gets hit on by women.

GUESTS: Gray Matters' Heather Graham, Bridget Moynahan, Tom Cavanagh, and director Sue Kramer. For more information visit graymattersmovie.com or our Gray Matters page.

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  • sarahwarn's picture

    This week's episode

    Just a note to let you all know that this episode is a departure from our usual format, because it's all about Gray Matters, and we don't have an introductory discussion before the guests come on (too many people to interview, not enough time). Next week we'll resume our usual format of discussing multiple topics, and talking amongst ourselves prior to introducing the guest.

    what_katy_did's picture

    Tom Cavanagh seems really

    Tom Cavanagh seems really dry and funny, I liked him.

    I find it very interesting that Bridget Moynahan had no idea that lesbians in mainstream movies are usually killers or killed (or converted to heterosexuality), and also that she had no idea Cynthia Nixon was in a relationship with a woman. Sadly, this does kind of demonstrate why coming out in a big way can be necessary for celebrities... if they keep it low-key, then lesbians may be very aware of it, and eagerly follow every bit of news related to them, but a wider straight audience will often have no idea, and simply assume the actress is straight. I would bet that a lot of straight people assume this with Sarah Paulson, and also with Portia de Rossi before she started dating Ellen.

    Similarly, I think so many straight people, even if they are well-meaning and not intentionally homophobic, just don't focus on gay stereotypes in movies and simply accept the characterisations that are shown to them without questioning it or thinking in a deeper way about the message that is being fed to them. It was really noticeable how surprised Heather and Bridget seemed when Sarah talked about the "serial killer" stereotype for lesbians. I think this is a big part of the problem for gay women in entertainment - not just homophobia, but simply indifference or ignorance or unawareness of the issues on the part of a wider straight audience.

    turkish's picture

    Cynthia, Sarah and Portia

    In defense of these women, they aren't particularly famous so tabloids and entertainment news shows don't care about them. And if they don't care about talking about them then mainstream america doesn't know about them. Cynthia Nixon has never hid her relationship with her girlfriend but she's also not a big movie star so we don't hear much about her. Not many people knew who Sarah Paulson was before Studio 60 and they still don't because that show didn't do that well in the ratings and is no longer on the air. She's also not in the closet but she's not in US Weekly every week either. And Portia De Rossi had girlfriends before Ellen but none of them were famous. EVeryone knows that two celebrities in a relationship is better than one famous person and their nobody significant other when it comes to publicity. Ellen's the most famous lesbian on the planet right so everyone, straight and gay, knows who her actress girlfriend is. Did straight people know or care who Alex Hedison was when she was Ellen? No, because she wasn't famous. I think it's going to have to take a really big actress to come out of the closet and be involded with another famous woman for lesbians in entertainment to get the publicity that someone like Ellen or Rosie gets. Ellen and Rosie were already famous and came out on tv shows that were watched by millions of people. These three women did not. Indy, theater, and former TV actresses just aren't going to generate a lot of publicity regardless of if they are dating men or women. If Scarlett Johannsen and Britney Spears came out and started dating each other we would hear about their relationship all the time. But non-famous, low-budget indy actress and really talented older theater actress in a relationship are not going to get written about in magazines or blogs geared to straight people. And little kids in Iowa will never know who they are.
    Gobias Somecoffee's picture

    Episode 8

    Hee!  The three of them are hilarious together!  Heather Graham and Bridget Moynahan....swoon.  The story kind of reminds me of Imagine Me and You. I want to see it.
    sdqueen's picture

    kissing/straight/dry

    I love the scene of them kissing for the first time!! too hott!! i love heather graham and her energy plus Bridget is a hottie as well!!

    I love the fact that the creator is straight, shows that other people out there wants to see the homosexual community seen in a positive light and it cool to see their perspective on the matter.

     Honestly, i think the guy Thomas is really dry indeed and kinda lame, i already see that i would want to fast forward alot of scenes with him....but thats just me...

    SdQ still running things...stay humble and wise...

    jen1684's picture

    the episode

    The director seems really nice and sincere. :) And Heather, Bridget and Tom are really funny. It looks like they definitely get along! The interview was cool!The subject and everything was really nice!

    And even if we didn't see her that much, Lauren was... well... Lauren!! so cute!!

    Molly Bolt's picture

    I can't wait to see this

    I can't wait to see this film! I saw the previews a while ago, and it did remind me of Imagine Me and You a lot. It's a great cast, and it looks like it's going to get decent distribution. I wonder who gets the girl in the end. :)
    Nichole's picture

    Wait Wait Wait

    No one told me I was supposed to be hit on more because I'm a redhead. But then again, I'm not Bridget Moynahan so maybe that's the issue.

    Good job on the continued success of the show.

    Witkit's picture

    Bridget/Sex and the City

    I find it puzzling that Bridget Moynahan can’t remember who Cynthia Nixon is. Bridget was a recurring actress on Sex and the City. They shared a scene together in “Attack of the 5’10 woman.”
    Madonnaholic's picture

    I think she knew who Cynthia

    I think she knew who Cynthia was, but was just so shocked that Cyn is with a woman now.  She just wanted to "make sure." :)
    spashley47's picture

    awesome as always

    these episodes are never long enough :) i wonder if lauren is aware of all this attention she's getting.
    Cetienne's picture

    Ready for this rant?

    I am not particular fond of this episode. But that has to do with the fact that my sarah/lauren/chagmoin/stacey time was sacrificed for that silly movie. O please don't shoot me lovely lesbians...but if I have to watch one more silly movie like, I'll give up cinema altogether. The truth of the matter is that this movie is nothing more then a hetero-acceptable portrayal of gayness. And I for one am quite sick of watching straight women playing gay actresses who are still playing straight. it's call acting people! Invest in some lessons.

    Heather graham as a gay woman is a joke! A joke. And no, I do not mean that as some silly reference to what I believe is my ultimate ability to distinguish straight women. I mean that from the trailer alone, I am disgusted by the straight face that is put on this story in order to make lesbianism easier to swallow.

    I know that this was an interminable rant. But I have to say that I'm a little upset that none of the women were assertive enough to bring that point up. Espcially Sarah Warner! You're my favorite fire cracker! I love your point of view and your articles because you don't take shit from mainstream America. And well...I was seriously dissapointed with both interviews.

    On top of it all...the story sounds like the biggest piece of non-innovative fluff ever! The plot line...argh. Horrid.

    I'm rarely ever critical of this site....but I think I felt a little bruised that no one made a strong enough statement--but then again, this is entertainment. What did I expect?

    c.e.

     

    tempest819's picture

    Trouble with the Video

    Hi all,

    I'm trying to watch the video and for some reason it won't play.  I have the latest version of the flash player but it's still not working.  Can anyone help?

    Madonnaholic's picture

    I had this problem at home

    I had this problem at home (it just kept clicking,  but not playing).  I'm watching it at work with no problems. 
    Madonnaholic's picture

    Awesome...

    Heather needs to dump her boyfriend, move in with Bridget and raise her baby together. 
    makusel's picture

    another rant...

    maybe i am just being a bitter lesbian, but i can't figure out why no one else was offended by the way heather graham was talking about "why can't they just move to san francisco and be together." or "could they really be that in love if they weren't together?" i am really annoyed with this. brokeback mountain was the most painful movie for me to watch because it brought out every feeling i felt while coming out. and for someone (a straight someone) to act like all gay people can just move to san fran and be happy was nauseating. i can't help but be angry. she is a dumbass hetero who knows nothing about being gay. i don't think i will watch this movie.

    the earlier post (by cetienne) was right on the money. i hate that pretty straight girls play gay and we all think it is some kind of leap forward. seriously, two really feminine women (oozing with straightness) playing dykes just isn't that special.

    ok, i am done. like i said i am a bitter lesbian, so sorry.

    penguined's picture

    heather graham

    I hope that this isn't going to offend anyone for being too "gossipy," but did any one else think that Heather Graham looked unintentionally hilarious at the press junket. It wasn't that bad when she was speaking (what came out of her mouth is another story) but when not the centre of attention she held this unbroken "pretty and so pleased with myself" grin without ever breaking. And most of her answers seemed, conciously or not, to gun for the "isn't she cute!". This probably would be too ragging on celebrity for sport (even) for me to bring up, but I just think that a movie that it supposed to be about "being true to yourself," its not such a great idea to cast a gratying plastic, cutsie, heterobarbie as a leading lady. I got the impression that she was cast because she was the biggest "name" they could get to do the b-list flick. And from what I've read, there's probably a reason for that.
    penguined's picture

    bridget jone's diary 2

    Did Bridget Moynahan play the also obviously straight woman who had a crushed on Bridget in the sequel to Bridget Jone's diary? (Aside: the plotline made no sense whatsoever). If not, I seem to remember the woman looked like her.

    leavesoflorien's picture

    I don't know if she was the

    I don't know if she was the actress, but in response to your side note... The lesbian plotline made no sense in the movie because they changed up the story for the film. It made a LOT more sense in the book.
    LetsDoCoffee's picture

    Can't see the video either.

    Yeah, haveing the same problem, it won't play....technically it plays for the first 5 seconds and then stops and doesn't load.

     BTW - Jacinda Barrett played Rebecca on Bridget Jones 2 not Moynahan. They do look similar though.

    RenRiet's picture

    responding to the rant

    i totally disagree that this movie is typical or made for straight audiences.

    not all lesbians look like butches! and not all lesbians are "gay acting" or "straight acting" as you seem to have stereotyped it. i'm very feminine, and i act a lot like heather graham's character in the film. does that make me less of a gay woman? no way!

    added to that - my life is FULL of all kinds of people. gay and straight. and guess what - gasp! i have a straight brother too who i get along with. how is this film SO unrealistic or problematic to you?

    and to the movie side of it: movies like this are refreshing. i don't need to see a gay film that has ALL gay actors in it. i need to see films that positively and lightheartedly portray being gay and coming out - because that is the way it was for me and many others. it's a romantic comedy...has gay and straight characters, and it has a happy ending. how could that EVER be a bad thing?

    plus, with my hometown boy tom cavanaugh in the movie - how can you go wrong??

    Cetienne's picture

    A clarification to my previous rant--RANT 2

    Okay, let me clarify here for a second.

    Heather Graham is indeed a hetero-barbie playing this role as another poster mentioned. It isn't about someone looking gay or straight. How in the world would anyone begin to qualify that?

    The difference is between and obviously femme Leisha Hailey playing a lesbian in The L Word and Heather Graham playing one. Following me here? Aside from the fact that Leisha is openly gay, we see two different representations of high femme lesbianism. Leisha does a marvelous job due to experience obviously, and extensive research about both the population she is representing and the role she is playing. Heather Graham I'm sure would be hard press to explain what High Femme means!

    Now Heather Graham’s little comment about gays moving to San Francisco was offensive, silly, and made her look utterly uninformed as opposed to the "Gay Friendly" image she was trying to achieve. Furthermore it showed a lack of compassion and research on her part. This makes the movie very straight, because it doesn’t matter that the object of her affection is a woman at all…it might as well be a man. And before you say so what, I’ll say there’s a huge difference. A lesbian relationship does NOT follow the same course as a heterosexual one so it can’t be represented like one. It reads fake, dishonest, and contrived. There’s too much recent history behind the struggle for lesbians to be visible for us to dismiss it all like that. Too much! And the director’s lesbian sister and apparent gay friendliness does not make her anymore knowledgeable—something that could easily be fixed with actual RESEARCH.

    There is nothing wrong with straight representing gay. It’s beautiful and it’s moving somewhere upwards of tolerance and grand acceptance. BUT, we aren’t there yet and just because some random director is throwing us a bone does not mean we have to accept it as what it is. If someone’s going to represent my stories, whether it be about lesbianism, immigrants, blackness, poverty, scholarship—I reserve all rights to want to see it be a great representation. I am taking the stand everytime to say that just because someone thinks that it would be the good deed of the year to make a "gay movie" does not make them a saint. And they are still at risk to be highly criticized if it doesn't go so well. And whether she likes it or not....it IS a gay movie. And just because it's a light hearted romance does not mean it has to be this bad. Better then Chocolate, Show me love, Go fish, Goldfish Memory, Red Doors, Saving Face were all light hearted romances. We might even call them fun fluff, but they worked. Why was that? Lesbian directors, sensitive actresses, or maybe just great research?

    If my previous post had been just about the butch/femme dichotomy and which one is more valid in representing lesbianism, I might as well stop talking for the lackof substance to that. It goes deeper then that. It goes beyond what we look like, to the actual core of who we are, through what we feel and how we respond to things--relationships, parents, friendships, the work place...etc.

    That movie is nothing more then a botched representation of a coming out story…as botched as “imagine me and you”. O for the love of god...if the first lesbian love story is told one more time...that's also going to cause me to give up cinema!

    Peace

    dejablu's picture

    I absolutely agree with

    I absolutely agree with everything you've said.  I cannot begin to express how much I hated this movie.  As I've said elsewhere, I can't believe it got financing and eventually saw the light of day and whoever gave it the green light is probably carrying around the contents of their desk in a cardboard box about now.   Corny, clumsy, and completely unbelievable -- to use a word I almost never use, the movie was just stupid. I don't care if the writer/director's sister is a lesbian, she certainly hasn't done her sibling's coming out experience any justice with this ludicrous offering.      

    Frankly, I knew once I saw Heather Graham's name attached to it that it would be something less than stellar.  Anyone who has watched her career knows she peaked early and has been in a free-fall ever since.  It isn't that I'm not capable of believing someone who looks like her as a lesbian.  It is that I'm never capable of believing her as anything she portrays because she's a wretched actress.  She plays the same wide-eyed ditzy waif in everything and I suspect it is more about being herself than playing a character.  As for her San Franscisco comment.  Again, if you know her career, she is not known for her stunning intellect.  She isn't being cute, or clever or coy.  She really is that dim. 

    I'm nowhere near ready to give up movies.  I am, however, not going to make excuses for gay-themed content that falls short of the bar set by earlier, better works.  Accepting mediocrity is the surest way to keep getting it.

    Mariana's picture

    I too was a bit offended

    I too was a bit offended with that San Francisco remark... I mean wtf?! "yeah dude, you gay people all move to San Francisco and be all gay and happy there"... what?! That was totally clueless of her.

    Bridget's reaction to the gayness of Cynthia Nixon was also kind of strange... like she couldn't believe Cynthia could be into women. Brings to mind the famous "not that there's anything wrong with that..."

    Honestly, I'm not really fond of any of the actresses and the movie doesn't really captivate me, so I don't know if I'll watch this. But congratulations to Sue Kramer anyway for doing it. Also, let me just say that I think this movie is waaaaaaaay way far from the coolness that was Imagine Me and You. Because THAT was a cool movie.

    Oh and also: Lauren Blitzer is really beautiful. Seriously.  

    Panik's picture

    When it comes to cool movies

    No Way! Gray Matters was SOO much better than imagine me and you! Seriously watch it, you'll be surprised! 
    Do you like Helena from The L Word? and Alan Cummings? They're both in it.... watch it!


    "Stacey Merkins is a fu**ing c*nt! Say it say it say it!"
    Flame's picture

    SF

    Just a reminder that the San Francisco comment is not to be taken literaaly. i think she just ment something along the lines 'get a grip and have some courage to live the life you want to live'. Sounds ok to me.
    cold's picture

    lesbians kiss differently?

    I have to agree with those few people who were offfended by Heather's comments. That bit seriously made me decide not to go see this movie. Honestly, they give straight actresses playing gay roles a really really bad name...a name like Heather Graham. Sorry, that was harsh.

    Maybe it's my pipe dream that other straight actresses could be as socially and politically conscious about their roles as say, Mandana Jones and Simone Lahbib, but all three of these stars seemed exceedingly ingnorant. Not to mention the director's failure to recognize her own heterosexual privilege, which paired with the film's reliance on tired stereotypes, is probably what got this movie to the mainstream. Granted, this film was made for a heterosexual audience, not a queer one, and that makes me sad. Once again we are relegated to the realm of entertainment for the straight folk. What year is this again?
    JRocks's picture

    Yikes!

    Yikes, this seemingly innocent little film sure has provoked some serious anger. While I think that there are probably more worthy targets of our collective ire out there, some very interesting points of discussion have been brought up, so what the hay, I'll roll with it. First of all, regarding the "San Francisco" comment. Yes, it certainly displayed a degree of naivete on Heather Graham's part, but there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the sentiment. I'm pretty sure she was trying to communicate that even in conservative areas of the country, there are places that will accept gay couples. Obviously it's rarely as easy as packing your bags and moving to a nice, progressive urban area, but there are options.


    Anyway, the bigger issue for me here is the somewhat distressing fact that we still seem to be butting our heads up against the whole this-girl-is-too-femme thing. I think it's quite offensive to marginalize lesbians that adopt a feminine style as somehow "lesser" because of that fact. Perhaps I'm overestimating the progress that has been made in this regard, but I'd like to think that nowadays a woman - any woman - can choose to wear stilettos, skirts, makeup and all that with it being simply a matter of personal choice and not out of some ingrained desire to satiate archaic, patriarchal beauty standards. One comment I took particular issue with was one poster's assertion that it is disingenuous to make a film that promotes being true to yourself as a lesbian and then casting femme women in the film's lesbian roles. Now, can you see why I'm having some trouble wrapping my head around this? I mean, what's the message here? We should be true to ourselves unless that involves adopting a very feminine style? Something about that doesn't sit right with me.


    Now, don't get me wrong here. I definitely would like to see more butch lesbians around, but as it stands, we should consider taking a step back and considering who our real enemies are. There are lots of them out there, but I don't think this movie is one of them.

    AoiSora's picture

    About the rants...

     I think it all shouldn't be taken as heavily as some people seem to do... it's just a romantic comedy... it's supposed to be entertaining. If you think it's silly and you feel the same way about a lot of movies, maybe you just don't like the same thing a lot of people do :S

    Also, I think the comments were just said jokingly and shouldn't be treated like political statements. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like they didn't quite know what to say and just tried to say something funny and light, yeah? I didn't like the interview that much either, but just because nobody seemed very enthousiastic or relaxed to talk about the topic.

    Anyway, like I always say: don't take yourself too serious, 'kay? :)

    (lol I didn't meant for it to rhyme like that on purpose XD)

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    ~The blue sky reaches so far that none can escape it~

    watching's picture

    Venting not Ranting

    I thought all the actors' responses were embarrassing and insensitive. Tom C seemed irritated that he was expected to say something gay friendly and politically correct. He also gave himself the male privilege of interrupting the women several times so he could emote. Sarah should have gone after him. Did he expect to have his ego smothered by a lesbian interviewer? Of course, she was more interested in the women and the lesbian storyline.

     Both women seemed to be relatively unendowed with the gray matter we call brains. I found them an embarrassment to my sex.

    As for the comment preceding mine: most of the ranting was about what the women said and not the content of the film. As to the genre romantic comedy, a lot of lesbians and straights liked Kissing Jessica Stein, but it does seem to me that these oh-so-very-unpolitical  films let the men come out victors. They get the bisexual women and the newly come out lesbian has to find someone else. If the woman who comes out  always loses the girl, this light romantic comedy isn't so light after all. I think that's why several people previously commented positively about Imagine Me and You.

    AoiSora's picture

    ^_^"

    ...what's up really... a not great given interview and they're already  "unendowed with [...] brains?" and "an embarrasment to my sex"? (okay, the latter was pretty funny, considering more than half the world population is of that sex)

    I didn't see the movie (I don't think it'll be in the cinema's here) but I thought it actually does have a happy ending?

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    ~The blue sky reaches so far that none can escape it~

    Panik's picture

    IT DOES! The ending is

    IT DOES! The ending is actually really cute I think!



    "Stacey Merkins is a fu**ing c*nt! Say it say it say it!"
    Madonnaholic's picture

    Wow, I agree...

    I definitely think that everyone's opinion is important and valued.  Saying that, here's my opinion:  I think the attacks (both on Heather, Tom, Bridget, and the movie) are pretty harsh.  I've seen Gray Matters twice, and although there are things I didn't like about it, all in all, I found it entertaining.  I for one, was not offended by Heather's SF remark--I wonder if you'd still be offended if Heather was a lesbian making the same comment?  I also don't see the movie as putting a "straight face" on lesbianism.  I think that Heather cared enough about the role as Gray to take Carolyn out to dinner and pick her brain. 
    leavesoflorien's picture

    Tom C and the Rants

    Firstly, Tom C seemed incredibly annoyed that the focus of the interview immediately zoomed into lesbianism. I have the feeling that he's having a tough time with the press junket for this movie because while he is a major character, no one cares about interviewing him. They're all over Heather G. and Bridget M. I felt a little bad for him in this interview because after the initial question, he was essentially ignored for the rest of the interview, which is why I think he kept interrupting and being rude.

    As for all of this ranting from everyone...let me just ask, have you seen the movie yet? I don't think you can judge the movie itself until you've actually seen it. I wouldn't judge the movie on the ignorance of the actors. While they might be ignorant, they're playing characters who are not, characters who have dialogue written by someone else!

    turkish's picture

    In Defense of Bridget

    It's very possible Bridget had no idea about Cynthia Nixon. She worked with her years ago in 2000. Cynthia was still with her kids' father Danny Mozes until 2003. They had been dating since high school.

    And Heather was completely joking about that San Francisco thing. A bad joke but a joke nonetheless.

    And the director never claimed to be making the movie for a lesbian audience. She has said that she made the movie for everyone. That's why it's rated pg-13. I'm appreciative this movie was made for the simple fact that it opens the door for more movies with lesbian/bisexual characters to be released to wider audiences. I think we are still years away from their ever being a "lesbian Brokeback Mountain" but movies like Gray Matters and Imagine Me and You and Puccini for Beginners are a step in the right direction.

    And I'm so tired of the "real lesbians don't look like that" argument. What makes a "real" lesbian?

    the rizzle razzle kitsch of paranoid city's picture

    couldnt find show times in L.A.!!!!!!!!!!

    i went to a lot of "fandango" type sites but i couldn't find any movie theater playing this movie, in los angeles of all places. does anyone know where i can find this movie in L.A.?
    CaliSky3's picture

    Awesome

    The film was amazing. I want it on DVD already! -Rachel
    frozenpears's picture

    If Heather Graham IS Gray..

    If heather graham is gray, then I think I love her. lol

    I love when she sticks her head in the middle of Bridget and Tom's stare in the hotel room. :P She's so quirky and cute that I just want to steal her off the movie screen!!


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