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Interview with lesbian animator-comic creator Lien Fan Shen

The creator of the very first lesbian-themed comic book in Taiwan, Lien Fan Shen is no stranger to controversy. An accomplished animator, comic artist and academic, she recently headlined the “Queer Comics” panel at Comic-Con, which of course, got our attention.

Back in the 90s, while working full-time as a commercial comic book artist in Taiwan, Shen created I Will Be Your Paradise, which is only now getting the full attention it deserves. Her talk at this year’s show was inspired by a more recent paper about her work and its reception. Down-to-earth and contemplative, Shen, who now teaches at the University of Utah and works in experimental animation, is happy to share her insights and experiences.

Fresh from the convention, we had a chance to chat with Shen about her groundbreaking work, cultural norms in Taiwan and in the comics industry, and the simple importance of being out and proud.

AfterEllen: So, how was Comic-Con?

Lien Fan Shen: It was wonderful! I saw a lot of people, it was so crowded — overwhelming, even. I’m exhausted! [laughs].

AE: In your panel, you talked a lot about your manga, I Will Be Your Paradise — and the ways in which you had to struggle with the publisher. How did it all come about?

LFS: The 90s, [right after government control of the media ended in Taiwan], were still very conservative. But the public was trying to transform into a more open kind of atmosphere. There were LGBT movements coming along with the feminist movement, though the society and the educational system were still very conservative.

There was one specific instance — a true event — that inspired me to create my own work. Two high school girls from the most prestigious school committed suicide together. What struck me was the reaction from their parents and friends and teachers. They strongly protested that [the girls] were not in a homosexual relationship. Their classmates even sent a letter to the newspaper [claiming that they were straight]. I have another quote from the girls, from their notes written right before their deaths: ‘It is not failure or stress in our daily lives that makes us feel difficult. Rather, it is that our existence is incompatible with social norms.”

AE: Wow. That’s heartbreaking. So you based your comic on their story?

LFS: I used my own interpretation of the events, using my own view of the whole story, and of course, I encountered some interesting challenges. Reflecting on it 10 or more years later, looking back, I was framed into a very bizarre closet. I think my publisher, specifically, tried to separate the artist identity and what had been created, using my own creative freedom, or whatever.

AE: So they tried to “de-gay” your image.

LFS: One example I brought up in my presentation were the [bios] that editors would write about me as the artist. They used interesting wording to frame me as an “outsider” who was interested in the issues of homosexuality. I didn’t think about it at the time, but looking back, not a single person actually asked about my identity!

It’s always like that in the industry, the publisher wants to sell comic books. The reason they actually approved my story was just because they thought no one had done it before. It’s not that they were interested [in exploring lesbian issues].

AE: Right, it was new.

LFS: Right. And a lot of the time, I was fighting with my editor about whatto present in my book. It was so difficult, the most difficult work I’ve ever done.

Before this story, and after this story, all of my work was melodrama that’s really about general, ordinary high school romance. They sold well, and that’s why they approved of this kind of “different” story. It was new for them at the time.

Therefore, we were fighting all the time about what I wanted to present, and what they wanted to present. They wanted to have a more romantic storyline and more drama, rather than showing the real issue of what had happened. They didn’t object to the idea of homosexuality, but just how to present it.

AE: Do you think if it were coming out today, it would be as difficult? Do you think there has been more acceptance since the 90s?

LFS: I think so, because there are so many films in Taiwan right now that are actually about same-sex relationships, and a lot of things have happened after this. I think if it were happening now, I would certainly do it in a different way, maybe add a more positive ending, because it’s still a very sad ending — well, the event itself was a sad event, so there’s a sad ending. But I personally don’t like sad endings.

AE: Just looking at how much queer programming there was at Comic-Con this year was very encouraging. Has the comic industry in Taiwan opened up to more queer characters and storylines?

LFS: In Taiwan, I don’t think so, but let me clarify. If you’re familiar with Sh?ìjo culture, you’ll know the term yaoi, which means male-male relationship. That kind of content and subject matter started in Japan in the 1970s, so it’s quite long-lived. So, male-to-male relationships in girls’ comic books have always been there. It’s nothing new for the 21st century.

However, female-to-female relationships in girls’ comic books are surprisingly few. It’s very few in Taiwan or in Japan. Unless, that is, it’s a comic targeting boys. And none of them are actually talking about the real issues, or what’s happening in reality about lesbians and politics.

So, some things change — but other things really haven’t changed much at all.

AE: So, do you have any new projects in the pipeline?

LFS: I do have a new project — it’s an animated documentary about Taiwanese lesbians. It’s still in the initial stage, but I do have a grant from school that will allow me to start up. I’m going to start taking footage in Taiwan this year and next year, and start creating some — it’s quite similar to Waking Life or Waltz with Bashir — not quite rotoscoping, but using the real actor [or] actress’s voice to create the animation. It’s similar to that.

I want to use that [technique] to present some theory I’ve been reading and thoughts that I have about Taiwanese lesbians.

AE: I’m looking forward to seeing that!

LFS: [laughing] Wish me luck!

AE: Seriously, though, it’s very cool to see LGBT artists embracing animation — it’s a small but growing trend. It’s very fresh.

LFS: Yeah, I think so too! For me, it’s always like, with newer technology, or with any made image, you always open a certain possibility. With an animated image, you can express more ideas to the viewer. It becomes a very philosophical kind of discourse, and I’m very interested in that as well, so I want to explore that possibility.

AE: That sounds fantastic to me. Anything else you’d like to add, before we part ways?

LFS: Maybe it’s too political, but I really think, how should I put it … If there is still one person that is not coming out, we’re all still in the closet. I’d like to say that to all Taiwanese lesbians.

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