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“Skins” boss Jamie Brittain talks generation three, Katie Fitch action figures, and why he loves Naomily

If you’re a Skins fan and I say “Dynamic Duo,” your mind immediately jumps to Bryan Elsley and Jamie Brittain – maybe because those are the first names you see when you’re sitting slack-jawed in front of your television at the end of every episode. Bryan and Jamie are the masterminds behind E4’s award-winning teen drama. They created it. They write for it. They even help choose casts and costumes and soundtracks.

The good thing about having your name on the title card at the end of every episode is that everyone knows who to thank for making their imaginations a richer place. The bad thing about having your name on the title card at the end of every episode is that everyone knows who to abuse when something happens they don’t like.

Jamie Brittain took an exceptional beating – even from me – during the last series of Skins, after the death of a main character shocked fans. But Jamie is no Dr. John Foster wielding a baseball bat – though he does admit to an uncanny resemblance to Wolverine. (“Truly,” he says, “the beardless are the last social taboo.”)

During our interview this weekend, he made me swoon, made me sigh, and made me spit Vitamin Water all over my keyboard. We talked about creating beloved characters, killing beloved characters, marketing Skins action figures, what to expect from the next generation, and why he really does love Naomily.

AfterEllen: I think it’s pretty obvious by now that I think Skins is better than any show on TV in America or in the UK. How did the concept originate? And how did you plan to distinguish it from the millions of other teen shows out there?

Jamie Brittain: I wrote a short story when I was 16 called Machina. It was terrible, adolescent guff but it had three characters in it who I liked – Sid, Tony and Michelle. And though the story was crap I occasionally read it over the years and always thought that there might be some future in these characters. So when Dad [Skins co-creator Bryan Elsley] asked me to help him come up with a new show, my thoughts immediately sprung to those characters.

I love teen drama, and have watched pretty much all of them. But in the UK (and the US to a lesser degree), many TV shows seemed to patronize their teenage characters with an adult drawn version of their lives – with s–tty dialogue, crap soundtracks and actors pushing 30. US telly is still particularly bad about that.

AE: I agree. Every actor on 90210 looks 45.

JB: My idea was to start fresh, to involve young people from the start, and to present teenagers as fully-rounded characters with complex emotional lives. Plenty of shows have done that before – Buffy, My So Called Life – but not really on UK telly.

So once we had that, Bryan filled in the gaps with his experience and we put the show together. The one character per episode thing was completely stolen from Lost, which I was addicted to at the time.

AE: Jack Thorne told me you are Sid. Is there any truth to that?

JB: Yep, totally. Except when I was a teenager, I had even less sex than he did. But then again, Tony is me too. And Effy.

AE: Well Effy had enough sex for all of us.

JB: Absolutely.

AE: Are those three the characters you relate to most?

JB: Well, like I say, they’re all facets of me. Sid is the anxious nerd, Tony the smart bastard and Effy the mentally ill weirdo.

AE: Would you say you projected your hotness onto the Stonems?

JB: None of my hotness went into the Stonems. I think that would have been too much to handle.

AE: Yeah, Effy and Tony are unsightly. No one lusts after them.

JB: Absolutely. Ugly bastards. It’s no surprise that Nick (Nicholas Hoult) has been cast as ‘Beast’ in X-Men.

That’s actually awesome, by the way. I can say I’ve met Hank McCoy.

AE: OK, so Skins origins. Standards and practices are obviously way different in the US and the UK – swearing on primetime costs a million dollars or something on American primetime – but was there any hesitation from E4 when you approcahed them with a script full of sex and drugs and language?

JB: No hesitation at all. They were really cool. The show has a reputation for all those things but I think if you actually watch it there really isn’t that much debauchery going on. Certainly less than a lot of real teenagers I know.

AE: Less than some adults I know! Generation one was so beloved. I mean, there are still people who refuse to watch generation two. Was it always your plan to change generations after series two?

JB: Well, we didn’t know we were even going to get a second series when we did the first one. I think as soon as we did, we decided to do the generation swaperoo. It was scary, but we had to make it work, and luckily we did. Skins loses some of its audience with every generation, but it finds new ones too.

AE: I don’t know any American show that would have had the balls to do it, to pull such a cherished cast like that. It would have been like Skins: The Uni Years over here.

JB: You’re wrong, Heather. Remember Saved By The Bell: The New Class? We basically nicked the idea from them.

AE: Yeah, Saved By The Bell: The New Class was a cinematic masterpiece.

JB: Also, when teen shows go to Uni they inevitably become shite. See Dawson’s Creek and The OC for examples.

AE: And rest in peace, Gossip Girl. When you started creating characters for generation two, you were obviously like, “Where can we get some crazed fans?” And you had this lightbulb moment where you realized “lesbians!”

JB: Oddly, no. I can remember coming up with the lesbian storyline and it was really a case of “Hmm. Twins. One of them is gay. One of them is a queen bee. That might be interesting. Oh, and this Naomi character, she’s kind of headstrong and opinionated. Maybe that would be interesting too.” I never, ever knew it would be so big.

And without sounding like I’m bigging us up as bastions of progressive LGBT fiction, the whole thing never seemed particularly groundbreaking. We just thought it was a sweet, sad love story.

AE: Well, that’s certainly the reason I adore it so much. It’s not a “lesbian” love story. There’s nothing PSA or after school special about it. So the twins came first?

JB: Yes, they were the first idea for the second generation. Me and the writers sat in a hotel conference room and came up with them on the spot – totally built by committee.

AE: Best committee ever. I get a lot of s–t for saying Katie is my favorite character. I want to see a Katie spinoff on telly, and a Katie movie in the cinema, and a line of Katie action figures. Kung Fu Katie Fitch and Party Planner Katie Fitch. The Katie Fitch zebra-striped glam convertible.

JB: Katie is great, I love her too. Meg [Prescott] had acted far less than her sister and really pulled off something quite special, I think. And Georgia Lester really took ownership of that character in series 4 and wrote a great episode for her.

AE: I think Meg added a layer of incredible vulnerability to Katie. So much tenderness. Her series four episode blew me away.

JB: Yeah, it’s a favourite of mine.

AE: When you created Emily and Katie, their dynamic was supposed to be controlling queen bee and overshadowed gay?

JB: Yes, that was the dynamic between the twins, at least initially. As always with Skins, it grew into something a bit more complicated.

AE: Like with all great stories! And then Naomi. Did you always know she would be Emily’s love interest?

JB: As far as I can remember, yes. I mean, we didn’t invent her to be a love interest, but we very quickly partnered her with Emily.

AE: And you were surprised by the reaction? The Naomily Phenomenon?

JB: Yes. It started when we posted the kissing clip on the internet ahead of the episode – and then grew and grew.

AE: And grew and grew and grew.

JB: Yep. And, you know, I’ve heard that fans think I hated the Naomily storyline and phenomenon, which couldn’t be further from the truth. I love it. I love that people have taken two characters that I helped create into their hearts so much.

AE: And not just in the UK. I mean, it’s worldwide. What do you love most about them, as individuals and as a couple?

JB: I love how simple Emily is. How she just wants Naomi’s love and that’s kind of enough for her. I think that’s a very pure thing. I like Naomi because she wants the same thing, but doesn’t know it. I think the success of their characters is down to the simplicity of their dynamic.

AE: Just two girls in love?

JB: I think so. I’m sure people have different opinions on this, but that’s what it is to me. Two girls in love, trying to love each other better.

AE: That’s lovely, Jamie. Do you think they succeed? In loving each other better, I mean? That’s a lot of what series four was about for them: OK, we’ve taken turns f–king it up. Now what?

JB: I think they both made mistakes, but I think in the end they ended up on better terms than the ones they started with. When it started it was chaotic and full of turmoil, with moments of happiness and joy, and continued like that for a while. I think they were both confused – not sexually, though that’s an element. More confused about what they were becoming, or what they should become. I think in the end what they realised that is, if you get it right, there’s something gloriously simple and liberating about love. It was always between them, but it took some time for them to realize.

AE: What’s your favorite Naomily scene?

JB: I love the cat flap scene from Naomi’s episode because it’s gorgeous. And it’s soundtracked by Grouper, who is a genius.

AE: I want to talk about Lily Loveless and Kathryn Prescott for a minute. What they brought to Naomi and Emily still boggles my mind a little bit. It feels like the perfect storm of acting and writing.

JB: Yes, I agree. Lily is super-smart, which is important to the character. But she’s also incredibly soulful and emotional. That dichotomy between head and heart is vital and she got it just right.

AE: Every time Lily cries, I find myself bawling. It’s the weirdest reaction. I’m like, “Make it stop!”

JB: Yeah, me too, it breaks your heart!

Kat has a sweetness and a purity to her too, just like Emily, and a beauty that isn’t easy to define, but is obviously there. You’re just drawn to her.

AE: So, just like their characters!

JB: Well, they are. All our actors are like their characters at least a bit, because we match the actor to the character and the modify the scripts to their own personalities. The actors will always say that they’re not really like their characters, but they really are – not necessarily in actions or even personality, but in fundamental essence.

AE: Maybe that’s part of the authenticity of Skins. I feel like we, as an audience, were lucky that Lily and Kat found the courage to be so vulnerable with one another. The lake scene in Naomi’s episode is obviously a fan favorite for that reason, but I think it has less to do with sex and less with the lesbian thing, and more to do with the “love is love is love” thing.

JB: Yes, I agree.

AE: Do you identify with Naomi or Emily at all?

JB: Both of them. I’ve been both of them at some point in my life.

AE: It’s not easy to be either one of them!

JB: No!

AE: I really loved the final Naomi and Emily scene in series four. I felt like the reveal that Naomi had loved Emily since she was 12 was perfect. It added such a beautiful layer to their relationship.

JB: I love it too. It’s kind of sad, and it’s kind of beautiful: that Naomi has been trying to work out what that love is for 6 years.

AE: When you started working on series three, there was no pressure from Naomily fans because there was no such thing as Naomily. But when it came time for series four, there was a full-blown cult. Did that change the way you wrote them?

JB: It didn’t, and I think that pissed some people off. We continued the story in exactly the way we wanted. A lot of people were telling me that they didn’t want Emily and Naomi to split up or be unhappy because it would set a bad example to young gay people, which to be honest I didn’t have much truck with, and of course, the main through line of the series was turmoil between them. I guess I thought that Skins has never been about ‘setting an example’ before, why should it be that now? So we did what we did. Some liked it. Some didn’t. That’s the way it always is.

AE: I can’t say how glad I am that you did what you did. I loved the honesty and authenticity of series four. I don’t think you should treat gay characters with kid gloves. If you want equality, you treat gay characters the same way you treat every other character. Because that’s exactly what they are.

JB: Exactly. Though I read your recaps, and for you it wasn’t exactly a two-month-long telly watching orgasm, was it? I mean, you didn’t like episode seven.

AE: Honestly, it was almost too real for me, for personal reasons. I wish I’d had more time to digest it. I was watching the episode at 4:00 am and then writing a recap that would go up five hours later. But yeah, it affected me very deeply. I guess that’s the beauty of Skins, though: the way you feel it. I mean, I watch and write about and recap a lot of television, and nothing gets inside me like Skins. A lot of TV characters die and, frankly, I don’t give a s–t.

JB: Well, that’s great. If we can do that, we’re doing our job. I suffer from some pretty nasty mental illnesses myself, and that episode was pretty hard to write too. And it was full of paranoia and dread and fear, but weirdly I think it’s ultimately a positive episode.

AE: Maybe the reaction is a testament to the power of your storytelling ability.

JB: Yeah. But there’s another way of looking at it, which is that some people didn’t like it. Some people thought it was just crap. And I have to listen to that. If I don’t, what am I? An arrogant arsehole convinced he’s a genius and that everyone else is an idiot.

AE: I think there’s a nicer way to protest though. I could have been nicer. If you had it to do again, would you kill Freddie?

JB: Yes.

AE: But he’ll always live on in fan fiction because that is the beauty of the Internet!

JB: Yes!

AE: I was reading a TV theory book recently, and one of the things the author said is that the way viewers take ownership of a show’s characters is directly proportional to how in-tune that show’s creators are with the online fanbase. The more plugged in you are, the more the audience thinks they own the characters. And Skins is very plugged in.

JB: Yes, and we allow our audience to contribute and take part, so they feel a real sense of ownership, which is fine. I love it. But in the end the show is what me and my writers want to do. And our views don’t always line up with the audiences. It’s something that’s true on every show.

AE: So what can you tell me about Skins generation three? Tell me James Fitch is involved.

JB: He isn’t yet, but I am determined to find a way! I’m making it my mission to get him back!

AE: Godspeed, Jamie Brittain! Make that happen! Is Karen involved?

JB: No. There are no returning characters. It’s completely new.

AE: Oh, that’s exciting! Is it still set at Roundview?

JB: Still Roundview, still Bristol. David Blood and Doug are back, actually.

AE: Wow, David Blood seems to really hate teenagers!

JB: Yeah. I love him though. Chris Addison is a genius, and great fun.

AE: Got anymore lesbian characters to take over the world?

JB: I’m afraid, Heather, that you’re going to have to wait and see!

AE: Aww, come on, Jamie Brittain! Aren’t you going to give me a little sccop?

JB: Hmm. OK. One of the characters in the next generation is very much in the tradition of Skins portrayal of sexuality, but you wont quite know what or who she is for quite a while.

AE: Oh, man. That sounds so exciting.

JB: Yeah, it’s pretty cool.

AE: No, I’m serious. I just got giddy. So where are you in your shooting schedule?

JB: We’re shooting episodes two and three. We’re about to start week three of shooting those episodes.

AE: Do you know yet when they’ll air?

JB: January and February of next year – a long way to go, I’m afraid.

AE: That’s OK! The foreplay is half the fun!

JB: Yep!

AE: That actually reminds me, why didn’t Naomi have her own episode in series four?

JB: We always intended the last episode of series 4 to be Naomi’s, but it didn’t quite work out how we wanted. We messed that up a bit – but I think you’ll agree that we did her story justice.

AE: Yes. You know I agree. You’ve read my recap. Lily Loveless was unbelievable in that final episode. She was kind of magical.

JB: Yeah, wasn’t she? I loved that.

AE: So did you always want to be a writer?

JB: Yeah. I never thought I’d write for telly, but it’s always been the only thing I’m good at. I think that once Skins is done, I’ll might write an out and out comedy, like a sitcom maybe.

AE: And would this sitcom star Megan Prescott? And would it be called I’m Katie F–king Fitch?

JB: Honestly, if Roni, John, Meg, Kat and Red wanted to do it, I’d make the Fitch sitcom. But something tells me they wouldn’t! Either way I’d only produce. Georgia would have to write it. She’s the Fitch god.

AE: Well, at the very least I think you should get on those Katie Fitch action figures. I want her to talk, too, like Woody from Toy Story. Only instead of “Howdy, Partner” she’ll say “I’m doing the f–king Great Northern Run; what does it look like I’m doing!?” and “She dumped you. Again.” Also, you know, maybe she’ll be wearing an angel costume.

JB: OK, but first up is is the Cook doll that keeps screaming ‘I’m Coooook! I’m Cooook!’ until you beat it to death with a baseball bat.

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