Transgenders... The ultimate bisexual fantasy?

I am into manly men and very feminine women, so all in-betweens (androgyny, butch women, feminine men) are not for me, sexually and emotionally speaking. BUT I don't define masculinity or femininity through genitals, so a very feminine MTF pre-op transsexual or very masculine FTM pre-op transsexual would be no issue at all. The gender the person identifies with is what counts, and who if not a bisexual would know that sex isn't about what's between the legs..? And I have met transsexuals that certainly made my knees a bit wobbly... ;-)

And there is also a certain appeal to men who understand 100% what it is like to be a woman because they experienced it for themselves. My opposite sex relationships tended to be strained by a certain divide or rather misunderstanding between the genders.

I like feminine girls and masculine guys. I don't need both in a person.

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""My love life is terrible. The last time I was inside a woman was when I visited the Statue of Liberty."

God, no.

I like manly men and girlie girls.

As a change myself, I think "Ultimate bi fantasy"?

Probably not, but possibly.  And you might meet a really nice person with a perspective you won't find elsewhere.

While we are usually thought of as having no real perspective on gender, in fact changes, in both directions, are the only one's with any experience in both genders, and may indeed be more sensitive to the needs of either one.

But we also must remember that TG's are often coping with a host of real problems otherwise, both medical and mental, in an increasingly hostile situation it seems lately. And so they are not likely rocks of stability, emotionally or practically that some partners may want.

I've know a great many TG's through the years and I'm always saying that as a group, there is no other group as diverse, with people coming from all kinds of situations and backgrounds, with all kinds of different intents and views.  So we almost defy such discussions by our very diverse nature.

I've had relations with several, and have cried togeteher in the arms of some.  But mostlt these have been relationships of necessity. One girl said she never really wanted a steady relationship with another change because then she'd more likely be "read" herself.  And that was a long time ago before being "read" became such public sport.

But I'm glad and privledged to have known the peers I have.  Most want to eventually try to establish some kind of normal existence outside the realm and label of "Transgender"  Some of us aren't as lucky, and these are indeed tough times lately.  Everyone wants a piece of us, or to play "Jerry" with us somehow, and it's disgusting. Most are not experienced drag queens but some are.

Lay people tend to think we're all about sex.  But it's really about identity.

We don't do this out of defiance, or avoidance either- a host of other issues people want to bring into it and toss out at us (work, military, obligations to existing partners or family)  It's really an overwhelming compulsion involving identity, and I look at it in my own experience as a neccessity, and not a choice

I alone know how terribly unhappy i'd be if I hadn't followed this road, and although it's difficult, I've never once regretted my decision

Future public enemy?

i would say that there is no fantasy involved. in fact the mentality of "having your cake and eating it too" is almost never the reality...this is a really hard process and it ruins relationships faster than it takes to build one.

also i believe that most TG's would take issue with your "have your cake and eat it too" mentality because they are so disgusted with being trapped in the wrong body that there is no joy to be had in that.

As a woman dating a transsexual (male to female), I have to say that it is not the 'ultimate bisexual fantasy'. We have a lot of fun and it is kind of exciting, but at the same time the whole experience is very emotionally taxing. I had been with him for six years before he came out to me. So it is exciting to gain a girlfriend, but at the same time very difficult and upsetting at times to be losing the boyfriend. Name change and voice change are probably the most difficult parts with which to deal.

So, for me it's not any sort of fantasy. Transition is a rough ride (no, not the good way). Even for two people who love one another and are still sexually attracted to one another, transition is physical, emotional, and mental. It's complete. Even attitudes and moods change. Being with a woman or with a man is nice, but going through that process of the transition is something else all together. It is stressful and difficult to get through.

I would have to say no, and this may be me just getting caught up in semantics...
 The term "bisexual" limits attraction to the two main genders (i.e, male and female).
However, "pansexuals" are open to male, female and those who may be in between.

an ultimate bisexual fantasy. If the Bi wanted a TS because he or she was the perfect fantasy that would be rather selfish. Unless the TS wanted to remain inbetween  genders.

I think then the person having the fantasy would be taking advantage of the TS, if they were after the TS just because of the fact they were between genders. I think most TS would not be happy wanting to stay inbetween just to please their partner. 

But I remember having a conversation at university that some TS are used this way, and they get wrapped up in the attention they put up with it.

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what happened to you, to make you more girl then girls are ?

As a woman who is sexually attracted to women, I don't think I'm really qualified in exploring bisexual fantasies. Period. Let alone those that involve transgendered individuals. Although, from your comments and based on my own personal views, I think I’d be more inclined to side with the majority. At the risk of offending some, casing the topic in a lesbian frame for a moment would effectively imply that lesbians must have it so much easier, seeing as the burden of choice is eliminated. Statistically, perhaps, but bisexual, lesbian or otherwise with half the population eliminated, the burden of choice still remains and let’s not forget bull dykes, denim dykes, diesel dykes, lipstick lesbians, chap stick lesbians etc, but I digress. ;) As interesting as this topic is, on a more serious note, I find that the transgendered issue is largely overlooked, perhaps like many contentious topics because it raises so many issues and doesn’t quite have any concrete answers.

Bar the odd gender transition documentary, our own personal experiences and much of those internet sites genuinely documenting the change, much exposure lies in the negative arena and much ‘education’ and misconception is perpetuated through pornography and the sex industry. Having thought about transgendered issues plenty, running into a handful and having a friend planning on undertaking the transition, I found your response of particular interest, leavesoflorien. Although I can’t relate on a personal level myself, I thank you for sharing such intimate details and can only imagine how hard the transition must be for both you and your partner. Having completely veered off the topic, it must be very difficult when the challenge in obtaining happiness lies in the bending and breaking of barriers implemented by the world we live in. All the best to those who may be transitioning or may know someone who is.

The first rule of Bingo Club is - you do not talk about Bingo Club.

Transguys definitely do it for me.  I find I need an element of queerness to be present as well.  I have a hard time dating those not comfortable in queer environments or with my ID as a queer.  I don't want to live my life stealth, so if we are talking about transguys who have transitioned, I would hope they would be out (and proud) as trans at least to friends. 

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Confined to sex we pressed against the limits of the sea.  I saw there were no oceans left for scavengers like me.

 - L. Cohen

This sounds like you have encountered your ultimate fantasy, and if the transgendered person is aware of and comfortable with your thoughts, then I'm happy for you that you found what you wanted--though I wish you hadn't made this about bisexual people. This is not on, under, or anywhere around my fantasy list. I'm not at all attracted to transgendered people. I'm attracted to men (the masculine-looking ones), I'm attracted to women (the very feminine-looking ones), but not when they're mixed up into one body or when the body is modified from one sex to another. I don't claim to be attracted to only the soul of a person (some say they are, and it sounds nice and idealistic in theory, but I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced...although I might be brought around if someone making that claim falls in love with a contagiously diseased 95-year-old who through pure bad luck has had to live for years in his own filth in a box by the side of the road, yet has maintained a wise, beautiful, loving soul. Find him, love him, love him again, and you have me persuaded). Personally, I'm attracted to the soul, mind and body of a person. Therefore not all of us suscribe to this "sole love of soul" belief you implied in your post.

As a bisexual, I can't say it's my 'ultimate fantasy' ... I would be fine with dating a TS, but it's not, like, a fetish for me.  I'd tend to see them as the gender they are transitioning to, as a girl or boy, rather than a trans-person.

However ... my boyfriend is bi and it is a big fantasy for him. He is not really attracted to guys themselves, just *ahem* penises, so for him a MtF transsexual really is the best of both worlds.

I could see myself dating a trans person, but it's not a big fantasy for me or anything. Gender isn't irrelevant to me, and I actually find it most attractive when it's more clearly defined. I tend to be the most attracted to women who are pretty feminine looking, and men who are kind of in the middle, leaning towards the more masculine end, though I don't have any hard and fast rules or anything.

Just because either a man or a woman can be good, doesn't mean that a male-female 'hybrid' is going to be a lot more attractive, or anything. If I fell for someone who was trans, I'd want to make it work, but I can't see myself seeking one out just to fulfill a fantasy (that I don't have).

At the risk of insulting transgendered people...

The ultimate bisexual fantasy? No. Not at all. And I don't see the correlation.

I like men and women, but a person in limbo between those genders isn't like a big bonus or anything. That's probably because my reason for being bisexual has nothing to do with gender roles, body parts, or anything else related to gender. I'm not one of those "gotta have both" bisexuals. :?

Just for reference, I'm not 'one of those bisexuals' either.. the thread topic was kind of a joke to get people to check it out. For me, the whole trans thing is interesting not because it appeals to me because I need to have both genders... but because transgendered people themselves are so open to opposition of traditional gender roles- something a lot of us bisexuals can relate to.

Okay... you know, you could give someone the willies with the stereotype jokes. :P

I dunno, I don't consider bisexual gender roles any different from, say, lesbians or gay men. Some people are "typical" and others aren't. But then again, I'm pretty sheltered. :)

Hmm. I'm not especially attracted to trans people, although I do have a soft spot for genderqueers. I don't like the idea of transpeople as being the 'best of both worlds'- I guess I see a trans girl as just being a girl and vice-versa. Like, say, I'm into girly boys and boyish girls, right? But I'm not into boyshaped femmey girls all that much, 'cause femmey girls just don't do it for me that often, trans or not. Know what I mean? It's kinda all about the energy I get from someone, not what shape the energy is in, and girl-femme is totally diffrent from boy-femme and vice versa.

On the other hand, genderqueer energy is just plain hot. Really, really, totally hot.

Interesting topic. Once again, koma, you have spoken for me but I guess I'll stop riding your coattails long enough to add my own two cents. :wink:

I don't know... as I've said before, for me gender is such a non-issue and because of that I don't think I could possibly ever have a relationship with someone for whom gender is of such importance. I would imagine that my "nonchalant" approach to gender would be insulting to them and I would never want that person to think that I was belittling them because of my belief that gender is irrelevant.

On the other hand, I found Jaye Davidson really attractive in The Crying Game so... :?

I actually see transgendered people as proof that gender is irrelevant, or...if not irrelevant, at least not binary or black and white. I would happily date a transgendered person, not in a best of both worlds way, but you know...

I guess I'm attracted more to women who break gender rules, so for me a tranny boy is awesome. And I love genderqueers. :heart:

Well I personally haven't met any transgenders myself, so I can't really say I'm attracted or not-attracted to them I guess. Although I had to say, "The Surreal Life"'s Alexis Arquette I find VERY VERY hot! :D :wink: