Relationship Roles with Women vs. Men

With a woman I'm vulnerable and with a man, I'm always scared to get into a relationship so I keep them as friends most of the time ... For a woman, I would open the door completly ... and that could totally hurt me cause I feel like she could do anything she wants with me and that could bad ...

"Seize the day or die regretting the time you lost"

With women I tend to be more boi-ish and more dominating.  With men I'm more femme and submissive. I guess with men I just revert back to stereotypical gender roles. I hate it but we're socially conditioned to behave that way. With women I'm feel I can be more vulnerable, trusting, accepting, and effectionate. It's hard to connect with men emotionally and it's frustrating. I suppose I have some control issues with men but I prefer women to men hands down so it's not a pressing issue.

Well, like wryterzblock said, some men are pigs. However, in my experience, some women are pigs too. I've had experiences where both my boyfriend or girlfriend would try to dominate the relationship and just be downright jerks, and also the other way around. I know that this really isn't necessarily true in other relationships, but in my exp., the effort, pain, attachment, dominance, submission, love, etc., were pretty much equal between men and women.

That is interesting.

I do seem to have control issues with men. From my limited experience, it was hard to be as open to/vulnerable with a man as it is with women b/c I was worried about being controlled by him. I also think he sometimes thought I was bossy. Which was actually quite surprising to me as I do tend to be seen as a bit submissive in my relationships with women. I think it might have been b/c I'd never dated a guy before, and so I missed all that socialization.

Perhaps submissive with woman (less than a complete balance) is different than submissive with men (something approaching equal is seen as aggressive for a woman?) Or, maybe it was just me...

This is interesting. I'm going to reply, though I don't think I'm really bi--I have dated a few guys, but the more I work things out the more I tend to realise that I just don't feel the same way for guys as I do for girls. I still have issues with that, but yeah.

I find, even with friends, that I kind of resent it when guys put me into a stereotypically female role. Like when a male friend insists on holding doors/buying me things. It's not that I think less of him, and I would NEVER say anything, but I feel slightly uncomfortable. Like I'm being seen more as a girl than just a person.

However, I have this female friend (she's straight) who always holds doors for me, pays for my food...we're almost playacting. And I *love* this. I really get into it.

I don't know if it's because I tend not to be into guys, or because society's expectations annoy me, or what. It's actually hard for me to admit this, because I don't want to be seen as man-hating, when it's not really about that. I try actually NOT to feel this way, but it's hard. I often kind of resent, or feel uncomfortable, when guys very clearly see them as Guy, me as The Other. And I tend not to get that feeling with women, even those who prefer to be in the more stereoptically 'masculine' role. We can switch with ease, and it doesn't feel like they get uptight or tense about it.

this has to be my favorite thread on afterellen. i adore everyone for contributing and encourage anyone else to please reply too!

Great topic for discussion.
I find myself almost always taking a submissive role when dating men or women. The difference is that with men I feel more "dominated" or "controlled" and with women I feel "protected". and "spoiled". It sounds like I'm a doormat, but I'm really not - just a Southern Belle - I'm very nuturing but want and need the strength of a dominant partner, even though I am a very independent career woman.

Great topic!

I’ve never felt a true equal in the relationships I’ve had with men, there’s always been a traditional gender dynamic and I always found it hard to take control with some of guys I’ve dated. Also, I’ve found there’s less negotiation in the relationships I’ve had with men, due to the fact that such relationships are socially normalised with set patterns of behaviour and rules for male/female relations. The only truly equal relationship I’ve had is the one I’m now in with a woman, there’s much more negotiation and communication and that’s mainly due to the lack of pre-defined roles.

Of course, it’s possible to have such a relationship with a man but I think, on the whole, (making a sweeping generalisation here) the unequal gender dynamic exists in most male/female relations (in my experience).

I’d love to hear other people’s thoughts on this topic.

Well, I tend to date men and women on the complete opposite spectrum personality wise. I date men that fit all the norms of masculine heterosexual male and I like being overwhelmed by their presence. I don't like to think of it as being submissive because I'm a strong woman. With women, I'm a lot more guarded not because of them but because I know we'll have to deal with alot of shit when we venture out so I have my game face on.
I have to be alot more diplomatic with men, especially if I like them then I have to do with women. And there is always subconscious power struggle with men. Always. I can enjoy it from time to time but after a while it gets tiresome and by them I've already got feelings involved. It doesn't end pretty. I've never felt that power struggle with women and when we do end, we end amicably. This is why I have so few male friends.

i feel a lot like what everyone else has been saying. (actually i know a girl in grad school doing a thesis on this topic! and i think she's doing it on if you change to be more masculine or femminie depending on the gender of your partner.)

i feel more equal with relationships with women. i don't know if that's because i haven't had any examples or what.

with men it seems more like i'm more focused on beig independent and end up being bossy, when in reality i feel like they should take care of me more.

i don't know i that made sense. i hadn't given this much thought until the graduate student interviewed me for her project.

i think this is a cool topic. i've enjoyed everyone's answers. :)

...

[quote:e3aa951cc6="zz_fan123"][quote:e3aa951cc6="francesfrances"]
with men it seems more like i'm more focused on beig independent and end up being bossy, when in reality i feel like they should take care of me more.[/quote:e3aa951cc6]

That's how I felt when I used to date guys...thought I was the only one that felt that way.[/quote:e3aa951cc6]

Yeah - that was the situation for me, too.

[quote:4fcb4f5699="ronia"][quote:4fcb4f5699="zz_fan123"][quote:4fcb4f5699="francesfrances"]
with men it seems more like i'm more focused on beig independent and end up being bossy, when in reality i feel like they should take care of me more.[/quote:4fcb4f5699]

That's how I felt when I used to date guys...thought I was the only one that felt that way.[/quote:4fcb4f5699]

Yeah - that was the situation for me, too.[/quote:4fcb4f5699]

wow i figured i was weird and the only one who felt like that.

where are you both now? dating women or men?

it seems like people sometimes like to say bisexuality is all about "i dont care what the gender is, i fall in love with the person," an ideology with which i agree to an extent.

but i do think gender matters, and , at least i care. i think i care because i cannot get myself out of separating men and women. it's hard to get them out of the two categories.

i dont know if this makes sense, i apologize for the awkward rambling.

[quote:c2fd34a066="francesfrances"]where are you both now? dating women or men?[/quote:c2fd34a066]

Right now, I'm at a point where I'm not interested in dating anyone. Which is not something I ever expected to happen (I always seemed to have one crush or another) but which actually is kind of nice. My last relationship was with a woman. When I do feel like dating again, I think I'm more likely to go for a woman, because I'm more often attracted to women and also because I feel like I relate to women differently than I relate to men.

One other part of the equation - I also think my being bi (or, a guy knowing that I'm bi/have dated women) is another factor that will make a relationship with a guy more complicated/less likely to suceed. No matter how progressive or well adjusted a guy seems at first, I think that this will at least in part define how he sees me, and not necessarily in a good way. In my particular case, I would say, in retrospect, that he felt comfortable assuming that I was promiscuous, and something of a sexual exotic, b/c of it. :roll:

[quote:c2fd34a066]it seems like people sometimes like to say bisexuality is all about "i dont care what the gender is, i fall in love with the person," an ideology with which i agree to an extent.

but i do think gender matters, and , at least i care. i think i care because i cannot get myself out of separating men and women. it's hard to get them out of the two categories.[/quote:c2fd34a066]

I don't think that's rambling. When found myself with a crush on a guy, I decided that maybe I should explore it based on that philosophy. But what I found is that, even if I can be attracted to both sexes, whether a person is a man or a woman does seem to impact how we relate to each other.

That isn't to say that relationships with women are "easy." Any relationship between two people is a complicated thing, regardless of the gender of the people involved. At this point, though, I just feel like there is more potential for connection in a relationship with a woman.

In my own experience, for the most part, I've found that dating women is WAAAAAY more difficult in terms of my bisexuality (although I usually prefer to date women) unless that woman is also bisexual, but then that also leaves room for trouble:

I do know that there are wonderful, well adjusted lesbians in the world out there somewhere who have no problem dating a bisexual woman... I just seldom come across them in my neck of the woods. It's an issue that always rears its ugly little head- when is the other shoe going to fall and I run back to men?

Dating a bi woman isn't always a thrill either. I came to the realization that despite my own belief in monogamy, SOME of the bi girls I dated felt absolutely entitled to playing the field with guys. One of them went so far as to flirt with men whenever we'd go out together.

Generally, dating guys has just been easier for me. Some men are pigs, (not ALL of them-don't get me wrong), but there's far less mindf@#king involved. With the exception of one, there were never any issues of my leaving for a woman. It was so much easier for me to deal with the standard "let's have a threesome" suggestion as opposed to having to deal with someone who day in and day out thought you were scanning the classifieds for ze penis.

In terms of relationship roles, I find that when dating a guy, [i:fed581d350]sometimes[/i:fed581d350] I will sit back and let myself be catered to, I think mostly because when I date women, I do so much catering. I generally want to take care of anyone in my life, that's just the way I am. And it seems that women seem to appreciate that more than men.

(I do just want to add that not ALL of my relationships have been faulty. I've dated wonderful women who could have cared less what my sexual orientation was, and I've dated wonderful men who weren't the least bit interested in threesomes or preoccupied with girl on girl sex.)

I'm so glad people are responding to this! It's something I've wondered about for awhile.