I got a 273 and for an American I was deemed "very progressive." Were you shocked to see some of the questions that were being asked because they're considered "issues" when in your society (I'm assuming) they're givens?
I wouldn't say shocked, I spend enough time around Americans to be aware of a lot that's going on. But stuff like health care and education continues to baffle me. No offense to anyone, and not that my country doesn't have huge problems too, but I'm so glad I'm here and not in America.
put it this way: someone I know has type 2 diabetes. this person, of course, needs regularly treatment. however, under her plan, she has a $5000 deductible, which means she must shell out $5000 OUT OF POCKET before any benefits kick in... and did I mention this person is in her 60s, works a 9-5 minimum wage job, and doesn't have a HS degree? yes... the sort of people who would have $5000 just lying around... :T
I think that as Americans, we really need to redefine the American dream!
Yeah. That's one of the things I just can't wrap my head around. I only have a high school education and earn minimum wage (which isn't all that low here), and my father has a PhD and earns twice what I do. I pay 30% in taxes and he pays 50%, so what we end up with isn't all that different. Healthcare and education is free. Of course, there are cut-backs, and more and more students per teacher, and more and more patients per doctor, and the wait time for health care is getting longer and longer, and people are working un-paid overtime everywhere, and it's clearly not working well, but I do trust in the system that it will treat me fairly and the same as every other citizen regardless of means. And I approve of that.
Did you just say "education" and "free" in the same sentence? But... but... but... that's... WIIITCH! :D hahaha!
Honestly, I will be paying off my undergraduate degree for another 8 years. Woo hoo! :| That's partly the reason why I decided to come to Spain for grad school - it was a choice between a good education that cost $100,000+ or a good education that cost -EUR (I get paid to be here, yay for socialism!). can't beat that!
I wish I knew what it was like to have complete faith in your government in times of crises. Must be so nice! I should try out Scandinavia... :)
Well, the education itself is free, and you get a small allowance from the government each months, but you still have to live and eat and stuff, so most people do have student loans that they spend lots of years paying off. Only the education itself is free.
And there's a difference between trusting that I will be treated fairly, and having complete faith in the government. :P They mess up ALL THE TIME, on all kinds of things, serious and less so. And in times of crises they have proven themselves to be less then stellar at handling them. I hope and believe that they are fair, my faith in them, eh, so-so. ;)
OK, that's better. :| Ugh. Now see, at least in the US I'm happy that gov't functions well 75% of the time. Too depressing! Let's just start our own country! How about that?
"Liberal United States of AE"
Gov't: Republic: Every resident of age gets a vote!
Major export: Consulting, organic foods, biofuels
Major imports:(hmmm...)
Do you know any rich persons who are proprietors of an island big enough to fit everybody who wants to join willing to give it away to us??? :D
BTW, it's open to everybody who'd like to join! :D
You know Kauai, one of the Hawaiian islands? I say we commandeer that one. ;) Warm enough for you?
That's a good idea for imports, btw. Oh, do you think we'd make our own tanktops or should we import those as well? Dunno about you, but I can't wear anything other than tanks...
I love the internet-decked bamboo huts...
Let's make it happen! Any issues that arise will be resolved by our popularly elected representatives for our little republic. :D
Ooooh. Hawaii sounds awesome, I've always wanted to visit!
I think tank tops will be smuggled, because officially we'll be making our own, but the organic tank tops hand-woven from reeds will just be so uncomfortable that there will be a large black market for smuggled tanktops out of non-organic cotton and synthetics. Also lace underwear for the femmes.
How about pets? Any rules?
I'm looking forwad to this, it's just getting better and better!
Haha, reed-y tanks! Yeah, maybe we should just not try and make our own and import them altogether. Lace underwear for those who want 'em sounds great! (I, for one, preferthe CK rib shorts, but since it's our great lil' island, there will also be imports on these for people w/ the same preferences as me) :D
Pets are allowed, but owners must always pick up after their pets! No brown rolls on the beach, pls. :D But pets are great! Should there be a restriction on the size of the pet, i.e., should we allow people to bring their pet cows?
Yeah, I'm not much for lace either, I'm fond of the MyWear hipsters, which, however, apparently can't even be bothered with a website, much less a picture. But I certainly don't mind lace on someone who enjoys wearing it. :D
There could be a farming community that would have their own allocated area in which to keep larger animals. Only house pets allowed in the beach huts. Also, if there's a farming community we'd have more left of our budget to spend on important things like pretty ladies and feminist theory textbooks, if we can get locally produced food.
Hmm. What else would be integral to an AE society? Some sort of sporting whatever? I'm not into sports, but I hear there are lots of lesbians who are...
I have recently discovered my love of not only watching but also PLAYING football. In fact, I have a bulky and black knee injury right now from a recent match. (Mind you, I'm not a good dribbler, I'm just terrific at running back and forth to intimidate the other players.) We should also have beach volleyball courts. I love beach volleyball. Ooh ooh, and American footballs. I love a game of tackle (american) football on the sand. But,I have some friends who are ball-deficient, so we ought to have board games for them, too. And perhaps some yoga/pilates for people who aren't (or think they aren't) coordinated enough for sports.
A farming community sounds great! Kudos on that plan! Even though I'm a carnivore, I would like to throw out there that we should reconsider / not have cow meat consumption... I love Bessy, but it's so bad for the environment. We ought to do it right this time around, what do you think?
I eat meat when I'm served meat somewhere, but rarely buy it for
myself, so I'd have no problem having the cows for milk purposes only.
Great source of calcium for those who aren't lactose intolerant! But
we'd have to make sure the farming community cultivated a wide variety
of plants from which to derive varied and healthy food. And also, being
on an island, maybe we could allow fishing? It's not great for the
ocean, but some species are thriving more than others, and it is so
very healthy to eat fish.
We need to set the sports up so it's spectator-friendly, I think we can recruit lots of people that way.
Speaking
of recruit, we need recruitment plans (and also citizen-ship-tests).
"Have you ever used the word 'gay' in a deregatory way? Yes/No. Have
you ever participated in taking away the human rights of minority
groups? Yes/No. Provided you are granted citizenship and have answered
'Yes' to any of the above questions means you will have to attend 6
mandatory homophile reassessment seminars."
...and you feed her for a day; teach a lesbian to fish and you feed her for a lifetime. :D I'm all for Omega-3!!!!!!
Love your citizenship test. May I suggest we also include - assuming we're also letting men in the island, but I'm cool if you want to keep them in a "visitors-only" status - we should also include a "have you ever objectified women" sort of test, you know? And if the answer is yes, they must be subjected to an intensive 7-day, 10-hour education seminar on one of our many embassies throughout the world.
I'm from the same country as fallon ash, but I'm not so keen on our system (nor climate). I pay rediculously high taxes. After eight years you've paid off your degree. I didn't pay for mine, but will pay over fifty percent (nearly seventy depending on how you count) of my income for the rest of my life, unless I move oversees (which I plan to do, like most of my family).
50% of your income going to taxes... I really don't know how to feel about that! Right now, I'm pissed that CA is still lagging on my income tax refund, stupid lazy... oh yeah, I'm Californian. :D
I guess I should cancel my plans to join that survivalist commune in the Ozarks where I was going to wait for the imminent collapse of the global financial order by by learning how to cook with shoe leather while cornering the market on surplus Ka-Bars and Vietnam era C ration overstocks.
Figures, the world is finally going to hell in a handbasket and it turns out I'm a liberal bleedling heart loser clinging to the apron strings of the nanny state! Thanks for nothing QU33R! :p
If only if I had spent more quality time watching Glenn Beck...
Tigerlily: How on earth are you not on the CIA's watch list? You might come over here and mislead our children to thinking violence is wrong or something! Or you might convince them to...I dunno... be one of those hippie loving tree huggers or something!
>.< That said I scored 307/400. Not bad, I say!
~Without risk, there can be no innovation. Without innovation, there can be no advancement. ~
“Not only can man’s being not be understood without
madness, it would not be man’s being if it did not bear madness within
itself as the limit of his freedom.”
I'm in Spain right now and a bit reluctant to return to the US. :P I have to mention also that in my Spanish law classes, I spent 60% of the time w/ my chin dropped because of all of the socialist theories that are found in the LAW. one time I had my mouth dropped until my friends began laughing at me because I just couldn't believe what I was hearing. Sometimes I get uncomfortable hearing all of the "socialist stuff" that is discussed in class!
But I am Canadian, so I guess that is somewhat understandable.
I am Extremely Progressive.
The vast socio-political differences by country is really interesting. They should have begun the quiz with a poll allowing each quiz maker to select their country of origin. Then they could have come out with a bunch of nifty graphs and charts.
It would be fascinating to see the differences represented visually. *is a nerd*
I think all of you ecoterrorist socialist commies are skewing the results! Experts might start thinking America doesn't need any work because it's "o so liberal!" ;)
(BTW, I'm the ecoterrorist socialist commie... sorry to project that onto you there)
295/400. I think continuum-based responses can be a little misleading due to their subjectivity when comparing to other people. How much difference is there between someone who answers 7 or 8 (or 2/3) to a question?
Plus, some of the questions' wording was a little too skewed for my taste.
I'm socially libertarian, but fiscally conservative. I'm for ending the war on drugs, all vice crimes being decriminallized, anti-religion, pro-choice, anti-war/imperialism, want the insane cost of healthcare regulated, slashing the budget of the Dept. of War (they call it Defense) and putting it into Dept. of Education, implementing the fair tax, etc.
Yeah the questions we're abit skewed, tohugh i do have a couple for you *deep breath thinking "here we go again"*
ending the war on drugs: you want it ended even though its become cyclically-escalating? (the criminal "corporations" having either "died" or "built up" to weather the "war" requiring greater effort by law enforcement, rinse repeat).
all vice crimes decriminalized: would that be including child prostitution?
anti-religion: doesnt that ironically (if i understood your term) make you "Faithist", as many in religions can sometimes be "sexist/sexualist"?
dept of defense: you want the budget slashed, but do you -actually- fully know what the dept of "war" spends on? (figure this one out, they get billions, but cant properly equip thier soldiers with items that cost a few cents, where's the money really going?)
education should also get a boost though *s*
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
ending the war on drugs: you want it ended even though its become cyclically-escalating? (the criminal "corporations" having either "died" or "built up" to weather the "war" requiring greater effort by law enforcement, rinse repeat).
I want drugs to be decriminalized. Prohibition didn't work. Put the money into substance abuse treatment. Get a half million people out of prison instantly. The War on Drugs is a failure, has sent our prison system into crisis, and fosters narcoterrorism. Take the money out of it. Regulate it and tax it. There are plenty of existing laws on the books to cover being drunk/drugged in public, DUI, etc.
Quote:
all vice crimes decriminalized: would that be including child prostitution?
No, because they can't give consent. But anything that an adult wants to do with their own body is just fine with me.
Quote:
anti-religion: doesnt that ironically (if i understood your term) make you "Faithist", as many in religions can sometimes be "sexist/sexualist"?
To the point that one religion can enforce its will on others who do not believe the same way, then absolutely.
Quote:
dept of defense: you want the budget slashed, but do you -actually- fully know what the dept of "war" spends on? (figure this one out, they get billions, but cant properly equip thier soldiers with items that cost a few cents, where's the money really going?)
Of course not. No one does since so much of it is classified. The point is just this: they get hundreds of billions and waste it. And when I say give it to the DoE, what I really mean is get it to the schools. While we're at it, make sure all schools get the money, not just the affluent districts that get lots of property taxes.
And while I'm at it, flip the salaries for the administrators and teachers. It's the teachers who should be getting $75k/year not the other way around. How about some damn priorities here.
I want drugs to be decriminalized. Prohibition didn't work. Put the
money into substance abuse treatment. Get a half million people out of
prison instantly. The War on Drugs is a failure, has sent our prison
system into crisis, and fosters narcoterrorism. Take the money out of
it. Regulate it and tax it. There are plenty of existing laws on the
books to cover being drunk/drugged in public, DUI, etc.
Prohibition
doesnt (and never actually will work, you make a thing forbidden it
becomes more attractive, you make a product "illegal" some oppurtunist
-will- find a way to provide it at a far greater cost and without tax
being paid), "Permission" also creates its own problems, the middle
ground "Regulated" is usually the best option, unfortunatly with the
drug business, the "war" made some "companies" so strong (in order to
survive), that lessening the (insufficent) "pressure" on them will only
permit radical expansion, unfortunatly (having lived and worked in a
rehab for three years) i can honestly say -nothing- that you can throw
money at actually works so far (there is research into
treatments that "block" the effects of cocaine, making a dependant user
"immune" to it) ive found and this is echo'd by many who have been in
the rehab sector that till the person -genuinely- "wants" it, it wont
happen. increasing substance abuse treatment funding while always a
good thing, isnt really effective right now, all that really works (and
not always) is education from a young age, drugs are a "business", no
demand for what your selling = bankrupcy, i think some (not you it
seems) are too quick to jump on certain popular liberal idea's.
Quote:
No, because they can't give consent. But anything that an adult wants to do with their own body is just fine with me.
*s*
here's where it gets abit grey, all adults can give "consent", but not
all adults understand the consent they're giving, how do you honestly
judge which adult has "Right Will" (a Will truely of thier own,
untainted) and which adult just has "Will" (a Will that can be
subjective(due to mental/emotional disorder/disability), influenced or
coerced) part of why prositution is historically "illegal" is to
protect/give enforcement officers grounds/the ability to "protect" or
"rescue" someone, who will -say- "its my choice", when infact it isnt,
its the choice of the person who will kill them if they say or do
otherwise, personally i think this is another area that should be
"regulated" rather than Prohibited.
(and "Right Will" is a concept that came about because of the Human Rights conventions flaws)
Quote:
To the point that one religion can enforce its will on others who do not believe the same way, then absolutely.
this
is kind of simply solved, but needs abit of green, there are Laws
relating to equal/human rights, part of what keeps humans "in check" is
"fear", freedom of expression is nice, but a very unrefined concept,
oneday soon we will see a "white" person take a person of another
"minority" to court for racially motivated harm, equality is a
double-edged sword, those who demand it -must- also give it, because to
only demand it does nothing but tip the scale of equality from
one-"side" to the other, for it to work, All must demand and ALL must
give it, and so far the demanding of it hasnt equaled out, its been
lopsided, the grandchildren of the "oppressors" are too afraid to
demand thier own right for equality incase its veiwed as just another
example of "oppression"/****ism/***ly motivated, one day however a
mainstream "church" will be taken to court and sued for damages
inflicted (weirder cases have won), one day people who are normally
demanded of by organised religions will demandthe religions give
equality too.
Quote:
Of course not. No one does since so much of it is classified. The
point is just this: they get hundreds of billions and waste it. And
when I say give it to the DoE, what I really mean is get it to the
schools. While we're at it, make sure all schools get the money, not
just the affluent districts that get lots of property taxes.
The
moment it was discoverd the nazi's we're developing a nuclear weapon,
very suddenly the supply shortages sufferd by allied troops got -much-
worse, why? simply R&D, treatments for Sarin/etc didnt just pop-up
out of the goodness of some scientists heart, they came to be because
intelligence on a new weapon was discoverd and R&D into its
countermeasures began, this is -very- expensive, and sick people, for
fun/for free develop new and weird weapons of all kinds all the time,
where as those charged to defend "the people" have to pay to have
countermeasures to these weapons, that "DR frankienstien" could have
had years of free-time to mess with, made -fast-, that's where alot of
DoD money goes, R&D of countermeasures/weapons, the only
countermeasure to the atomic bomb was to be the one's to develop it
"first", the reason such budgets are classified, is statistics, while
it would be nice for joe public (us) to see if our money is being spent
well, just like, with enough "results" from a lotto machine and set of
lotto balls one can with about 70%-95% predict the numbers to come up
next week, with a few years DoD budget one could predict next years
budget and plan an attack on that (high R&D means low forces
funding, so a few rumours of a new weapon to ensure the enemies R&D
funding is high while bumping up funding for own forces, own forces
more likely to win).
sometimes funding is used neglectfully, sometimes it isnt.
Quote:
flip the salaries for the administrators and teachers. It's the
teachers who should be getting $75k/year not the other way around. How
about some damn priorities here.
*s*
a nice ideal that i partly agree with, but, the reason
admins/bosses/presidents get more wage than "lower-level" employees
(however crucial/more work intensive thier job might be) is, "trust" in
an ideal world we would be able to trust our leaders to be "unbuyable",
this isnt an ideal world though, so those in positions of
responsibility tend to get paid more, higher up you are more your paid
so your less likely to be "brought", wages sadly arent and cant be
determined soley by the work you do (hence why the boss of a fastfood
chain may get paid millions for sitting on his @ss all day and the poor
souls working themselves to death "on the ground" get nickels).
*s* as ever, a pleasure talking to one of your intelliegence and convictions.
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
unfortunatly with the
drug business, the "war" made some "companies" so strong (in order to
survive), that lessening the (insufficent) "pressure" on them will only
permit radical expansion,
Not a good enough reason to keep the status quo. Something has to change. If you take the illicit money out of the equation, they'll eventually die. If nothing changes, they'll only get bigger.
Quote:
unfortunatly (having lived and worked in a
rehab for three years) i can honestly say -nothing- that you can throw
money at actually works so far (there is research into
treatments that "block" the effects of cocaine, making a dependant user
"immune" to it) ive found and this is echo'd by many who have been in
the rehab sector that till the person -genuinely- "wants" it, it wont
happen. increasing substance abuse treatment funding while always a
good thing, isnt really effective right now, all that really works (and
not always) is education from a young age, drugs are a "business", no
demand for what your selling = bankrupcy, i think some (not you it
seems) are too quick to jump on certain popular liberal idea's.
As I said, put the money that goes into the failed War on Drugs into education and rehabilitation. Whether it works or not, is immaterial IMO, because that's the better way to treat society than locking them up. It's should be a medical/psychological issue, not a criminal one.
Quote:
*s*
here's where it gets abit grey, all adults can give "consent", but not
all adults understand the consent they're giving, how do you honestly
judge which adult has "Right Will" (a Will truely of thier own,
untainted) and which adult just has "Will" (a Will that can be
subjective(due to mental/emotional disorder/disability), influenced or
coerced) part of why prositution is historically "illegal" is to
protect/give enforcement officers grounds/the ability to "protect" or
"rescue" someone, who will -say- "its my choice", when infact it isnt,
its the choice of the person who will kill them if they say or do
otherwise, personally i think this is another area that should be
"regulated" rather than Prohibited.
Take prostitution from out of the shadows and into the light. Take the pimps out of the equation. I want to live in a free society that doesn't second guess an adult's wishes for their own body. I don't believe that the laws exist to protect anyone (in this area); I think they stem from a place of morality.
RE: DoD spending. There are always going to be things that can hurt a nation. The key is to find a healthy median where you can provide for the common defense as well as make sure your people are educated. That has been neglected far too long IMO. Fear mongers will always win. Look, there's another boogey man around the corner! Screw that.
That kind of thinking is purely reactionary, not forward thinking. How about making an investment in people!
Quote:
*s*
a nice ideal that i partly agree with, but, the reason
admins/bosses/presidents get more wage than "lower-level" employees
(however crucial/more work intensive thier job might be) is, "trust" in
an ideal world we would be able to trust our leaders to be "unbuyable",
this isnt an ideal world though, so those in positions of
responsibility tend to get paid more, higher up you are more your paid
so your less likely to be "brought", wages sadly arent and cant be
determined soley by the work you do (hence why the boss of a fastfood
chain may get paid millions for sitting on his @ss all day and the poor
souls working themselves to death "on the ground" get nickels).
I don't care about the business world and how much of a discrepancy there is between worker and executive salaries. I care about education salaries. It's insulting how little teachers get paid. Fuck that. It's criminal. No wonder we're churning out a nation of bloody dolts. We won't have to worry about nations/terrorists attacking us. We're doing a mighty fine job of it ourselves.
Not a good enough reason to keep the status quo. Something has to
change. If you take the illicit money out of the equation, they'll
eventually die. If nothing changes, they'll only get bigger.
unfortunatly sometimes you -must- keep the status quo to avoid worsening the situation, so long as someone is buying drugs illicit funds will be part of the equation, it is an actual business and follows the same "laws"of economics legitimate businesses do, and you cant merely "wish" another businesses funds would dry up, if the "war" on drugs eases up, the financing put into "security" and "counter-intelligence" by the drug pushers will end up being diverted to production and distribution, meaning drugs get cheaper and wider spread, starting the war on drugs made "the bed" law enforcement must now lie in, the only options really are cut demand (education/immunisation) or try and increase the effectiveness of the "weapons" used in the drug war.
Quote:
As I said, put the money that goes into the failed War on Drugs into
education and rehabilitation. Whether it works or not, is immaterial
IMO, because that's the better way to treat society than locking them
up. It's should be a medical/psychological issue, not a criminal one.
so those in jail for providing drugs to teens, or assualting/killing/robbing elderly people to get funds to buy drugs, should be let out of prison and put into rehab? *s*
Quote:
Take prostitution from out of the shadows and into the light. Take the
pimps out of the equation. I want to live in a free society that
doesn't second guess an adult's wishes for their own body. I don't
believe that the laws exist to protect anyone (in this area); I think
they stem from a place of morality.
RE: DoD spending. There are always going to be things that can hurt
a nation. The key is to find a healthy median where you can provide
for the common defense as well as make sure your people are educated.
That has been neglected far too long IMO. Fear mongers will always
win. Look, there's another boogey man around the corner! Screw that.
That kind of thinking is purely reactionary, not forward thinking. How about making an investment in people!
RE: prostitution, one word "courtesans"(escorts that can legally provide sex if both wish), I completely agree that there should be a means to "channel" those who wish to work in such an occupation (second oldest in the world folks ;) ) into a more healthy and "accepted" situation, one that can be regulated, that can be made safer than "street-law" does currently.
RE: DoD spending, your right there will always be things to hurt someone somepeople and the "healthy median" you desire, is influenced by the countries economy -and- other nations/people, in short, till almost everyone in the world is "healthy" and the economy, you will never achieve a "median" and well, the reason i hold a slight "neutrality" to the issue of goverment spending is because of my own ignorance, i do not know in detail -everything- that's a factor here, what you think of (based on what you know now) as "unbalanced" or "wasteful"may, if the facts where ever shown, be proved either worse, or better than you thought. (and for those who might not be able to say it, cut DoD financing, you create job losses, is it really fair for someone to be out of a job because the uninformed public (that's what we are) believe DoD finances are misused?)
Quote:
I don't care about the business world and how much of a discrepancy
there is between worker and executive salaries. I care about education
salaries. It's insulting how little teachers get paid. Fuck that.
It's criminal. No wonder we're churning out a nation of bloody dolts.
We won't have to worry about nations/terrorists attacking us. We're
doing a mighty fine job of it ourselves.
yes it is insulting how little teachers get paid, and if you "dont care" for the business world, then there's little room for reason here, because, like it or not, if you pay someone a wage and get money from somewhere for providing a good/service you -are- running a "business" and till that's respected chances are mistakes will happen, i'll give you something that may help you in life *s*
"we cant teach our children what we dont know, and we dont teach our children all we do know"
there's a natural "entrophy" in education -because- people are people, the school system may be sliding back to colony-era (just with buildings of concrete) , but the world is producing idiots because of the above, we're not guarding the full breadth or ensuring that the full breadth of our knowledge is being passed on to those who are next decades teachers/leaders.
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
unfortunatly sometimes you -must- keep the status quo to avoid worsening the situation, so long as someone is buying drugs illicit funds will be part of the equation, it is an actual business and follows the same "laws"of economics legitimate businesses do, and you cant merely "wish" another businesses funds would dry up, if the "war" on drugs eases up, the financing put into "security" and "counter-intelligence" by the drug pushers will end up being diverted to production and distribution, meaning drugs get cheaper and wider spread, starting the war on drugs made "the bed" law enforcement must now lie in, the only options really are cut demand (education/immunisation) or try and increase the effectiveness of the "weapons" used in the drug war.
I completely disagree. This is the same argument people made against ending Prohibition. It's just more fear-mongering. Oh, we can't change anything because it'll just get worse. Nothing could be further than this truth: if we DON'T change things as they are things are going to get worse.
Quote:
so those in jail for providing drugs to teens, or assualting/killing/robbing elderly people to get funds to buy drugs, should be let out of prison and put into rehab? *s*
Hmm, I smell a straw man argument. I haven't checked my original post to see if I said it explicitly, but I'll say it now: people should be released from prison if they're there for drug offenses, not violent ones. And all my points have been about what happens to consenting adults, not minors. You win no points from me if you start employing fallacious reasoning.
Quote:
RE: DoD spending, your right there will always be things to hurt someone somepeople and the "healthy median" you desire, is influenced by the countries economy -and- other nations/people, in short, till almost everyone in the world is "healthy" and the economy, you will never achieve a "median" and well, the reason i hold a slight "neutrality" to the issue of goverment spending is because of my own ignorance, i do not know in detail -everything- that's a factor here, what you think of (based on what you know now) as "unbalanced" or "wasteful"may, if the facts where ever shown, be proved either worse, or better than you thought. (and for those who might not be able to say it, cut DoD financing, you create job losses, is it really fair for someone to be out of a job because the uninformed public (that's what we are) believe DoD finances are misused?)
So we should just trust our government, huh? No thanks. I want transparency. I want it bad. After eight years of Bush's secret government, I never again want to live under a regime such as that again.
I say bring our soldiers back from around the world. I don't want us being imperialistic. Stop throwing money away on shit like missile shields. Basing them in Poland? I guess the Bushies missed the Cold War too much.
And I'm all for having people lose their jobs if they're unneeded. If we implement the fair tax, and do away with the IRS, then a lot of people will be out of work. So be it. The status quo is the enemy as far as I'm concerned.
Quote:
yes it is insulting how little teachers get paid, and if you "dont care" for the business world, then there's little room for reason here, because, like it or not, if you pay someone a wage and get money from somewhere for providing a good/service you -are- running a "business" and till that's respected chances are mistakes will happen, i'll give you something that may help you in life *s*
That was too close to being patronizing for my taste. My comment about the business world and the world of teaching was centered around the idea of service to others. If you're a working person and you make 400x less than your CEO, then that's too bad. If you're a teacher and you make half or less than the assistant to the principal, that's criminal. Everything should be geared toward education as far as I'm concerned. And that means actual delivery of said education: teachers, safe campuses, textbooks, etc.
I completely disagree. This is the same argument people made against ending Prohibition. It's just more fear-mongering. Oh, we can't change anything because it'll just get worse. Nothing could be further than this truth: if we DON'T change things as they are things are going to get worse.
you right *s* if things arent changed things will get worse anyway, however one day merely "ending the war on drugs", -will- do as i suggest, because unlike prohibition, the drug industry is global and far more "educated", change is needed because the situation will worsen, but arbitrary immediate action is likely to do more harm than good.
Quote:
Hmm, I smell a straw man argument. I haven't checked my original post
to see if I said it explicitly, but I'll say it now: people should be
released from prison if they're there for drug offenses, not violent
ones. And all my points have been about what happens to consenting
adults, not minors. You win no points from me if you start employing
fallacious reasoning.
no you didnt explicitly state *s* and i was playing "clumbsy devils advocate" with you, those in only for possession etc, should yes be getting help not being stuck in a micro-community with others of simular or worse behaviours, my reasoning at points has acknowledged that not all "adults" are infact capable of "consent" just the appearance of it *g* and this isnt about points i hope, this is about learning from anothers veiw?
Quote:
So we should just trust our government, huh? No thanks. I want
transparency. I want it bad. After eight years of Bush's secret
government, I never again want to live under a regime such as that
again.
you dont need to "trust", but making judgements/idea's when you dont have all the information is just as much a fallacy, maybe the DoD is doing it right, maybe they're messing it up, how can you judge fairly without all the facts?
in a world with only people like oyu and me transparency would be -good- however because others use such transparency to harm others, its negligent of authorities to allow some information "public", the good old liberaty vs security arguement, liberty is little use to you if your dead, but too much security kills your life.
Quote:
I say bring our soldiers back from around the world. I don't want
us being imperialistic. Stop throwing money away on shit like missile
shields. Basing them in Poland? I guess the Bushies missed the Cold
War too much.
its a nice idea, but then we're the few not the many, the things you seem to want require global unity/care and humanity isnt there yet.
Quote:
And I'm all for having people lose their jobs if they're unneeded.
If we implement the fair tax, and do away with the IRS, then a lot of
people will be out of work. So be it. The status quo is the enemy as
far as I'm concerned.
your lack of compassion for others little different from yourself is -staggering- in this regard *s* will you be one of those to lose thier jobs and income should your "dream" come true? status quo can be an enemy, especially when blindly adhered too, but lack of it/disposal of it because it is status quo can do as much damage.
*s*
I like you
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
you right *s* if things arent changed things will get worse anyway, however one day merely "ending the war on drugs", -will- do as i suggest, because unlike prohibition, the drug industry is global and far more "educated", change is needed because the situation will worsen, but arbitrary immediate action is likely to do more harm than good.
Clearly this is not something you just willy nilly turn on or off like a switch. It has to be planned for, probably phased in. Ending it tomorrow would no doubt cause utter chaos. But I still maintain end it we must.
Quote:
you dont need to "trust", but making judgements/idea's when you dont have all the information is just as much a fallacy, maybe the DoD is doing it right, maybe they're messing it up, how can you judge fairly without all the facts?
Well, this is a little catch-22, no? How can I make judgments when I can't get all the facts? All I can go on is what my gut tells me. My guts says there's a lot of waste, BS projects to keep the military/industrial complex grinding forward. They lied to us for decades about how much of a threat the USSR was to "our way of life" by exaggerating how many nukes they had, the strength of their troops etc. Or if I want to be kind, they didn't lie, but our intelligence community is feckless.
Quote:
its a nice idea, but then we're the few not the many, the things you seem to want require global unity/care and humanity isnt there yet.
I never said anything of the sort. I said end our imperialism. Troops in South Korea? Fifty years later? In Germany? Sixty years later? Twenty after the fall of the USSR? And where are we not? Darfur. They have nothing to offer us, so hell, let them all die.
Quote:
your lack of compassion for others little different from yourself is -staggering- in this regard *s* will you be one of those to lose thier jobs and income should your "dream" come true? status quo can be an enemy, especially when blindly adhered too, but lack of it/disposal of it because it is status quo can do as much damage.
I don't have compassion for waste. You would keep the IRS and this impossible tax code to keep people employed? I wouldn't. I'd streamline the military and put all kinds of people out of work. They can be retrained. I would never not change things for the better because someone might lose their job. Again, I'm not saying make changes willy nilly. I'm talking about purposeful changes, well thought out changes, but changes nonetheless.
"Very Progressive"
I got a 293 out of 400.
"Bon anniversaire et donne moi le salle de bains. Which translates as 'happy birthday and hand me....the bathroom.'"
"Extremely progressive"
WHOA
I got a 273 and for an American I was deemed "very progressive." Were you shocked to see some of the questions that were being asked because they're considered "issues" when in your society (I'm assuming) they're givens?
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I wouldn't say shocked, I
none taken
put it this way: someone I know has type 2 diabetes. this person, of course, needs regularly treatment. however, under her plan, she has a $5000 deductible, which means she must shell out $5000 OUT OF POCKET before any benefits kick in... and did I mention this person is in her 60s, works a 9-5 minimum wage job, and doesn't have a HS degree? yes... the sort of people who would have $5000 just lying around... :T
I think that as Americans, we really need to redefine the American dream!
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
:)
wHa~???
Did you just say "education" and "free" in the same sentence? But... but... but... that's... WIIITCH! :D hahaha!
Honestly, I will be paying off my undergraduate degree for another 8 years. Woo hoo! :| That's partly the reason why I decided to come to Spain for grad school - it was a choice between a good education that cost $100,000+ or a good education that cost -EUR (I get paid to be here, yay for socialism!). can't beat that!
I wish I knew what it was like to have complete faith in your government in times of crises. Must be so nice! I should try out Scandinavia... :)
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Hehe
Well, the education itself is free, and you get a small allowance from the government each months, but you still have to live and eat and stuff, so most people do have student loans that they spend lots of years paying off. Only the education itself is free.
And there's a difference between trusting that I will be treated fairly, and having complete faith in the government. :P They mess up ALL THE TIME, on all kinds of things, serious and less so. And in times of crises they have proven themselves to be less then stellar at handling them. I hope and believe that they are fair, my faith in them, eh, so-so. ;)
ahhh~!
OK, that's better. :| Ugh. Now see, at least in the US I'm happy that gov't functions well 75% of the time. Too depressing! Let's just start our own country! How about that?
"Liberal United States of AE"
Gov't: Republic: Every resident of age gets a vote!
Major export: Consulting, organic foods, biofuels
Major imports:(hmmm...)
Do you know any rich persons who are proprietors of an island big enough to fit everybody who wants to join willing to give it away to us??? :D
BTW, it's open to everybody who'd like to join! :D
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Nice!
Heh! I like your plan! And let's make sure the island is somewhere where it's warm. I love Scandinavia, but not so much the cold.
We can also export practical footwear and organic clothing.
Major imports? How about any movies or TV-shows starring lovely ladies, and any literature featuring or pertaining to lovely ladies?
Everyone gets to build their own bamboo hut on the beach, which will then be equipped with high-speed DSL and inhabitant's choice of PC or Mac.
Way ahead of you
You know Kauai, one of the Hawaiian islands? I say we commandeer that one. ;) Warm enough for you?
That's a good idea for imports, btw. Oh, do you think we'd make our own tanktops or should we import those as well? Dunno about you, but I can't wear anything other than tanks...
I love the internet-decked bamboo huts...
Let's make it happen! Any issues that arise will be resolved by our popularly elected representatives for our little republic. :D
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Beaches and palm trees!
Ooooh. Hawaii sounds awesome, I've always wanted to visit!
I think tank tops will be smuggled, because officially we'll be making our own, but the organic tank tops hand-woven from reeds will just be so uncomfortable that there will be a large black market for smuggled tanktops out of non-organic cotton and synthetics. Also lace underwear for the femmes.
How about pets? Any rules?
I'm looking forwad to this, it's just getting better and better!
oh oh oh!
Haha, reed-y tanks! Yeah, maybe we should just not try and make our own and import them altogether. Lace underwear for those who want 'em sounds great! (I, for one, preferthe CK rib shorts, but since it's our great lil' island, there will also be imports on these for people w/ the same preferences as me) :D
Pets are allowed, but owners must always pick up after their pets! No brown rolls on the beach, pls. :D But pets are great! Should there be a restriction on the size of the pet, i.e., should we allow people to bring their pet cows?
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Heh
Yeah, I'm not much for lace either, I'm fond of the MyWear hipsters, which, however, apparently can't even be bothered with a website, much less a picture. But I certainly don't mind lace on someone who enjoys wearing it. :D
There could be a farming community that would have their own allocated area in which to keep larger animals. Only house pets allowed in the beach huts. Also, if there's a farming community we'd have more left of our budget to spend on important things like pretty ladies and feminist theory textbooks, if we can get locally produced food.
Hmm. What else would be integral to an AE society? Some sort of sporting whatever? I'm not into sports, but I hear there are lots of lesbians who are...
Football!
I have recently discovered my love of not only watching but also PLAYING football. In fact, I have a bulky and black knee injury right now from a recent match. (Mind you, I'm not a good dribbler, I'm just terrific at running back and forth to intimidate the other players.) We should also have beach volleyball courts. I love beach volleyball. Ooh ooh, and American footballs. I love a game of tackle (american) football on the sand. But,I have some friends who are ball-deficient, so we ought to have board games for them, too. And perhaps some yoga/pilates for people who aren't (or think they aren't) coordinated enough for sports.
A farming community sounds great! Kudos on that plan! Even though I'm a carnivore, I would like to throw out there that we should reconsider / not have cow meat consumption... I love Bessy, but it's so bad for the environment. We ought to do it right this time around, what do you think?
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
the only thing I do is a bit of cross-country running
I eat meat when I'm served meat somewhere, but rarely buy it for myself, so I'd have no problem having the cows for milk purposes only. Great source of calcium for those who aren't lactose intolerant! But we'd have to make sure the farming community cultivated a wide variety of plants from which to derive varied and healthy food. And also, being on an island, maybe we could allow fishing? It's not great for the ocean, but some species are thriving more than others, and it is so very healthy to eat fish.
We need to set the sports up so it's spectator-friendly, I think we can recruit lots of people that way.
Speaking of recruit, we need recruitment plans (and also citizen-ship-tests). "Have you ever used the word 'gay' in a deregatory way? Yes/No. Have you ever participated in taking away the human rights of minority groups? Yes/No. Provided you are granted citizenship and have answered 'Yes' to any of the above questions means you will have to attend 6 mandatory homophile reassessment seminars."
sell a lesbian a fish...
...and you feed her for a day; teach a lesbian to fish and you feed her for a lifetime. :D I'm all for Omega-3!!!!!!
Love your citizenship test. May I suggest we also include - assuming we're also letting men in the island, but I'm cool if you want to keep them in a "visitors-only" status - we should also include a "have you ever objectified women" sort of test, you know? And if the answer is yes, they must be subjected to an intensive 7-day, 10-hour education seminar on one of our many embassies throughout the world.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I'm from the same country
I'm from the same country as fallon ash, but I'm not so keen on our system (nor climate). I pay rediculously high taxes. After eight years you've paid off your degree. I didn't pay for mine, but will pay over fifty percent (nearly seventy depending on how you count) of my income for the rest of my life, unless I move oversees (which I plan to do, like most of my family).
Ugh
50% of your income going to taxes... I really don't know how to feel about that! Right now, I'm pissed that CA is still lagging on my income tax refund, stupid lazy... oh yeah, I'm Californian. :D
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Shocking!
Apparently I'mextremely progressive. Who knew?
I guess I should cancel my plans to join that survivalist commune in the Ozarks where I was going to wait for the imminent collapse of the global financial order by by learning how to cook with shoe leather while cornering the market on surplus Ka-Bars and Vietnam era C ration overstocks.
Figures, the world is finally going to hell in a handbasket and it turns out I'm a liberal bleedling heart loser clinging to the apron strings of the nanny state! Thanks for nothing QU33R! :p
If only if I had spent more quality time watching Glenn Beck...
Hmmm... wanna snuggle?
it'll be OK, I promise. :D
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
You know
I think I could really go for some snuggling right now!
Hey, how about later we go for some tofu and then check out the Arusha Centre screening of Trouble the Water?
Geez if I was any more progressive I’d probably be on a US government watchlist! ;)
I could so go for some tofu right about now!
Yay for progressives! We're healthier and have awesome hobbies. Woo hooo!
How would you like that snuggle, btw?
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Extremely Progressive
Tigerlily: How on earth are you not on the CIA's watch list? You might come over here and mislead our children to thinking violence is wrong or something! Or you might convince them to...I dunno... be one of those hippie loving tree huggers or something!
>.< That said I scored 307/400. Not bad, I say!
~Without risk, there can be no innovation. Without innovation, there can be no advancement. ~
progressive - how can that be a bad thing!
extremely progressive too
same here
me three!
same here :)
351/400
... also not american
“Not only can man’s being not be understood without madness, it would not be man’s being if it did not bear madness within itself as the limit of his freedom.”
Jacques Lacan
I guess I should move to a more progressive country
where we going?? :D
I'm in Spain right now and a bit reluctant to return to the US. :P I have to mention also that in my Spanish law classes, I spent 60% of the time w/ my chin dropped because of all of the socialist theories that are found in the LAW. one time I had my mouth dropped until my friends began laughing at me because I just couldn't believe what I was hearing. Sometimes I get uncomfortable hearing all of the "socialist stuff" that is discussed in class!
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
"Law's flaw is not
"Law's flaw is not that it is made for the people, its flaw is that it is made by the people."
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
Brilliant
Couldn't have summarized it better. :)
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
267
wow
335/400, well aren't I the little socialist. LOL.
But I am Canadian, so I guess that is somewhat understandable.
I am Extremely Progressive.
The vast socio-political differences by country is really interesting. They should have begun the quiz with a poll allowing each quiz maker to select their country of origin. Then they could have come out with a bunch of nifty graphs and charts.
It would be fascinating to see the differences represented visually. *is a nerd*
I agree!
I think all of you ecoterrorist socialist commies are skewing the results! Experts might start thinking America doesn't need any work because it's "o so liberal!" ;)
(BTW, I'm the ecoterrorist socialist commie... sorry to project that onto you there)
:D
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
XD
287/400
apparently "very progressive" *brow quirk*
also, not american.
thanks for the timekiller QU33R *s*
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
anything for you!
:D
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Very Progressive
295/400. I think continuum-based responses can be a little misleading due to their subjectivity when comparing to other people. How much difference is there between someone who answers 7 or 8 (or 2/3) to a question?
Plus, some of the questions' wording was a little too skewed for my taste.
I'm socially libertarian, but fiscally conservative. I'm for ending the war on drugs, all vice crimes being decriminallized, anti-religion, pro-choice, anti-war/imperialism, want the insane cost of healthcare regulated, slashing the budget of the Dept. of War (they call it Defense) and putting it into Dept. of Education, implementing the fair tax, etc.
hmm
Yeah the questions we're abit skewed, tohugh i do have a couple for you *deep breath thinking "here we go again"*
ending the war on drugs: you want it ended even though its become cyclically-escalating? (the criminal "corporations" having either "died" or "built up" to weather the "war" requiring greater effort by law enforcement, rinse repeat).
all vice crimes decriminalized: would that be including child prostitution?
anti-religion: doesnt that ironically (if i understood your term) make you "Faithist", as many in religions can sometimes be "sexist/sexualist"?
dept of defense: you want the budget slashed, but do you -actually- fully know what the dept of "war" spends on? (figure this one out, they get billions, but cant properly equip thier soldiers with items that cost a few cents, where's the money really going?)
education should also get a boost though *s*
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
End the War on Drugs
ending the war on drugs: you want it ended even though its become cyclically-escalating? (the criminal "corporations" having either "died" or "built up" to weather the "war" requiring greater effort by law enforcement, rinse repeat).
I want drugs to be decriminalized. Prohibition didn't work. Put the money into substance abuse treatment. Get a half million people out of prison instantly. The War on Drugs is a failure, has sent our prison system into crisis, and fosters narcoterrorism. Take the money out of it. Regulate it and tax it. There are plenty of existing laws on the books to cover being drunk/drugged in public, DUI, etc.
No, because they can't give consent. But anything that an adult wants to do with their own body is just fine with me.
To the point that one religion can enforce its will on others who do not believe the same way, then absolutely.
Of course not. No one does since so much of it is classified. The point is just this: they get hundreds of billions and waste it. And when I say give it to the DoE, what I really mean is get it to the schools. While we're at it, make sure all schools get the money, not just the affluent districts that get lots of property taxes.
And while I'm at it, flip the salaries for the administrators and teachers. It's the teachers who should be getting $75k/year not the other way around. How about some damn priorities here.;)
I like the way you think!!
-----
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I am not the only one...Take my hand and join us and the world will live as one..."
You should get into
You should get into politics and make this happen!
*s*
thought this was what you actually meant dear.
Prohibition doesnt (and never actually will work, you make a thing forbidden it becomes more attractive, you make a product "illegal" some oppurtunist -will- find a way to provide it at a far greater cost and without tax being paid), "Permission" also creates its own problems, the middle ground "Regulated" is usually the best option, unfortunatly with the drug business, the "war" made some "companies" so strong (in order to survive), that lessening the (insufficent) "pressure" on them will only permit radical expansion, unfortunatly (having lived and worked in a rehab for three years) i can honestly say -nothing- that you can throw money at actually works so far (there is research into treatments that "block" the effects of cocaine, making a dependant user "immune" to it) ive found and this is echo'd by many who have been in the rehab sector that till the person -genuinely- "wants" it, it wont happen. increasing substance abuse treatment funding while always a good thing, isnt really effective right now, all that really works (and not always) is education from a young age, drugs are a "business", no demand for what your selling = bankrupcy, i think some (not you it seems) are too quick to jump on certain popular liberal idea's.
*s* here's where it gets abit grey, all adults can give "consent", but not all adults understand the consent they're giving, how do you honestly judge which adult has "Right Will" (a Will truely of thier own, untainted) and which adult just has "Will" (a Will that can be subjective(due to mental/emotional disorder/disability), influenced or coerced) part of why prositution is historically "illegal" is to protect/give enforcement officers grounds/the ability to "protect" or "rescue" someone, who will -say- "its my choice", when infact it isnt, its the choice of the person who will kill them if they say or do otherwise, personally i think this is another area that should be "regulated" rather than Prohibited.
(and "Right Will" is a concept that came about because of the Human Rights conventions flaws)
this is kind of simply solved, but needs abit of green, there are Laws relating to equal/human rights, part of what keeps humans "in check" is "fear", freedom of expression is nice, but a very unrefined concept, oneday soon we will see a "white" person take a person of another "minority" to court for racially motivated harm, equality is a double-edged sword, those who demand it -must- also give it, because to only demand it does nothing but tip the scale of equality from one-"side" to the other, for it to work, All must demand and ALL must give it, and so far the demanding of it hasnt equaled out, its been lopsided, the grandchildren of the "oppressors" are too afraid to demand thier own right for equality incase its veiwed as just another example of "oppression"/****ism/***ly motivated, one day however a mainstream "church" will be taken to court and sued for damages inflicted (weirder cases have won), one day people who are normally demanded of by organised religions will demandthe religions give equality too.
The moment it was discoverd the nazi's we're developing a nuclear weapon, very suddenly the supply shortages sufferd by allied troops got -much- worse, why? simply R&D, treatments for Sarin/etc didnt just pop-up out of the goodness of some scientists heart, they came to be because intelligence on a new weapon was discoverd and R&D into its countermeasures began, this is -very- expensive, and sick people, for fun/for free develop new and weird weapons of all kinds all the time, where as those charged to defend "the people" have to pay to have countermeasures to these weapons, that "DR frankienstien" could have had years of free-time to mess with, made -fast-, that's where alot of DoD money goes, R&D of countermeasures/weapons, the only countermeasure to the atomic bomb was to be the one's to develop it "first", the reason such budgets are classified, is statistics, while it would be nice for joe public (us) to see if our money is being spent well, just like, with enough "results" from a lotto machine and set of lotto balls one can with about 70%-95% predict the numbers to come up next week, with a few years DoD budget one could predict next years budget and plan an attack on that (high R&D means low forces funding, so a few rumours of a new weapon to ensure the enemies R&D funding is high while bumping up funding for own forces, own forces more likely to win).
sometimes funding is used neglectfully, sometimes it isnt.
*s* a nice ideal that i partly agree with, but, the reason admins/bosses/presidents get more wage than "lower-level" employees (however crucial/more work intensive thier job might be) is, "trust" in an ideal world we would be able to trust our leaders to be "unbuyable", this isnt an ideal world though, so those in positions of responsibility tend to get paid more, higher up you are more your paid so your less likely to be "brought", wages sadly arent and cant be determined soley by the work you do (hence why the boss of a fastfood chain may get paid millions for sitting on his @ss all day and the poor souls working themselves to death "on the ground" get nickels).
*s* as ever, a pleasure talking to one of your intelliegence and convictions.
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
The Status Quo
Not a good enough reason to keep the status quo. Something has to change. If you take the illicit money out of the equation, they'll eventually die. If nothing changes, they'll only get bigger.
As I said, put the money that goes into the failed War on Drugs into education and rehabilitation. Whether it works or not, is immaterial IMO, because that's the better way to treat society than locking them up. It's should be a medical/psychological issue, not a criminal one.
Take prostitution from out of the shadows and into the light. Take the pimps out of the equation. I want to live in a free society that doesn't second guess an adult's wishes for their own body. I don't believe that the laws exist to protect anyone (in this area); I think they stem from a place of morality.
RE: DoD spending. There are always going to be things that can hurt a nation. The key is to find a healthy median where you can provide for the common defense as well as make sure your people are educated. That has been neglected far too long IMO. Fear mongers will always win. Look, there's another boogey man around the corner! Screw that.
That kind of thinking is purely reactionary, not forward thinking. How about making an investment in people!
I don't care about the business world and how much of a discrepancy there is between worker and executive salaries. I care about education salaries. It's insulting how little teachers get paid. Fuck that. It's criminal. No wonder we're churning out a nation of bloody dolts. We won't have to worry about nations/terrorists attacking us. We're doing a mighty fine job of it ourselves.
*s*
unfortunatly sometimes you -must- keep the status quo to avoid worsening the situation, so long as someone is buying drugs illicit funds will be part of the equation, it is an actual business and follows the same "laws"of economics legitimate businesses do, and you cant merely "wish" another businesses funds would dry up, if the "war" on drugs eases up, the financing put into "security" and "counter-intelligence" by the drug pushers will end up being diverted to production and distribution, meaning drugs get cheaper and wider spread, starting the war on drugs made "the bed" law enforcement must now lie in, the only options really are cut demand (education/immunisation) or try and increase the effectiveness of the "weapons" used in the drug war.
so those in jail for providing drugs to teens, or assualting/killing/robbing elderly people to get funds to buy drugs, should be let out of prison and put into rehab? *s*
RE: DoD spending. There are always going to be things that can hurt a nation. The key is to find a healthy median where you can provide for the common defense as well as make sure your people are educated. That has been neglected far too long IMO. Fear mongers will always win. Look, there's another boogey man around the corner! Screw that.
That kind of thinking is purely reactionary, not forward thinking. How about making an investment in people!
RE: prostitution, one word "courtesans"(escorts that can legally provide sex if both wish), I completely agree that there should be a means to "channel" those who wish to work in such an occupation (second oldest in the world folks ;) ) into a more healthy and "accepted" situation, one that can be regulated, that can be made safer than "street-law" does currently.
RE: DoD spending, your right there will always be things to hurt someone somepeople and the "healthy median" you desire, is influenced by the countries economy -and- other nations/people, in short, till almost everyone in the world is "healthy" and the economy, you will never achieve a "median" and well, the reason i hold a slight "neutrality" to the issue of goverment spending is because of my own ignorance, i do not know in detail -everything- that's a factor here, what you think of (based on what you know now) as "unbalanced" or "wasteful"may, if the facts where ever shown, be proved either worse, or better than you thought. (and for those who might not be able to say it, cut DoD financing, you create job losses, is it really fair for someone to be out of a job because the uninformed public (that's what we are) believe DoD finances are misused?)
yes it is insulting how little teachers get paid, and if you "dont care" for the business world, then there's little room for reason here, because, like it or not, if you pay someone a wage and get money from somewhere for providing a good/service you -are- running a "business" and till that's respected chances are mistakes will happen, i'll give you something that may help you in life *s*
"we cant teach our children what we dont know, and we dont teach our children all we do know"
there's a natural "entrophy" in education -because- people are people, the school system may be sliding back to colony-era (just with buildings of concrete) , but the world is producing idiots because of the above, we're not guarding the full breadth or ensuring that the full breadth of our knowledge is being passed on to those who are next decades teachers/leaders.
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
I don't think I could disagree with you any more
unfortunatly sometimes you -must- keep the status quo to avoid worsening the situation, so long as someone is buying drugs illicit funds will be part of the equation, it is an actual business and follows the same "laws"of economics legitimate businesses do, and you cant merely "wish" another businesses funds would dry up, if the "war" on drugs eases up, the financing put into "security" and "counter-intelligence" by the drug pushers will end up being diverted to production and distribution, meaning drugs get cheaper and wider spread, starting the war on drugs made "the bed" law enforcement must now lie in, the only options really are cut demand (education/immunisation) or try and increase the effectiveness of the "weapons" used in the drug war.
I completely disagree. This is the same argument people made against ending Prohibition. It's just more fear-mongering. Oh, we can't change anything because it'll just get worse. Nothing could be further than this truth: if we DON'T change things as they are things are going to get worse.
Hmm, I smell a straw man argument. I haven't checked my original post to see if I said it explicitly, but I'll say it now: people should be released from prison if they're there for drug offenses, not violent ones. And all my points have been about what happens to consenting adults, not minors. You win no points from me if you start employing fallacious reasoning.
So we should just trust our government, huh? No thanks. I want transparency. I want it bad. After eight years of Bush's secret government, I never again want to live under a regime such as that again.
I say bring our soldiers back from around the world. I don't want us being imperialistic. Stop throwing money away on shit like missile shields. Basing them in Poland? I guess the Bushies missed the Cold War too much.
And I'm all for having people lose their jobs if they're unneeded. If we implement the fair tax, and do away with the IRS, then a lot of people will be out of work. So be it. The status quo is the enemy as far as I'm concerned.
That was too close to being patronizing for my taste. My comment about the business world and the world of teaching was centered around the idea of service to others. If you're a working person and you make 400x less than your CEO, then that's too bad. If you're a teacher and you make half or less than the assistant to the principal, that's criminal. Everything should be geared toward education as far as I'm concerned. And that means actual delivery of said education: teachers, safe campuses, textbooks, etc.
*s*
you right *s* if things arent changed things will get worse anyway, however one day merely "ending the war on drugs", -will- do as i suggest, because unlike prohibition, the drug industry is global and far more "educated", change is needed because the situation will worsen, but arbitrary immediate action is likely to do more harm than good.
no you didnt explicitly state *s* and i was playing "clumbsy devils advocate" with you, those in only for possession etc, should yes be getting help not being stuck in a micro-community with others of simular or worse behaviours, my reasoning at points has acknowledged that not all "adults" are infact capable of "consent" just the appearance of it *g* and this isnt about points i hope, this is about learning from anothers veiw?
you dont need to "trust", but making judgements/idea's when you dont have all the information is just as much a fallacy, maybe the DoD is doing it right, maybe they're messing it up, how can you judge fairly without all the facts?
in a world with only people like oyu and me transparency would be -good- however because others use such transparency to harm others, its negligent of authorities to allow some information "public", the good old liberaty vs security arguement, liberty is little use to you if your dead, but too much security kills your life.
its a nice idea, but then we're the few not the many, the things you seem to want require global unity/care and humanity isnt there yet.
your lack of compassion for others little different from yourself is -staggering- in this regard *s* will you be one of those to lose thier jobs and income should your "dream" come true? status quo can be an enemy, especially when blindly adhered too, but lack of it/disposal of it because it is status quo can do as much damage.
*s*
I like you
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22
Come on now
Clearly this is not something you just willy nilly turn on or off like a switch. It has to be planned for, probably phased in. Ending it tomorrow would no doubt cause utter chaos. But I still maintain end it we must.
Well, this is a little catch-22, no? How can I make judgments when I can't get all the facts? All I can go on is what my gut tells me. My guts says there's a lot of waste, BS projects to keep the military/industrial complex grinding forward. They lied to us for decades about how much of a threat the USSR was to "our way of life" by exaggerating how many nukes they had, the strength of their troops etc. Or if I want to be kind, they didn't lie, but our intelligence community is feckless.
I never said anything of the sort. I said end our imperialism. Troops in South Korea? Fifty years later? In Germany? Sixty years later? Twenty after the fall of the USSR? And where are we not? Darfur. They have nothing to offer us, so hell, let them all die.
I don't have compassion for waste. You would keep the IRS and this impossible tax code to keep people employed? I wouldn't. I'd streamline the military and put all kinds of people out of work. They can be retrained. I would never not change things for the better because someone might lose their job. Again, I'm not saying make changes willy nilly. I'm talking about purposeful changes, well thought out changes, but changes nonetheless.
*s*
*grin* So long as you kept the last bit in mind, I'd vote for ya... we're i american
thanks for the chat *s*
"...They're not going to send a crazy man out to be killed, are they?"
"Who else will go?" ~ Catch-22