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1 out of 9 girls will NOT get pregnant by the time they exit high school

i was on the phone last night talking to my friend. and we were talking about unprotected sex, blah, blah, blah...well, she says "check this out". she tells me nine names of the girls she used to hang out with in high school(she and I went to different high schools). this is what she said happen to all the nine girls and this is why i came up with the conclusion that i did. ( i wont say any names)

Girl 1-pregnant

Girl 2-on her second baby

Girl 3-two abortions, one misscarriage

Girl 4-Chlamydia

Girl 5-just got finish having her third baby

Girl 6-pregnant

Girl 7-misscarriage, baby

Girl 8-pregnant

Girl 9(my friend)-clean and havent had a kid yet

i came up with the conclusion that one out of nine girls will not get pregnant by the time they graduate. 

and something that makes me angry is how people are just now realizing that this is going on because of Juno, Jamie Lynn Spears, My Secret Life of an American Teenager; maybe its just me but nobody cared with the black girls in the hood were having kids at 13. nobody cared about the latino girls in my third grade class getting pregnant over and over again. no one cared about the 12 year old girls at my run down middle getting pregnant, taking a break, and getting pregnant again. its like when it happens to minorities(also including poor white people as well) no one cares but once a caucasin girl gets knocked up and whos rich, pretty, and has her own show, every body wants to have a fuss. 

my secret life of an american teenage girl is a joke. her moms going to take care of the baby, she doesnt have to drop out of school, she lives in a upper class rich home, her man is basically providing for her as well...what is she bitching about?

oh and less not forget about the 13 year old boy from britan who got the girl pregnant. yet it somehow only made it to local news when five boys got caught giving each other oral during recess when i was in 6th grade.

yep, proud to be an american.

 

 


Briitt_says's picture

Lol idk bout all that but 2

Lol idk bout all that but 2 of my bess friends have kids one of them is 18 now n the other is 16 n ma otha friend juss had a abortion But the rest of my close friends well there lesbians sooo ya u get the pic lol i never seen that show but from the sound of it it sounds mad dumb n juno well i thought that was a cute movie but it didnt make me want a kid at all
Beau Idea! 's picture

I Agree With You

 It's really sad to admit but you're totally telling the truth. Thats exactly how it is in real life. I know so many girls who has had kids, abortions and a few of them even std's and they don't see it as a problem but they think its cute to prance around with a kid on their arms with no father. Don't get me wrong I'm not putting anyone down who has a kid or nknows someone with a kid because every situation is different. But its just shameful that things like this has to happen to happen so many times before being notified.

 

 

~Life is too short tp be mad...so just be happy~

tuzaizi's picture

It depends on

the types of friends you have.
Anonymous's picture

Hah.

Yeah, like the gay ones. 

Inkblots

Vroom's picture

Wow..

In my high school teen pregnancy wasn't that frequent..but it was large enough to start a "Teen Mothers" club. 

It's becoming an epidemic..

Soon lesbian teens will start to have babies too....then you'll KNOW something is undeniably wrong with society..(if you haven't come to that realization yet =S)

With the economy the way it is in America..they'll be too many babies and not enough money to afford them. Who knows what will happen then..can barely find a decent apartment in NY..jeez..

 

*Shivers*

mindgrapes's picture

it's a mess..

my sister, who is a senior in high school, said that there were 18 girls at her school who were pregnant. there are only about 400 students in that high school, too. it's madness, i tell you.
kitty's picture

this is what happens

this is what happens without proper sexual education. our media is getting increasingly sexualized at the same time our society is becoming increasingly moralistic. teenagers are being exposed to all of the positives of sexuality without much regards to the risks. the only time you ever hear someone talking about the risks of teenage sexuality is when they're representing some moralistic conservative religious group that wants pretend as though sex is a sin.

we need common sense sex education that acknowledges that teenagers are going to have sex and that its not "dirty" but they still have a responsibility to themselves, their families, and society at large to be safe and smart about it.

LiveFree's picture

There IS an element of

There IS an element of morality and repsonsibility to having sex; this is not about saying that sex is "bad" or "dirty;" it is saying that there are serious consequences to having sex. personally, i doubt that too many girls that get pregnant had no idea how pregnancies are caused or how they can be prevented.

i absolutely favor sex ed (in terms of teaching kids about the nuts and bolts of it, so to speak), but it seems that a whole lot of the "sex-positive" and "progressive" crowd have completely abandoned all sense of morality. many so-called progressives also have a very low opinion of women, and this translates into girls having no self-respect, and feeling like they have to give in when the guy wants sex, or they won't be "cool" or liked.

Jill of All Trades's picture

Ultimately it's about self esteem

A lot has changed since I graduated high school (about 18 years ago -- damn I'm old). Twenty years ago, you never heard of teenage girls intentionally getting pregnant. Teenage pregnancy was still a problem back then, but not one girls actively sought to inflict upon themselves.

I cannot understand the mindset of a 13, 14, 15 year old girl who intentionally tries to get pregnant -- who willingly sleeps with just about anyone uprotected to do so. Such a conciousness was not even on the radar when I was in high school.  If a girl got pregnant, it was automatically a regrettable mistake. She did not intend for it to happen.

There is a whole crop of girls growing up without love and without hope. They see babies as the only way to bring fulfillment and worth to their lives. It's sad, and frightening. Compounding the problem is that we have grown into a society devoid of responsibility. Whether it's wall street or skid row, people are growing less accountable for their bad behavior. We've actually become a society that rewards bad behavior -- which is why we are in an economic meltdown now. A wall street banker who makes bad loans gets rewarded in the short term with a big bonus; a teenage girl who gets pregnant gets a free ride from "the system"; a young man who "scores" is a stud and if he gets a girl pregnant he is rarely forced to take responsibility for the child.  

Honestly, I don't know how we heal this problem. How do you instill accountability in someone who just doesn't care. How do you teach responsibility in a society that no longer values it? Fucked if I know.

LiveFree's picture

couldn't have said it

couldn't have said it better. i am a little older than you and i also remember that teen pregnancy was almost universally considered a bad thing when i was in high school. it is totally a matter of culture and community values; kids do what they see other kids doing (as long as the other kids are "getting away with it"). it also seems that even though opportunities for women have increased greatly compared to 25 years ago, young girls have lower self-esteem now than they did back then.

i agree that it is hard to know how to fix this problem, because it is like a contagious disease; it spreads from one kid to the next. where it originates is hard to say; the media is certainly a part of it, as are parents who refuse to emphasize the importance of right and wrong to their kids, and probably in their own lives.

Anonymous's picture

Teen Pregnancy

Rick Machado

Hello Everyone,

I have read all your comments, voiced first by nsnsproductions, about your confusion, sadness, and bewilderment on this very large social problem, Teen Pregnancy.

You are right to be concerned- It's a real problem. And your feelings about this come across as well, and rightly so.

I stumbled across this article because I have a Google alert- it tells me whenever anything that has to do with Jamie L. Spears comes out- they alert me. As a Public Speaker about  Teen Pregnancy, I need to know her life for my talks. As well as Bristol Palin, and others.  

 Most is crap. I delete it. But your response on AfterEllen was real.

I saved it and will respond to it. Not now, it's late, I just came in from work. I run a farm, as well as do Public Speaking on this subject. But I will write tomorrow.

For now, let me say, none of you are seeing it correctly. No offense. I am not writing to criticize. Just to say, No. You are all pretty much wrong.

The Teen Birth Rate ( TBR, it's not studied as the Teen Pregnancy Rate ) has nothing to do with television, media, promiscuity, laziness, contraception, sex ed, mindsets, teen accountability, teen responsibility, teen shame, lesbian pregnant teens, teen bad behavior, and mostly, it has nothing to do with sex.  I hope I covered everything you wrote.

It has nothing to do with bad decisions, bad choices, abandoning your future, being stupid, ignorant- nothing to do with these concepts.  

Jill of All Trades was better with her questions.

She asked how you instill accountability? Great question. That is the real question. But not Teen Accountability. They're fine.

I will discuss it

 Your anger is misdirected. It has nothing to do with Teens, and everything to do with Adults.

If I am out of place in this website , tell me. I won't bore you, nor waste you're time. if you think you're right, and I'm just a  drag and you're not interested, then I will say thanks and save us both time.

Thank You 

Rick Machado

Machado Farms 

 

 

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

nsnsproductions's picture

Hey

[Moderated: Personal attacks on AfterEllen are not allowed.  Future posts of this nature may result in your account being banned.  Please visit the forum rules folder if you have questions.]
dj shiva's picture

i am curious...

#1: How can you come here and just assign a blanket comment of "you're all pretty much wrong".  Some basic lessons in communication and conflict resolution would tell you that this is probably not a good approach if you want to make a point.

#2: You say: "The Teen Birth Rate ( TBR, it's not studied as the Teen Pregnancy Rate ) has nothing to do with television, media, promiscuity, laziness, contraception, sex ed, mindsets, teen accountability, teen responsibility, teen shame, lesbian pregnant teens, teen bad behavior, and mostly, it has nothing to do with sex.  I hope I covered everything you wrote."

Well now that you have told us how much we are wrong, how about givins us YOUR ideas?  I notice you dismiss what people here have to say, but offer nothing in the way of counterpoint.  

If you are REALLY a public speaker on teen pregnancy, let's hear what you tell people.  Because right now I am kinda skeeved out at your approach, and kinda freaked out that you actually speak to teens about this.

Yu's picture

Adults were once young teenage mothers too.

And who says

rickmachado wrote:
television, media, promiscuity, laziness, contraception, sex ed, mindsets, teen accountability, teen responsibility, teen shame, lesbian pregnant teens, teen bad behavior

has nothing to do with the adults themselves?

 

Adults were children too, and they, even in adulthood, can be swayed by the factors listed above.

 

Society has brainwashed adults into trying to be friends to their children, not parents (like TV tells parents to tell children over and over that children have rights, but rarely do they say to tell them that they also have responsabilities). Amongst other things and types of brainwashing.

Yu's picture

Postscript

Anyone who starts their piece by saying

rickmachado wrote:
For now, let me say, none of you are seeing it correctly. No offense. I am not writing to criticize. Just to say, No. You are all pretty much wrong.

is more than likely not to be worth listening to.

Anonymous's picture

 Dear friends, Sorry I

 Dear friends,

Sorry I couldn't finish my comments last night. And please don't be skeeved, upset angry, banned or freaked out. Instead, let me speak.

You all have a right to be upset at me. I pretty much dismissed you all without backing anything up. It's ok.

I can't say it all in one sitting though. I will break it up into 3 columns, that way I won't suck up everyone's time and space. And I have a blog where I go into much more detail about this problem. I will be more general here.

First, lets go back to nsnsproductions, who said that 1 out of 9 girls will graduate high school not pregnant, which means 8 out of 9 will be pregnant. 

1 out of 9 is 11% and 8 out of 9 is 89%. To say that 89% of all teen girls, even in one high school will get pregnant in the US is simply not true, even in the country with the highest TBR in the industrialized world.

The TBR today for the US is about 40/1000, which means 40 teen girls, age 15-19 will give birth per every 1000 births of women at all ages. That's about 4%.

The state with the highest TBR is Mississippi, at about 69/1000, the lowest Vermont, at about 20/1000.

The highest in the world is Sub-Saharan Africa, at about 230/1000 ,a shocking number. But that's still only 23%.

So ns' math skills are off. They also say that only when Juno Jamie, and Bristol came around did anyone take notice. That's also incorrect.

Teen pregnancy , as a social problem, was first mentioned in 1973. It was used as a way of creating a new "villian" for the masses to attack. Much like the "illegal immigrant", the "welfare mom", the "rock and toll singer", the "black gangster", the "terrorist", it was a way to divert anger and frustration over inequality present in society, away from the governments that create these problems, and have them instead directed at others.

During the time of 1973, through Reagan, Carter, and Bush 1, the teen mom was shamed, shunned, victimized, and seen as a frustrating but inevitable social problem. But it wasn't until Clinton that the full force of abuse was created and the myth of the "teen mom" was created.

Understand, Clinton is and was a vile piece of garbage, a real slimeball, an insult to women and men, shameless, vacuous, emotionally stunted, selfish, real crap. Using words like morals, responsibility, ethics, he crucified the teen mom, using her a centerpiece for his promotion of himself as one of "Family Values".

And then, they performed their greatest trick. They convinced a gullible, naive, downtrodden, greedy public that the answer to the "teen pregnancy problem" was in one word- abstinence.

That continues to this day, with Bush2, when he wasn't destroying the world, withholding funding for anyone one who wasn't already rich, and who replaced Clinton's heel on the back of the neck of the teen girl with his own, further grinding her into the dirt.

Now, let's bring this up to date with your own comments-

Kids prance around with kids are their arms, don't see it as a problem, and think it's cute- No. They don't.

It's an epidemic- Yes it is, but not because of the teen behavior.

It's madness- No, it is very much NOT madness. It's actually very rational.

The media is sexualized- No. People become sexualized, not the media. And the media reflects society, it doesn't create it.

Teens 20 years ago didn't do it. Yes they did, in greater numbers, and for the exact same reasons.

Understanding the mindset of girls? Accountability? A regrettable mistake? I am sorry, ms Jill of all trades. Sadly, it is not a regrettable mistake.

dj shiva and others who are angry, I understand. I haven't backed myself up. But you needn't get freaked out.

When I speak in a class, you can hear a pin drop. The tension permeates the room, the sadness is sometimes unbearable, and I have seen almost everyone break down in tears, from teachers, boys, girls, staff, parents, and , sometimes myself.

When the class is over, everyone seems stunned, and I usually linger afterwards. Girls come up to me angry quite often, and say they don't believe me. I have a certain part of my talk about the typical male that impregnantes a teen girl, and you can see the boys hold their breath. Often times, they start crying. Some just stare. But no boy has ever denied what I have said.  Nobody wants to believe it. But it's true. 

Once at a large University I spoke to a group of Master's students who were about to be teachers, a guy about 25 came up to me afterwards. He said he almost fainted, that he felt like I had followed him throughout his life, and then recreated him in this talk. He said it was like a dream, that everything I said about this Typical Male was him all over again. He was shaken, and a bit shameful.

Let me stop here. Tomorrow I will explain the ten dynamics behind the TBR. I will answer any questions. Rick Machado is my real name.

Please don't say something that will get you banned. That won't do any good. The only reason I do public speaking on this topic is because I want women to run the world. That's all. An educated woman who delays childhood has a voice. A teen with a child is silenced, especially in this country.

We'll yak. Rick m

 

 

 

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Briitt_says's picture

...

Thats was mad long n all but the only thing i want to say to this is you said

"Kids prance around with kids are their arms, don't see it as a problem, and think it's cute- No. They don't. "

Um i disagree with this bcuz ALOT of girls in new england WANT kids bcuz of how there kid will be lookd at and bcuz they will be a center of attention..and they dont see haven kids at such a young age is a problem....they think its fine...Butt thats juss how the girls i no around here are

nsnsproductions's picture

you're being one sided

because there are girls who want kids because of they're cute and what not. tyra banks done a show on it and there were 13 girls saying they want kids so they can be popular and look cute. 

thats also what the girls said i my school. i feel offended that you're even trying to debate this. for one you're a man, so you'll never know the real reason, number 2, you don't know every girls situation in the world, number 3 the students who are breaking down in your class must not have a good back bone because i wish you would step up in the neighborhood elementary school i went to and we wouldnt even let you speak. 

and you still havent backed yourself with any information. you think you know and you can speak all you want but the truth is, you dont know...

also...try talking to a bunch of boys and girls who just dont give a damn.

Yu's picture

Au contraire mon ami

Hello again, friend.

rickmachado wrote:
The media is sexualized- No. People become sexualized, not the media. And the media reflects society, it doesn't create it.

I can't help but disagree with that. If media really reflected society, well, you wouldn't have anything to argue to us about. Everybody would have the means available to truly understand what IS in fact happening in the world.

By nature, we are a sexual species. Everything we do is for the reproduction and survival of our species. I mean, our most basic intincts tell us to copulate with as many ‘good’ candidates as we can, and make as much babies we can belt out into the world. And for that, we need to be atractive; be it because of how we look, what we wear, what we use, or what and how we think (just like the animals in the wild have outrageously coloured feathers, bald heads, crazy mating dances or whatever).

Our rationale may say otherwise or not.

Media knows that only people who crave are the people who buy. So Media creates cravings (atraction).

What is the easiest kind of atraction other than sexual atraction? Other types of atraction require too much effort. They require thinking and planning and analyzing and, most important, time. They require lots and lots of time. Sexual atraction requieres no thinking, no planning, no time. Its instinctual and immediate. Wham, bam, thank you ma’am. No emotional attachments (‘cause they require time and knowledge and experience). Media knows this.

Most of us have a little hedonist inside. We’ll sometimes buy the 3-in-1 even if we already have it in its separate components. Media also knows this.

So it comes as no surprise that Media knows how to make us desire thing we don’t really need. We surround ourselves by things that we “don’t really need” that are backed up by what we instinctually desire; what Media uses to cater to our little hedonist by the easiest and fastest route: Sex.

If sex is everywhere around us; everything is hypersexualized, then its mostly Media to blame.

True, Media is made by man. But man-made and society-made are different things.

The people who control the media do not exactly belong to what forms the bulk of society. They know what they are doing to society, they just don’t care. As long as society keeps filling their pockets, they will never care.

MuchMoreRetro's picture

Considering the current

Considering the current finanical climate many young women might find it more beneficial to have kids and live off benefits than to find a badly paying job and bring less money in.  Obviousy this isn't the case for everyone and it's dependant on their financial and home situation.  Not everyone can work, or can find work.

However my friend is in her early twenties.  She has two kids but works a job that pays terribly (my job in fact) because she'd rather be working and earning a living than living off money given to her by the government.  It's a crazy situation when single parents who work tough hours at a bad rate bring in less than single parents who live off benefits.

Michie87's picture

seee

Thats one advantage to being lesbian ...no risk of pregnancy lmao. Lesbian sex its safe in its own. :D 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

Let it Rock,Let it roll

Briitt_says's picture

HaaHa

Lmao!! Way to change to view of this post!
MeltingCharcoals's picture

lol!

my straight friends know this line too well...i never fail to say it whenever they're worrying about getting pregnant :D

Anonymous's picture

teen pregnancy

Hello friends,

Thanks to all who read my piece, whether you agreed or not, and thanks for responding. It's a difficult subject to talk about, and for some of  you, I can sense your anger and bitterness at what's happening. Before you crucify me, whether because I am a man, or I am out of touch, too ignorant of communicational skills, or my views on the media, just hear me out.

There are ten dynamics behind a very high Teen Birth rate. I don't call it the "teen pregnancy problem" because there is no such thing. It's a " Straight Adult Male Behavior Problem".  

Teen pregnancy is not a teen problem. It's an Adult Problem. Only adults can fix it, because only adults created it. Then, they scapegoated teens into accepting blame for a problem they had no part in creating. And, the country, including the teens, bought it.

Here's the ten dynamics. Again, I won't suck up vast amounts of space- My blog is much more detailed.

1. The Adult Birth Rate/ Role Model Emulation- The TBR and the ABR (adult birth rate) tracked over the last 80 years have followed each other almost lockstep. When the ABR goes up, so does the TBR. When it falls, so does the TBR. Teens have fewer kids, of course. They are only teens for only 7 years. Teens simply follow amost exactly what their role models do, even if they say they don't.

2. Poverty- 60-80% of all girls who give birth as teens come from poverty, and some say it's even higher. The TBR is a function of choices, and poor girls simply have fewer choices.

I gave a talk once to a high school nearby my farm. It was so poor that it was heartbreaking. Bars everywherere on the windows and doors. Concrete where grass should have been. I have seen prisons that were more cheerful.

The girls all kept their eyes down, and the boys were silent. When I got to this part of the talk, they all looked down in silence and anger. Here's the chart I wote on the board.

93702           21K                  20%

92570           32K                  17.3%

92553           38K                   15%

92551           49K                   11%

92557           54K                   10%

92555           62K                    9%

92694           104K                  less than 1%

90077          141K                   0%

These are zip codes in California, including some from the town I was speaking in. The middle number is the average income per family in each town. The last number is the percentage of teen girls who get pregnant and give birth.  

They were fascinated, and asked me several questions. I pointed out that getting pregnant as a teen doesn't make you poor, but instead, poverty makes young women bear children earlier. The wealthier the town, the wealthier the girl, the more choices you have. You don't have to "choose" pregnancy.

3. Sex Abuse/Early Sexualization- We know that at least 66% of all teen moms have been sexually abused. We know this. But we know that this figure just represents those men who have been reported and caught. This number is really much higher, more like 80%.

Sexualization begins at about age 5, and continues on usually into sex abuse , average age about 9. The towns that have the highest TBR also have the highest rate of sex abusers.

Doing a study once for a local town, who had a stunning TBR of 180/1000 (18%), I found that they had a rate of sex offenders to non sex offenders 4 times higher than any other city in California. The local school board refused to believe it, and so far has done nothing. But during my research, I noticed another town, in a state far away, that also  had such a high rate of sex offenders. That town? Juneau Alaska. And we all know who's from Juneau, don't we?

4. Violent/Chaotic Households- Understand, pregnancy allows a young girl to "stop" her world. She can get off this bus for another. To live amongst violence, crime, anger, and physical abuse "pushes" a young girl to want something else. She can "leave' her current situation for another, and pregnancy allows her to do this. The crime rate and the TBR is directly conncted.

5. Social/Economic attraction to Older Males- 80% of all pregnant teens are impregnated by Adults. And the younger the girl, the older than man. Nsnsproductions, who talked about 13 year olds getting pregnant, first, that's sex abuse, and second, almost always these girls are impregnanted by Adults.

A young girl who is being abused sexually, who is poor, who is around violence, sees an older man as a ticket out. Don't be fooled, it's not about sex per se. it's about a way out of her miserable conditions.

6. School and Educational Failure- The debates over the yes to contraception, or yes to abstinence school sex ed programs miss the point entirely, and thus fall far short. These girls have social conditions forced upon them by Adults, and are forced into "social corners", where their choices are so limited as to be almost nonexistent. To them, pregnancy looks good only because everything else looks so bleak. Schools fail miserably to account for the personal lives of their students.

7. Lack of Reproductive health Care- Thank both Clinton and George Bush2 for slashing funding for repreoductive health care simply because they didn't themselves have a uterus. Deciding that young girls didn't need this type of care because they shouldn't be having sex to begin with, it was their way to enforce abstinence.

The assumption that you curb the TBR by curbing sex is false. You curb the TBR by giving young girls more and better choices. You give them a future.

8. Lack of competing choices- What's a young, poor, disdvantaged, abused girl to do? Priced out of college, given only demeaning minimum wage jobs, stay in a crumbling town, watch their friends get pregnant and get married, no good job prospects, no good higher schooling prospects, lack of good strong role models, hating school, she finds herself drifting and searching for happiness. It's not about sex- It's about a child.

9. Male Abandonment- girls that get pregnant young often look for a way out, financially and personally. An older man would help, except that 85% of the men end up leaving. Only 15% stay and help raise the child. None of us really expect Levi or Casey to hang around, do we? What puts teen moms on the welfare rolls is the male leaving- that brings about her poverty.

10. It's a Good Choice- Yes, sadly, this is why it's not madness. This is why it's perfectly rational, perfectly understandable.

Kristen Luker (Dubious Conceptions ) said it best- " It's the discouraged amongst the disadvantaged that get pregnant".  

To the young girl who is being molested, abused, struck, hit, verbally attacked, poor, living in a crime ridden area, attending worn and crumbling schools, no good role models, limited friends, and especilly, limited choices, a pregnancy looks pretty good, at least, no worse than her present situation. That's why everyone thinks it is so amazing that these young girls speak of how cute it would be, how wonderful it would be, what a breeze it would be to have children.

What they are really saying is" Look at my options, folks. Look hard at my options. What else can I do that will bring such happiness to my life? And if it's going to be a  hard life , if it's going to limit my future? Who cares? Society has already forced me into such sad and desperate situations without coming to my rescue, why not have a baby?"  That's what she is really saying.  

Ok, there you go. This is what I tell the schools, exactly what I have told you.

I also have a section where I have "Jim and Mary", a fictional couple, and we follow them from never meeting, to Mary's pregnancy, to the birth, their second child, Jim leaving, Mary's adulthood, Jim's adulthood, and finally, Mary's death. All along the way, we go over all the stats, all the dynamics.

Before I finish, let me say that the three biggest stumbling blocks for people to accept are the sex abuse , the idea that it's a good choice, and the concept that it is and was an adult problem, specifically a straight adult male.

Giving a talk once at a high school, I was asking if Mary was sexually active when she met Jim. She's 15, by the way, and this is before I mentioned anything about sex abuse to the class.  No one answered correctly, some said yes, some said no. I said "The correct answer is "yes, but...". Now,  tell me what the "but" is". No one could understand what I meant.

I walked to the back of the room where a guy was sitting, and he had been whispering to his friend through the whole talk. I stood in front of him and asked directly " Yes, but what ?"

He didn't miss a beat. he said " Yes, but not of her own free will. She's being sexually abused", which of course, is the correct answer. The class was stunned, completely silent. Deep down, they all knew.

And it is a good choice, really, considering everything else. Picking up a rifle and killing a man isn't a very good idea in your hometown, and certainly no one would approve. But a soldier in Iraq might see it completely opposite. It's the circumstances that matter.

And the fact that it's an adult problem? Yes it is. It always has been.

People also come up to me often and say" I was a pregnant teen, and that's not me", or "My friend was pregnant as a teen, and that's not her". I just say "ok, good". I don't argue. I just agree with them.

I have never met the teen that could articulate what I have just told you. No teen is going to say" I got pregnant because of my limited choices, my poverty, sex abuse, etc".  Most sex abuse victims don't speak out until their 30's and 40's. Most teens can't see what an outsider can see.

Oh, they CLAIM they do. Sure. But that's all part of being young. You just have to see it from a much broader perspective than by asking a few girls. And we shouldn't hold it against them either.

Here is where nsnsproductions, who started this whole topic, is exactly correct.

The United States, it has been said, must hate their children. And they must, because we are so willing to sacrifice them on the slightest Adult Whim, whenever and wherever we choose. We abuse them, we hit them, we limit them, we dispose of them. We refuse them help, we keep them in poverty, we lie to them, we destroy their ambition. And we carry on, we Adult paragons of virtue, without the slightest trace of concern.

I'll leave you with what Faye Waddleton said- "If you want to keep a young girl from getting pregnant, don't give her a condom. Give her a better future".

It's been a privilege. If you have comments or questions, I'll answer them. Otherwise, I'll assume you are all sick and tired of me.

Thanks for the time all of you spent reading my article

Rick Machado

Machado Farms

http://www.machadofarms.com/wordpress/index.php

Books to read that will change your life-

The Scapegoat Generation- Mike Males

Dubious Conceptions- Kristen Luker 

Miss America by Day-Marylin Van Derbur

When God Was a Woman- Merlin Stone

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Jill of All Trades's picture

And what role does personal responsibility hold in your argument

Rick -- with all do respect (all though you've shown me little in return) -- your argument completely absolves the teenage girls of any accountability for their own lives. Sorry, but I'm calling BS.

I don't argue with your points -- that the TBR (as you call it) is driven by a number of outside circumstances such as poverty and abuse. I don't argue (in fact I even said it myself) that many girls feel hopeless and (quite fallaciously) see a baby as their only route to happiness. I DO argue that ultimately we are all responsible for our own choices. We all must play the hand we are dealt. Doing the responsible thing is not easy -- especially in a society that often rewards bad behavior over good behavior -- but playing the victim to justify bad decisions is not the answer either.

You've come onto a site for gay women -- where the "I had no other choice but do the irresponsible thing" argument is not going to fly. Do you know how many young women on this site have been shunned by their families for coming out? Do you have any idea of the hardship, scorn, and outright violence these women are facing because of their decision to be honest about themselves? In many ways it would be so much easier for some of us to pretend we're straight, marry some rich guy and just live a nice superficial life. Take the easy way out. But we don't, because being honest is the right and responsible thing to do -- even if it's not easy in the short or even long term. What do these brave young lesbians get for doing the right thing in this society? Absolutely nothing. Conversely, a pregnant teenager will get government benefits. A crooked bank will get a bailout. And THAT is where the problem lies in my opinion.

A new system of accountability needs to be set up, starting from the top down in every facet of society: government, media, entertainment, family. Yes, we need to empower women with better choices -- but how do we do that if the majority of resources are being spent on those who chose to be irresponsible?

Writer_Woman's picture

Right on! (or should I say

Right on! (or should I say "write on"?)  I agree with you.  At some point everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions.  I feel for some of these girls.  I really do.  But I don't think we're teaching them right if all we teach them is to blame everyone else for their actions rather than stepping up to the plate and taking control of their own lives (even more important once they have babies and are responsible for another life).
Anonymous's picture

teen pregnancy

 Hello friends,

I apologize for taking more of your time.

I noticed Ms Jill and Writer Woman commented about the same point.

If I understand it correctly, Jill says that despite the trauma these girls go through, despite being abandoned and disposed of by a pretty un-caring society, they should quit playing the victim, pull themselves up, screw their heads back on straight and do the "responsible" thing, which I assume means staying un-pregnant.

She further goes to on to say lesbians deal with or have dealt with similiar trauma, but have not taken the easy way out. They come out, even though they get nothing but grief for it.

She further compares a teen girl getting government sponsered health care and other benefits to a bank bailout- wow, did you really say that?

Writer Woman agrees, saying that they need to step up and take control of their lives, quit blaming others, and take responsibility.

I am pretty surprised at your statements. Not that you disagree. I just thought I made myself clear. But in this, my last post, let me make my point as absolutely crystal clear as I possibly can, by way of a story.

I am talking with a high school journalism class a few years back, and it's packed with kids. This is my second day there, and I am finishing up with Jim and Mary, my fictional couple.  I ask for questions.

A boy in front says "You know, in all this, I never hear you talk about her and her accountability. You seem to just let her off the hook".

I say " Ok, tell me, in what way am I letting her off the hook ?" I know what he is going to say.

He continues " Well, I mean, she's responsible for her own actions too. She's not entirely blameless. She has a choice. She could do the right thing".

The class is silent. I say " Ok, go on".

He's uncomfortable now. He wants me to acknowledge that yes, she plays a part in this and she could say no to pregnancy, she could make the "right" choice, she could " be responsible".

He says " Why doesn't she just make the right choice"?

I say " She did".

He says " No she got pregnant".

I say " Yes, I know".

No one says a word. Everyone is looking at him and me.

He finally says "But getting pregnant isn't the right choice."

I say, " Oh, but yes it is".

Silence. Stunned silence for about 30 seconds, as they wrap their heads around this. I say nothing. And then a girl in the back, who I thought wasn't paying much attention, says outloud, " He is saying that in Mary's world, getting pregnant is a better choice than not getting pregnant. He is saying that her world is a different world".

I smile a big, clean smile. I am very very happy. "Yes", I say loudly. "Yes. Thank you. Yes. Thank you for seeing it. For Mary, in her topsy turvy world, her world of abuse, of neglect, of poverty, of sadness, her world in which she perceives her future exactly like her past, her world of too much sadness and too little happiness, her world of discouragement, disadvantage, her world of lies, deceit, trauma, with no end in sight, pregnancy is seen by Mary as a solid, viable, responsible, positive choice. In her world, in her view, within the parameters of her outlook, this IS a very very good choice".

There is barely a sound to be heard. An adult has just stepped into this classroom and told a group of both teens and adults that having a baby as a teen is a good choice.

I continue. " When she gets pregnant, statistics show that several positive things happen. First, the sexual abuse stops. Second, if she smokes, she quits. if she drinks, she quits. She eats better, she exercises, she starts to pull herself together".

"Most parents are happy. Most boyfriends are happy, although he will soon leave. She gets health care denied her as a non-pregnant teen. She gets "fussed over". She gets gifts. The poverty that surrounds her is somewhat lifted. She gets more attention at school, even negative attention can be beneficial. She starts to see a future, a future happier than her past."

"Of course it's short lived. Of course it's a short term fix. Of course the happiness doesn't continue indefinitely. Of course not. But not because she got pregnant. But because the USA is a very un-friendly country to be a pregnant woman in."

I finish. I love this part of my talk. I say " You" pointing to the boy " are saying you expect a 15 year old girl to live through the hell she has been forced to live through, and yet, balance it all in her head, then tilt in FAVOR of a society that doesn't give a damn about her? Do you know how many bad decisions, how many selfish decisions adults make on a daily basis? Do you know how badly adults screw up not just their lives, but the lives of others? And you expect Mary to be as good or better than these selfish adults?"

In Mary's world, the bad choice, the irrational choice,  would be to NOT get pregnant. The abuse continues, the poverty crushes her, she will drop out of school, she will need government help regardless, she will be less valuable to society. It seems so illogical, so crazy, yet Mary's world IS illogical, her world IS crazy. She is just, as Jill says, "playing the hand she was dealt". That is exactly what she is doing. If society doesn't like the way she plays her hand, then give her better options.  

For both Jill and Writer Woman to say that there is a lack of personal responsibility in a young teen is completely missing the entire point. Which is why I took 2 hrs a day for 3 days to slowly explain how this works.

It is an all too real world that these girls are forced into where words like "good choices" and "personal responsibility" are just words on a page. They have made a good choice. Getting pregnant, for them, in their world is a perfectly logical, perfectly rational, perfectly responsible choice.

If you, as a society, want a 15 year old girl to see past all that has been done to her, and now use this as some sort of trial and tribulation badge-of-honor, a way of strengthening her character, a way to bend-her-but-not-break-her  sort of boot camp, then by Christ, let the adults in her life, whom she emulates, do it first. And you can take this to the bank, Ladies. They're not. Not by a longshot.

I am sorry Jill sees this as all BS. You would think people who experience pain and hardship in their lives, like gays, would have more compassion for others who have the same.

But everyone is free to have their own opinion. I just wanted to express mine, and show you a different side, something you probably wouldn't normally see.

 At the beginning of every talk, I stand in front of the students and say " Let me explain first why I am NOT here.

I am not here to preach abstinence. It has nothing to do with Teen Pregnancy.

I am not here to lecture you on morals.They have nothing to do with Teen Pregnancy.

I am not here to lecture you on personal responsibility.It has nothing to do with Teen Pregnancy.

I am not here to talk about sex. It has nothing to do with Teen Pregnancy.

I am here for one reason only. To keep women in power. That's all. I want all women to have and keep power.

Because I want women to run the world.

 

So long to all, I enjoyed it, even the negative comments. 

 

 

Rick M   

 

 

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

nsnsproductions's picture

are you gay?

nsnsproductions

Jill of All Trades's picture

What exactly is your solution?

Rick,

You've stepped over the line in your response.

First off, you speak of "society" as if it's this secret organization on top of a mountain somewhere made up of old men with beards who impart choices to some and not others. Society is made up of individuals -- individuals who make choices. And no one gets off the hook when it comes to personal responsibility.

Let's get this clear -- I don't hold a teenage girl more responsible for her choices than I would an adult.  But to say that a teenage girl who knowingly gets pregnant -- who decides to bring another life into her sad world of poverty, abuse, and neglect -- is making the best decision for her life is crap. And even if, in her deluded world, she thinks it's the best decision for her, it most certainly is not for the child she is about to have. I don't argue that she was cornered into her situation by circumstance and by the adults who failed her. But by deciding to have an child, in that same environment of poverty and abuse, isn't she just damning that child to a similar life without choice? Where is her accountability for that? Where does it end if she makes the decision to grow up into one of those selfish adults who don't do right by their children?

Further, what about all the poor, abused, lonely, depressed, young girls who DON'T try to get pregnant? Do you think they're stupid? Or are they just not in enough "pain" to warrant such a choice in your book? Just how much pain does one need to be in to get your free pass? Your argument about teen pregnancy can easily be extended to substance abuse. Some people are in so much pain they have no choice but to get high. Or some people are so poor they have no choice but to sell drugs. Yet for every one of these people who cops out with an excuse, there is another who makes the responsible choice.

I absolutely resent that you would imply that I don't have compassion for people who experience hardship in their lives. That is bullshit and you know it. Quite frankly, I haven't met a woman yet who HASN'T experienced both abuse and hardship in some form or another. Personally, I've had a fair share of both in my life and I've made a considerable number of mistakes. I'm no saint. But be clear, they are my choices, my mistakes, regardless of how many different ways they might be justified in the eyes of some. I own up to them and I pay for them.

We both want women to have and keep power. But no one is going to give me power. Fair or unfair, the world does not work that way. I need to empower myself. I need to keep fighting for my interests and the interest of those like me. I need to be the change I want to see.

Doubt you will respond since you're bowing out. Nevertheless, good luck and godspeed.

Rain's picture

You almost had me paying

You almost had me paying attention until you launched a personal attack on gays and how we might or might not be sympathetic to some cause because of whatever perceived hardship you think we endure.

Wow. Seriously? Not very good public speaking, more like alienate your audience speaking.

While this is a site where this sort of discourse if of course encouraged, did you really expect to come here and post your long posts and not have then challenged however logically or illogically?

No need to get so snippy, especially as you espouse to be the professional. We are just amateurs who are all wrong, after all. Snippy is to be expected from us.

Your being too vague, too general. Making gigantic sweeping generalisations about what does or does not cause teen pregnancies, and basically not backing yourself up, you are leaving yourself wide open to being lambasted by the people on this site.

No, not because we are gay, (we have lots of bisexuals and straight people here too, not to mention trans) but because despite of what you may think, you are not really making sense and then you start to bluster and insist that we are ALL WRONG when we reply to you.

You do realise that we are not all teenagers here, some of us are probably older than you are, with degrees, even. There could easily be someone on this site whose speciality is teen pregnancies, and not just in talking about them.

So before you go making your grandiose statements, perhaps you should consider this. (no offense to the teenagers here, I am just making a point)

What did you expect, all of us to go rushing to your blog to buy/sign up for whatever you are selling?

Make sense, and we will listen. After all, teen pregnancy applies to lesbians as well. As a demographic, teenage gays are prone to unexpected pregnancies. Or some study recently conducted concluded this anyway...

Also, we are obviously human, and this is a discussion forum.

Why don't you try discussing, instead of lecturing and looking down your noses at us?
Anonymous's picture

 Why?   Rick Machado

 Why?

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Anonymous's picture

Hello Jill

 

 Hey Jill,

I was a psyche major in college, so your statement " you're going to bow out " made me laugh. I get it, and no, I won't. But really, all you had to do was ask.

I read and re-read your comments. It's late, especially for a farmer. But your comments are really head-scratching and sad.

I don't doubt you believe in them, and I don't doubt at all that you are anything but sincere. You sound smart, concerned, and no doubt life has seasoned you. I get it , Ok?

But you clearly don't get what is going on here, at least according to your comments.

In person, we may sit and have coffee and settle this in an hour, eyeball to eyeball.

But this may take more time.

Your questions about"Where does it end" and "What about those who DON'T try to get pregnant", and "damning a child" , "teenagers who knowingly get pregnant" makes me shake my head. Maybe it's my writing skills.

I've got some farm stuff to get done. Give me a few days, ok? I will try to present it better.

Your statement about crossing a line made me laugh even harder, , but I did like your subject line- " What exactly is your solution?" Now that is smart, and that is the question you and everyone should be asking me. It's one thing to criticize, but another to solve. That was good and pertinent.

 We'll yak- Rick M 

 

 

 

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Anonymous's picture

I come to you on bended knee Jill...

 Tell me about yourself. I'm curious.

 

 Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

nsnsproductions's picture

i think its time

that you become comfortable with your sexuality. i feel that you're not able to fully express yourself because you're holding yourself back.

我对?

Jill of All Trades's picture

Thanks for the offer rick...

But I must respectfully decline. There's only so much personal info I like to throw out into the ether. You can PM (private message) me and if you want and I'll try to give you a little more background.

 

Anonymous's picture

It's either comfortable for you or it's not

 

 I understand and respect your position, and won't push you. I'm not a PM type of guy.

I wrote a whole treatise this morning responding to you and Sharon, and the website lost it before I posted it. Crap!

I will try to rewrite it tomorrow. Rick m

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Anonymous's picture

Really nsnsproductions?

 

 I am not sure how you determine just how comfortable I am with my sexuality from afar, but I feel I have I expressed myself  completely, without holding back.

 

Anyone that has read my posts can assume that A) I like and respect women, B) I want women to run the world ) I feel perfectly comfortable disagreeing and arguing with them C) I am not afraid of them D) I am androgynous in my spiritual, mental, physical, and sexual worlds, and E) I believe there is no greater enemy to women than another woman.

Take me as you see me Ms. Ns.

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Sharon's picture

I see a lot of these points

I see a lot of these points, from both Rick Machado and the comments to his theories. I do like that Rick is trying to take away the "blame" from the teen mother. In the media, the teen mother is given a bad name when there are many factors involved with that situation.

I agree with all of his factors as well. The abuse, the failure of this countries adults to create some sort of possitive future for these girls, those are all very valid points. I agree that these girls are cornerned into these decisions. To them getting pregnant is the right decision. I get that. However, in most cases, it is still the irresponsible decision. Yes, it does give them the love they crave, and that temporary happiness with they also crave, however they are still subjecting a new life to the termoil and crushing decisions which they had to suffer throughout their lives.

These women do have options in front of them. I grew up in one of these areas, I myself as a young confused 15 year old girl had a baby. I was well aware of all my options. My circumstance was a little different than that of other girls, but i accepted my decision to keep my child. 

If these girls are educated about the options they do have, such as sex education, education on how to escape the abuse they may suffer from, how they can afford college by getting scholarships or attending a community college, and things like that, then they have more power over their own situations. 

These girls need to be responsible for themselves. Yes, their situations are bleak. Yes, for them it is a better decision, so it may seem.  However, they are not just affecting their outcomes, they are affecting the outcomes of the new lives they bring in. That is why personal responsibility cannot be brushed under the rug, even if the desicions make sense and are the most accessible to them.

I am also curious about the men which Rick has described as the "typical male". What they are described as, and such. And could these men also be "victems" of this soceital system to which these women are subjected to?

 

Anonymous's picture

To Sharon

 Hello Sharon.

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the interest.

I am going to write to both Jill and nsns, and you as well, to fine tune and hone in on my beliefs, as soon as I get the free time.

But before I do, I am sure we would love to hear your experience with a pregnancy at such a young age.

Please be honest and free. Your experience will give us all insight.

 Thanks - Rick M

 

 

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Sharon's picture

Well

I was young and very confused trying to figure out my sexuality. I thought I was living in an extremely conservative area, and I tried to be exclusively with boys (they weren't men) to hide my attraction to women. I was afraid of my parents reaction to my sexuality, even though they ended up being very accepting and supportive, and I had a condom break which lead to the conception.

He did not stick around, which was no loss to me, and life has been good to me since I accepted my sexuality. 

I wasn't seeking to have a child, I simply found myself with that decision to make, and I am proud to have a very bright little girl. She makes the hard times less hard.

Rain's picture

not good math

not good math

What you need is a sampling of say, 1000 girls. You also need to find out if they got pregnant in high school, or after high school.

Then, to make it more accurate, repeat the survey in different economic strata and parts of the country. Collate and grade your results and have a statistician go over them for accuracy, then see. (How region, economics, even race, age and so on factor in, did they have an abortion?)

I would be shocked if the number was more than say thirty percent.

Probably in the case of your example, nine out of ten girls you knew got pregnant. Still, a very disturbing thing especially if it messed up their chances in life, their education, or just their life.
Anonymous's picture

teen pregnancy

I will be responding to my critics soon, those who say my view of teen pregnancy doesn't account for the teen's personal responsibility.

 

They all agree that teens are both physically and sexually abused, and they are demeaned and forced to live in violence, they agree that they are sexualized, they agree that they are forced to live in poverty, are often homeless, they agree that they have few to no role models, they agree that the schools fail them, they agree that there is little or no health care for these girls until they get pregnant, they agree Adults are responsible for their limited choices, and they also agree that they have little to no future.

Yet they still want to cling to the life raft of "personal responsibility", and they view a new child from these girls as an "irresponsible decision".  As though a 15 year old girl can view life through the eyes of a 35 year old woman.

 Ok, I will respond. As soon as my farming life allows.

BTW, Rain makes a good point on the math. It is not good.

Thanks. I promise to make it good.

 

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Anonymous's picture

teen pregnancy

Hello friends, I am free for 1 hour, so I am going to finish this.

But before I do, let me say a few things about the TBR.

The teen birth rate, TBR, is one of the most widely used tools to gauge the health of a population.

Just by knowing the TBR, we can tell the poverty rate. As I have said, the higher the median income, the lower the TBR. This is a given.

We can approximate very closely the health care, the school districts, the crime, the economy, jobs, marraiges, divorce rate, pursuit of higher education, suicide rates, drug abuse, and of course, sex abuse. This we all know, they are all interrelated.

And we also know that that the TBR is the pulse of it all. In fact, the United Nations does an annual review of all nations on earth, called the Health of Nations, and uses two statistics to acertain just how healthy a given country is- the TBR and the fertility rate of women. So we all have a stake in reducing the TBR.  

When Jill and Sharon write to say that Mary is being irresponsible, they are missing the entire point of my article. For one, she IS being responsible, perfectly responsible, perfectly rational, perfectly logical. It's just that she is being responsible to HERSELF first. What Jill and Sharon are saying is they want Mary to be MORE responsible to society than she is to herself. Mary should look beyond her current life, into the future, balance it all in her head, and then, because her happiness is less important than the impact of a pregnancy on the new child and all of us, make the "mature" decision to postpone said pregnancy, buckle down, and get her shit together.

Mary can't see at 15 what Jill can see at 35. She can't because Jill is more than twice Mary's age. To see Mary at 15 as irresponsible is easy when you're 35. I'm 53. I can just as easily see Jill as irresponsible, or Sharon. I am almost 20 years older. The point isn't whether Mary is irresponsible or not, or responsible or not. The point is Mary thinks she's being responsible. She just wants to make sure she's responsible to herself first. Besides, Mary thinks she is going to do a good job.  

Now let's assume for the moment that Jill and Sharon are right.  Let's assume that Mary SHOULD forgo her search for what she sees as happiness, and instead, look for something else to make her happy. She should be mature beyond her years, quit blaming others, and make the "right" choice.

If you believe this, then the way to curb the TBR is to do what we in the US have been doing for decades. Concentrate of teen behavior. Use abstinence as a tool. Deny contraception. Use words like morals, values, traditional families. See sex in terms of procreation. Attck pregnant teens as being irresponsible, hold them up in shame to the rest of society.

And of course, it doesn't work, it HASN'T worked and it WON'T work. It won't work because that isn't why teens choose pregnancy. You will NEVER curb the TBR this way. NEVER.

My point has been simple all along. If you really, really want to keep young girls from being silenced, if you really really want them to choose a future different than one of young pregnancy, then you concentrate on Adult Actions.

You accept that the TBR is tied exclusively to the economy. The lines for unemployment and the TBR are almost exactly the same, and have been for years.

You open your eyes to the horrific sexual abuse taken place every day, and you educate yourself to the warning signs.

You distibute condoms freely at all schools. You encourage sexually active girls to adopt more permanent contraception, the pill, the patch, etc.

You make college affordable. Universal health care shows just how selfish the baby boomers really are. If they really cared about kids, they would push for universal schooling first, especially higher education.

You have sex ed from kindergarten on up.

You work to pull people from poverty.

You explain to young people how this all works, so that they can see themselves being at risk.

And most of all, you talk to Adult Males, especially the slimeballs like Bill Clinton. They're the ones getting the "free pass". They are the ones responsible, they are the ones we should be focusing on. They need the lectures, not the teens.

Ok that's it, whether you buy it or not.

Lastly, Sharon asked me about the "typical male" involved in this.

This guy is an adult, average age at first impregnation 21.5, average age of female 15.2.

He graduated from high school, has a job, car, cash, and an apartment or house he shares with buddies.

He is emotionally stunted, usually brought up in a tense, violent, sexually repressed house. Usually broken family somewhere along the line. has brothers and sisters.

Recreational drug user/drinker/smoker. Has no great ambitions. Steady job, not glamorous, but higher than minimum wage.

Uncomfortable wiith women his own age, but knows how to seduce a young girl. She's older than her years, he's younger, so it makes a quasi-sense.

Starts sex with her after about 3 months of dating. She gets pregnant within 6 months. He's happy, or so he pretends. She's usually very happy, as is her family.

He has sex abuse in his family, if not directly involving him, then he's aware of it within his or extended fmily. Comfortable around violence.

Is quick to feel "disrespect". Quick to anger. Sees other males as rivals. Jealous. Posessive. Needs to be in control.

She lives at home, they don't move in together right away. About 6 months, he starts to feel distant, enclosed, feels a bit trapped. At about 6 months to a year, she gets pregnant again. It's a way to extend the happiness, a way to "hold on to it", to "relive it again".

It doesn't happen that way. Jim has no interest in being a dad, or being committed. After about the 2 year mark, Jim leaves.

 I won't go into it all, but it's safe to say, it only gets worse for Mary. Jim goes on to father more children, and Mary goes on to have 2 more, or thereabouts.

Again let me say, thanks for letting me write on your forum. I appreciate the interest. I can't write more, this time I am bowing out. If you want to write to me, please go to my blog and leave a comment, I will try to respond that way.

Let me leave you with this.

 Next time you are wandering around this world, and you see a pregnant teen, stop and think. Don't say "What a slut. What an irresponsible person". Instead say " Wow. I wonder what her story is".  

Rick M

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Sharon's picture

Ok

I do not think that any one on this forum is trying to suggest that a pregnant teen is a "slut". The women on this site have far more respect for women than that. It is not about being a "slut". Secondly, I am not 35, I am 22, and even though I have retrospect and can look back on my situation, I had all the resources I needed to make the decision I made. My child is not suffering from the conditions which you describe aside from the societal pressures that everyone suffers from. 

It is my belief that bringing a child into a world of violence and abuse is irresponsible. I put a lot of thought when I was 15 into whether or not I was ready to have a child and if my child would live a good life with me. I then graduated from highschool on time, went to college, I am taking an extra year to finish so that i have more time with my daughter, but i am more or less on time with that. Throughout this, I have been my daughters primary care giver.

These girls have options. It is societies responsibility to show these options to these girls. We can't put all of the responsibility of the pregnancies on the girls, I think that most responsibility should be put on the factors that lead to the pregnancies. However, these girls still make the decision, and sometimes having a child is a good decision for both mother and child. A lot of the times, the mother is only repeating the cycle which she was subjected to. Responsibility cannot be completely taken from these girls.

Jill of All Trades's picture

Rick it's not either/or -- it's AND

I couldn't agree more with what Sharon wrote -- and quite frankly she is the expert in this arena, because she lived through it. She stated my exact point of view more eloquently than I could.

I don't disagree with any of your following points.

You accept that the TBR is tied exclusively to the economy. The lines for unemployment and the TBR are almost exactly the same, and have been for years.

You open your eyes to the horrific sexual abuse taken place every day, and you educate yourself to the warning signs.

You distibute condoms freely at all schools. You encourage sexually active girls to adopt more permanent contraception, the pill, the patch, etc.

You make college affordable. Universal health care shows just how selfish the baby boomers really are. If they really cared about kids, they would push for universal schooling first, especially higher education.

You have sex ed from kindergarten on up.

You work to pull people from poverty.

You explain to young people how this all works, so that they can see themselves being at risk.

And most of all, you talk to Adult Males, especially the slimeballs like Bill Clinton. They're the ones getting the "free pass". They are the ones responsible, they are the ones we should be focusing on. They need the lectures, not the teens.

And you should know by now that I don't hold any of the puritanical values about sexuality that you mentioned. And I've never resorted to derogatory (ie, slut) language to describe these teens.

It's interesting that you have a very black and white view -- society is always responsible and the individual teenager never is. I think there is culpability, as Sharon pointed out, on both ends -- and depending on each circumstance, the balance of culpability varies. Yes, many of these young women are victims themselves.  However, by actively trying to conceive (I'm not talking about accidental pregnancies) -- knowing full well that they do not have the means to properly care for a child, and in some cases knowing they will be bringing another life into a dangerous environment -- they are making a conscious choice to perpetuate a cycle of victimization.

You state:

For one, she IS being responsible, perfectly responsible, perfectly rational, perfectly logical. It's just that she is being responsible to HERSELF first. What Jill and Sharon are saying is they want Mary to be MORE responsible to society than she is to herself

And that is where you are dead wrong. I don't expect Mary to be more responsible to society than herself; I expect her to be more responsible for her UNBORN CHILD. The essence of parenting is putting the needs of your child before your own. I don't care that parent is a teenager, adult, woman, man, WHATEVER. Babies are not puppies.

Teenagers make this choice, because, as you've pointed out,  they get rewarded for it in the short term: With government assistance, attention, and perhaps even a promise from their boyfriend to marry them. Doesn't make it responsible. A selfish parent is not a responsible parent.

Sharon's picture

Thank You

I didn't think I was making sense at first:)
Que's picture

if kids have sex ed in kindergarden

then kids should have sex in kindergarden...i would...since i was already be freaky anyway at that age.

and if kids are having sex then adults would start to have sex with the kids since they're having sex anyway...sex is sex right-thats how the a child molestor would see it. and would it be illegal since 5 years are being taught what sex was anyway. 

i suggest kids dont be taught sex when they're five because there are perverts in the world and they'll take full advantage of that...i would if i was one-but im not.

but im just making a point.

Anonymous's picture

Thank You

 I just wanted to quickly thank Jill and Sharon, for their comments about my much long-winded oration. Their rebuttals and their demand for "personal responsibility" proved my point exactly, especially Sharon. Your statements and insight are living proof of how complex the situation may seem, but in reality, it isn't.

As for some who are  saying I am doing this to get people to my web site to sell something, or to  somehow profit off a teen birth, that's not only untrue, but very cruel . I don't have anything to sell with regards to teen pregnancy. I almost always do it for free. I've used my real name. I laid it all out to a pretty tough crowd for anyone to slam as they please. I think that says something.  

Thanks again.

 

 

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Anonymous's picture

teen pregnancy

 This subject is about to drop off the radar.

 But before it does, for all those who believe in the "personal responsibility" of teens, those who believe if only those teens got their shit together, the skeptics, the ones who dislike me, the ones who hold teens to a standard even adults can't reach,the ones who feel teens are being irresponsible to their unborn children,  the ones who feel I am profiting off teens, maybe you should read this.

It's Tuesday's news, Annie's Mailbox.

 http://www.creators.com/lifestylefeatures/annies-mailbox/annie-s-mailbox-r-2009-03-17.html

 

 

 

Rick Machado

Public Speaker on Teen Pregnancy

Jill of All Trades's picture

Not a good representation of your argument...

Rick you're lumping apples with oranges and calling them the same fruit.

The girl in the story conceived out of rape. She did not ask to be raped. She did not actively try to get pregnant. In both cases she was a victim.

Do I agree with her decision to keep the baby? No. But that is her choice to make considering the circumstances of her pregnancy. This pregancy was not her choice so she bears no responsibility for it. One could argue that she bears responsibility for the choices she makes afterwards -- but  even I wouldn't go there.

My argument about personal responsibility does not apply to this young woman -- it applies to the young women who are trying to concieve. Who are having unprotected sex with multiple partners with the sole goal of conceiving. Who are making pregnancy pacts because they think having a baby is cute. Who are trying to get pregnant so they can hang on to a boyfriend. Or get attention. Who in some cases already have a child they can't adequately care for yet continue to follow the same pattern of behavior with the hope of conceiving. And by young women I mean women in their 20's as well.

It is absolutely insulting to insinuate that there's no difference between a rape victim and the young women I just described. There is. Just as there is a difference between young women who get pregnant accidentally versus those who get pregnant intentionally. The difference is INTENT. Don't tell me they have no choice. If they can scour the Internet for tips on how to conceive, then they can just as easily scour the Internet for scholarship information or abuse hotlines. They bear responsibility for the choice that they are making.

Arguing that all women who make dumb choices are victims of circumstance is actually quite anti-feminist; it suggests women are incapable of controlling their own destiny and belittles those who are truly victims. Like the young women in the story you sent.

Your one size fits all argument does not work. Each situation is unique.