coming on to this thread then if it's messing with your otalia obsession.

So i'm guessing you didn't click back a few pages then.

Hamas is a terrorist organization unless you don't see anything wrong with whats in their charter.

Someone called you anti-semitic in real life hmmmm, so did you call them a Nazi in return?

"All Arabs hate Jews and want to see them wiped off the face of the map." Of course thats not true, all of them don't hate the Jews. Just some of them, even one of the leaders of Hamas said he dreams of a map with no Israel. Or how the leader of Iran started a chant of death to Israel. It's not all of them, just some of them. Did you also tell the MP that you thought he was a murderer as well?

Now I understand you are bringing your own personal issues that you have with the Jews since we are all alike, onto this thread. Which means you had your mind already made up before you even started posting.

Hamas were is own people, b/c both of them are Palestinian.

I wonder what that whole truce deal included, b/c that would really answer some questions. I still think they are making some crazy demands, with the whole request of 400+ prisoners when they were offered 300+ earlier. If I showed you a link to a story about 2 reporters kidnapped and forced at gunpoint to conver to Islam by Hamas......would you deny that story too?

"But it's not really fundamentalist not to want to give up your home in the West Bank."

What are you talking about, that whole sentence makes no sense..and whats with the your home part?

If you had read the links you would see that Sharia law is recognized in your country. It allows for women to be tried in your country under Sharia law if charges are brought against them. The link below is a story about a group trying to get rid of Sharia law in Britian.

http://womensgrid.freecharity.org.uk/?p=1431

Yeah you could move to America, if you actually lived in Gaza in the first place and Sharia law was the reason for you moving. You wouldn't like America it has to many what you call "murderers" walking around. I would hate for you to walk into the wrong bar and say the wrong thing to them.

Britian doesn't have gay marriage either so whats your point about ignoring Prop 8? Why come to an American site for bigots when i'm sure you can find them in your own country.

Israel does recognize gay marriage, the only country in the middle east and one of the few throughout most of the world to do so. No wonder gay Palestinians run away to Israel, it must not be that bad after all. There are countries that do embrace gay people. And there are also pockets of people in any religion that do embrace gay people.

"Come On Then Get These Good Done Debbies"

it's a shame it's gonna take her ending up in the hospital for Natalia to say something, as was shown in the previews today.

"Of course, there are Jews out there who do not support Israel and who can see through the propaganda." Then don't say something like what you said before:

"It's very hard to have a debate with any Jewish person without the same old tired propaganda being flung in your face."

I see a comment like that where you say "any Jewish" person and it's going to appear that you just have something against all Jewish people. Similar to if I said well it's hard to have a debate with any white person, black person, asian, hispanic, etc, etc. it would look as though I have a prejudice against that race of people. Honestly after reading that especially, i'm thinking what's the point of talking to you at all really since you just lumped all Jewish people together. I'll come back later maybe and respond to the stuff you pointed out, but right now idk if it's even worth it.....I feel like i'm talking to someone who is going to disregard everything I say b/c i'm Jewish.

"Come On Then Get These Good Done Debbies"

not surprised that you like article 20 at all. 1988 is not too old for a charter.

"I know you never read Ben Gurion's quotes and biography, you said you did but I don't believe you. It took me about a week to read it." If I learned anything in college it's how to read fast, b/c when you have papers due it's amazing how you can pick up a skill such as that.

"But he did support Israel in their slaughter... which makes him complicit.

To answer your question... No, I never called him a Nazi. He would've had me arrested."

So since you support Hamas in firing rockets does that make you complicit.

So that was the only thing stopping you from calling him a Nazi, for shame.

"Very few Jews do not support Israel. You are Jewish. Do you have a lot of Jewish friends?

How many of them believe what Israel is doing is wrong?"

Nope.

They were his people, when America had a civil war even if it was the south vs the north at the end of the day they were killing their own people.

"You made it sound like if you took all the fundamentalists out of the equation, everything would be fine and dandy." Never said it would make everything fine and dandy. This is what I said: (If you take the fundamentalist out of the equation on both sides, peace would have a better chance of happening in the region.) That does not eqaul fine and dandy at all.

"If both sides agree to negotiate, it is likely any solution will involve Israeli settlers in the West Bank having to give that land back to the Palestinians.

And they're not going to want to do that." Even if they do agree to that deal they would still not agree to handing over all the prisoners that Hamas wants, which would also halt negotiations.

Gay marriage is not legal in Britian, a civil-partnership yes......marriage not happening. There are only 6 countries with Gay marriage and Britian is not one of them.

"Indeed I can. Which is my point. Homophobia is a world problem and not just an Islamic one." where did the mention of Islam come from I wasn't even talking about Islam. My problem is with fundamentalist of any religion.

I didn't say since 2005 I said if you stop at 2005. If the lives lost were over a long span and not a short one, does it make it any better for that family in the end. The answer is no. I can honestly say I feel bad for both sides that have lost their loved ones. I only brought up numbers since you were all I want numbers. In my mind even if it's just 1 that one person was somebody's someone. All b/c i'm not backing Hamas and bashing Israel, doesn't mean that I don't care about human life. I just have a personal disgust for suicide bombers and groups that support that sort of thing.

"Come On Then Get These Good Done Debbies"

In his MIT speech when he quotes PM Olmerts speech in 2006 to congress, and how he only quotes one section of it, but not the rest of it. B/c if he finished the rest of that quote then his point would have been mute. After seeing that I started looking at the rest of the points made by Chomsky. I think he gives the US to much credit for the war with Lebanon and what happened in Gaza. I went backed and watched his speech again just to see if other posters who talk about the video had a point about him not talking about Egypt. That does raise some eyebrows. I wonder why he doesn't elaborate on how Israel was able to create peace with Egypt and Jordan, and one point Israel had a nice chunk of Jordan that was given back.

I just wonder why he leaves some stuff out, and other information. It makes his view just as bias as anyone else. As "boring" as he speeches are I was expecting a more un-biased speech. Usually the broing speeches are the least bias b/c they are just listing facts.

"Come On Then Get These Good Done Debbies"

1300 Palestinians, numbers were shown earlier to demonstrated that most of those killed were part of Hamas........and not just innocent civilians.

We could bring up the 20,000 attempted terrorist attacks against civilians in Israel from 01 to 06. If every one of those had been a success, imagine those numbers it would be insane. Then again it doesn't matter b/c they are Jewish and since they all think alike they had it coming. Those figures come from the PM himself Olmert, I can give you a link to his speech if you want it...it's the same speech that Chomsky half quoted which equals a half truth, all b/c if he had finished the quote it would have ruined his speech.

"Come On Then Get These Good Done Debbies"

You know i never actually weighed into this conversation but i admire Jewish people more because what they are doing, they are doing in self defence. Not because of malice or racist hate unlike the British massacres. Whatever is happening is because of Britain's actions in 1947 and it is about time people accept the existence of Israel now. I can accept the injustices carried out by US and other countries as well as Israel but i am not going to validate the actions of a terrorist group like Hamas (one of many in the world. A number of them exist in the subcontinent as well who carry out similar activities) who have in their rules the requirement to wipe out all Jews and Israel. Sorry, I don't support that and never will. If they want my support they will put down their arms and lead a non-violent peaceful protest movement like Gandhi,MLK and Mandela did. 1000-2000 innocent people were killed, many more wounded when without warning General Dyer ordered British soldiers to indiscriminately kill anyone they could see and all exit routes from the garden blocked. Those people did nothing at all to deserve it,and this was meant to be retaliation because some British woman had alleged that she had been molested.

Where was your outrage then? For the families of people that were wiped out. Growing up  I heard stories of blood soaked walls, of bullet riddled bodies, of young children crying as their parents were deliberately shot in that incident. I'm sure Palestinian children hear such versions of their past. However, i was never taught, encouraged or pushed towards hating British people in general. No, I just hated the acts carried out. I have never held any sort of animosity towards British people. However, encountering condescending attitudes, unfair remarks and prejudices in my short stay in Britain made me look at things differently. 

Why has your government not issued an apology since then? Why were the people responsible not tried? Dyer was never tried for his actions. A few British people condemned this action, the House of Lords passed a measure commending General Dyer,the British press labelled him a "saviour," the Morning post (now the Daily telegraph) praised him and started a sympathy fund which collected 30 000 pounds. He was given a memoir present. Military officers laughed and boasted about it and wished they could have done more but they were glad to "teach the bloody browns a lesson." So in response, Gandhi set up a non-cooperation movement, which was non-violent, to protest these actions. Later on, an Indian revolutionary went to London and shot Dyer (note: he didn't shoot innocent men, women and children on the streets of London or send stray rockets into their area) because justice was not being served. And was later hung. Many Indian newspapers did not approve of this revolutionary's actions and Gandhi condemned it. Compare that to Hamas and tell me of any Hamas leaders or Palestinians who have condemned their terrorism. Comparing this non-violent freedom movement to the open terrorism practiced by Hamas cheapens it.  

They probably didn't cover this bit of your conquests accurately in your history classes. Or perhaps underestimated the number killed. There is no way British cruelty, inhumanity and your actions can be summed up in one sentence. This was your Gaza, your moment of Nazism and your government has yet to apologize for it or to offer any symbolic gestures for it. Deliberate brown deaths are not as important as various plagues, huh? British people may have become bit more aware but your mentality and view of brown people and those not like you is the same. In 1997 the Duke of Edinburgh visited the monument for those dead and provoked outrage for an offhand comment. Having observed a plaque claiming "This place is saturated with the blood of about two thousand Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims who were martyred in a non-violent struggle.", Prince Philip observed, "That's a bit exaggerated, it must include the wounded". When asked how he had come to this conclusion, Philip said "I was told about the killings by General Dyer's son. I'd met him while I was in the Navy."

British imperialism has had more destructive impact than all the other imperialisms combined yet you Brits continue to criticise other countries but do little to make up for the consequences for your actions. Australia and Canada have apologized to their native inhabitants for crimes against them, have you apologized to  the people you invaded?  I am not ok with the murder of any humans but 1300 is a drop in the water compared to the tens of millions killed and forcefully converted by the Brits. And don't you like playing the number game when figuring out your priorities. Yet you British people will remain quiet about your own atrocities but dish it out on other people. You people eptiomise hyprocisy.

The British invaders were dishonest and backstabbing liars. Every time you have invaded a land you have used people's good will and hospitality against them and then used your strategy of divide and conquer to divide people. The Israeli people have not invaded numerous foreign lands. In fact, they were tossed out of numerous lands. You Brits have no history of oppression so i can hardly compare you to the Israelis. If Britain does have an imperialist present, why don't you do something about it? The other imperialists you mention have a system in place to try their officers who offend, yet you have not tried many of  the British officers who have committed atrocities. Yet, I doubt they will be tried today even. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. 

Have you ever suffered from terrorism? Have any of your relatives died of a suicide bombing/terrorist attack? If your answer is in the negative then obviously you won't understand my point of view. If the Palestinians want peace they will adopt peaceful nonviolent actions not the militant violent ones.  No matter what. There was apartheid in Africa, there were numerous equivalent injustices in the subcontinent and they didn't respond with violence, did they? African Americans were lynched by the KKK, did they start suicide bombing themselves? If  they want peace they will find a Gandhi/MLK/Mandela to represent them and have a change in attitude. They will love their children more than they hate Jews and they will not see suicide bombing as a weapon they can use. Suicide bombing conveys that you do not value your own life or the life of others. Till that time i can have no sympathy for their cause. I can feel sad about death on both sides but i cannot support their actions. They are the ones who want independence then they should act like other countries who got independence don't act like terrorists. If Gandhi had advocated suicide bombing and rocket attacks on innocent civilians in London i wouldn't support him either. But Mahatma Gandhi never did that and that's what his enemies respected about him.

Not to generalize but i have found that British Caucasian lesbians, like straight British women, are also fairly racist and rude towards lesbians of colour, compared to other Caucasians, so maybe i'm biased against you people. Saying things like "I find Asian(or whatever nationality the person is) hot but i would never date one because there are too many differences. Like skin colour, culture and other  things." or "you people are strange and have strange customs." Or " Eww, I would never date a brown South Asian girl" etc.

American  and other European Caucasian lesbians are far more open-minded and less snobby. The only friendly Brits i have met are Jewish British lesbians so i assumed they would most likely be different to most of you.  You think i'm being rude well i think you're being rude to the Jewish/Israeli lesbians here and you're doing nothing good for the Israel/Gaza cause. You don't like me generalizing about British people then don't generalize about Israeli people either. I have met quite a few Israeli straight and lesbian women and they are the nicest, friendliest and least racist people one could hope to meet. Always open to learning about new cultures and they respect me and my background.

I can understand where your coming from though. For you the Palestinians are the most  oppressed people in the world and because white guilt is consuming and eating away at you, as it should, you must protect and defend the defenceless and vulnerable.  I am not ok with your double standards however and you Brits thinking you're better than everyone else.

Just so you hate me more (because i like it when i get that reaction from White British people particularly lesbians..it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside) i think Xena/Gabrielle and Tina/Bette make a hotter and better pair than Otalia. :)

Don't pretend you like me because (i am rude or whatever) it is obvious you are being fake. Just be honest and straightforward. I know you hate me just like all the other white British people (straight and gay) i've met. I know if I was living in Britain right now you'd be itching to tell me to "go back to the hole you came from," right? Maybe you would also say "Oh, I can't believe they let people like you in here." You know you want to say that..don't you? 

Please, don't keep hitting your head on the wall. I'm sure you have a very pretty head and i'd hate to see it bruised. I'm sure your gf wouldn't like that either. So if you want to bang your head on a wall, make sure its one made of feathers or cotton. That's my recommendation anyway.  

Anyway, rude or not, you can't handle me. No one can because i'm too....

 

I said. Most does not equal all. Once again where did I say that ALL 1300 were Hamas. Shame you can't find that quote that doesn't exist. I said most but not all, like you claim I did. Don't play the quote game if you can't do it word for word.

"Probably b/c Hamas would blend in with the civilians and be evacuated as well. As for women and children that could have worked if women and children were not used as weapons by Hamas to kill Israelis."

Once again did not say that the women and children were all suicide bombers....try again. Now your pulling a Chomsky only giving part of the story. Why not include your question before that response of mine. The one in which you ask why did Israel not let the women and children leave. My guess when I said probably is b/c women and children were used as weapons by Hamas to kill Israeli's. Once again try one more time....just one more.That's me giving my guess as to why Israel did not let all the women and children into their country before they went into Gaza. 

"there simply is no other way to take over land where you are not wanted" there goes a Chomsky quote for ya. He later goes on to claim that Israel is land hungry, and that the peace deal with Egypt is a sham b/c the one before that was better, etc, etc.

Maybe you should look harder for those stories in this thread, that you did not find.

"Have I ever lied to you?
I'm pretty sure I haven't.
But if I have... quote me."

Sure here goes one:

"Gays can get married in Britain. It's perfectly legal" Nope it's not call marriage try again.

"I apologise for that comment. It was a poor choice of words" That was a lie, b/c you go on to call Jews ignorant later on.

Then again I shouldn't expect anything else from someone who says this:

"It's very hard to have a debate with any Jewish person without the same old tired propaganda being flung in your face."

and then this some posts later, after you fake apology

"Maybe I wouldn't believe Jews are blindly ignorant if you didn't keep proving my point."

Or maybe it's another case of "poor choice of words" for you.

"Come On Then Get These Good Done Debbies"

avoiding your question about the Jewish friends thing, b/c you asked it before and I gave you an answer. Maybe you just don't read everything I post anyways seeing as how i'm just an ignorant Jew as you would say.

It's ok if you don't like Jews, just don't try to sugar coat it. If you don't like Jews, then you don't like Jews. That way everyone knows that your views are laced with prejudice and hate for the Jewish people from the start.

"Come On Then Get These Good Done Debbies"

I know it'll take some effort but i would appreciate it if you could answer my questions above.

If the Israeli government are Nazis so is the British Government in the present or past. Your British empire was full of white supremacists and neo-Nazis and your Royal family, who did nothing to stop or convict the people who carried out atrocious acts, are the spawn of Satan. The British officers who carried out those acts of terrorism wouldn't know love, compassion and the meaning of a human being if they were taught t everyday for the rest of their lives.

Isn't generalizing fun?

I know of the photos and videos Maggie posts of because a number of them were posted here. I think you'll have to search from the beginning. It may take some time and effort.