i must admit this brings up mixed feelings. i am grieving the fact that here
in California AB19 did not pass, a bill that would have allowed gay marriage in California.
It makes me mad! (':(')

Spain is so ahead of the curve, somehow the Spanish people are able to move ahead so much more quickly then Americans.
They just have been able to move past the rigidity of the church after Franco
it is amazing!

I just wish we could do that here in the US. What are people here so afraid of?
I also wish the GLBT activist movement was as organized and as strong as
the fundamentalist movement is here in the US.

What do others think?

It sounds like the final vote on this bill will be tomorrow:

[quote:0970c82d29="www.advocate.com"]June 29, 2005

[b:0970c82d29]Opponents of same-sex marriage in Spain present petition ahead of final vote[/b:0970c82d29]

A Catholic lay group opposed to marriage equality for same-sex couples presented Spanish lawmakers [b:0970c82d29]Wednesday[/b:0970c82d29] with a petition bearing 600,000 signatures, [b:0970c82d29]a day before the parliament was expected to legalize same-sex unions in Spain[/b:0970c82d29].

The Spanish Family Forum said the signatures were in addition to half a million others presented last month pressing the Socialist government to call a referendum on whether Spain should institute same-sex marriage. "We are asking for a referendum, and then we'll know what Spaniards really want," said Luis Carbonel, president of a group that is part of the forum.

The organization also wants conservative Spanish lawmakers opposed to same-sex marriage to file a lawsuit seeking to have it declared unconstitutional on the grounds that marriage can be the union of only a man and a woman.

Outside the parliament building, a small group of demonstrators wore white masks with red X's over the mouth to symbolize their view that Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero is silencing traditional Spanish families.

[b:0970c82d29]The bill, expected to be passed Thursday in the lower house of parliament, legalizes same-sex marriage and gives same-sex couples the same rights as heterosexual ones, including the right to adopt children and inherit each other's property.[/b:0970c82d29]

Zapatero's bill has infuriated the church in this mainly Roman Catholic country. The church took the rare step of endorsing a rally on June 18 in which hundreds of thousands of people marched through Madrid to oppose the same-sex marriage bill. Some 20 bishops took part in the rally.

Late last year the spokesman for the Spanish Bishops Conference, Antonio Martinez Camino, said allowing same-sex couples to marry was like "imposing a virus on society, something false that will have negative consequences for social life."

A survey released in May by pollster Instituto Opina said 62% of Spaniards support the government's action on this issue and 30% oppose it. The poll had a margin of error of three points. (AP)[/quote:0970c82d29]

... *screams with joy* -

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They did it!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote:6d29c3e89e="www.nytimes.com"]June 30, 2005

[b:6d29c3e89e]Spain Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage[/b:6d29c3e89e]

By RENWICK McLEAN

MADRID, June 30 - The Spanish Parliament gave final approval today to a bill legalizing same-sex marriage, making Spain only the second nation to eliminate all legal distinctions between same-sex and heterosexual unions, according to supporters of the bill.

The measure, passed by a vote of 187 to 147, establishes that couples will have the same rights, including the freedom to marry and to adopt children, regardless of gender.

[b:6d29c3e89e]"Today, Spanish society is responding to a group of people who have been humiliated, whose rights have been ignored, their dignity offended, their identity denied and their freedom restricted," Prime Minister José Luis Rodíguez Zapatero told Parliament.[/b:6d29c3e89e]

Spain is the fourth country to legalize gay marriage, after Canada, Holland and Belgium.

But only Canada's law, which was extended nationwide by Parliament this week, contains language as liberal as Spain's, according to gay marriage advocates.

[b:6d29c3e89e]The Spanish measure simply adds one sentence to existing law: "Marriage will have the same requirements and results when the two people entering into the contract are of the same sex or of different sexes."[/b:6d29c3e89e]

The laws in Holland and Belgium, by contrast, create a separate category of rights for same-sex couples that fall short of full equality on issues like adoption, these advocates say.

"Spain is talking about total equality," said Kursad Kahramanoglu, the secretary general of the International Lesbian and Gay Association. "The only other place in the world where this has actually happened is Canada."

The Canadian House of Commons voted Tuesday on its measure to change the traditional definition of marriage, and once the Senate formally approves it, gay marriage will be legal throughout the land.

Today's vote in Spain had been widely expected, since the bill had already been approved convincingly in a preliminary vote in April.

The bill then went to the Senate, where it was rejected in a non-binding vote, before going back to the lower house for today's final approval.

Although it had no practical effect, the Senate vote indicated the sharp opposition to the bill that has emerged in Spanish society, particularly among religious conservatives.

Some two weeks ago, hundreds of thousands of people marched through downtown Madrid in protest against the bill, saying it was an assault on the institution of marriage.

The mayor of Valladolid, Francisco Javier León de la Riva, has said that he will not carry out the new law, and Catholic leaders have called on government officials to become conscientious objectors and to refuse to participate in any events involving the marriage of homosexual couples.

Shortly after the preliminary vote in April, the archbishop of Barcelona, Cardinal Ricard María Carlés Gordó, , compared government workers opposing the law but agreeing to carry it out to the Nazis at Auschwitz, who "believed that they had to obey the laws of the Nazi government before their own conscience."

Despite the intensity of the opposition, polls show that most Spaniards, between 55 and 65 percent, support gay marriage. Even many of those who oppose the bill passed today say they agree with allowing same-sex couples to marry but feel they should not be able to adopt children.

The law will go into effect immediately after it is published in Parliament's official bulletin, which is expected to occur within a couple of days.[/quote:6d29c3e89e]

HISTORY IS MADE!!!!!!!!!!

Madrid should host the 2012 Olympics, that'll be their reward!!!
This just makes my day a lot happier :woo:! Now I like España even more! Hey I speak spanish, maybe I can go live there! :thumbsup:

How much do I love Spain?

[quote:f860d1b163="www.advocate.com"]August 09, 2005

[b:f860d1b163]Spain's same-sex marriage law applies to foreigners[/b:f860d1b163]

Spain's justice ministry has ruled that the country's same-sex marriage law allows marriage to a foreigner regardless of whether that person's homeland recognizes the partnership, resolving a snag that arose last month.

Lawmakers in June made Spain the world's third country to legalize same-sex marriage, following the Netherlands and Belgium. Canada has since become the fourth.

Days later, however, a court in the northeastern Catalonia region said a Spanish man could not wed his Indian partner because India does not allow same-sex marriage. However, in a ruling published Monday in Spain's Official State Bulletin, the justice ministry rejected that position. [b:f860d1b163]It said it had reached the "conclusion that a marriage between a Spaniard and a foreigner, or between foreigners of the same sex resident in Spain, shall be valid as a result of applying Spanish material law, even if the foreigner's national legislation does not allow or recognize the validity of such marriages."[/b:f860d1b163] (AP)[/quote:f860d1b163]

Spain is great :lol:

Yeahhh Now we can marriage.

The truth is that there are not many pairs that have married.
I am against the marriage of any type, straight or gay, but I recognize that this is a giant passage, not in the legal land...but is good for our visibility and respect

Excuseme for my english :lol: I don´t know if I wrote correctly

Besos y saludos from Spain

Besos y saludas a ti, Ronaldinha, and welcome to the forum! :D

Spain ROCKS!

[quote:93e0907fcd="ronaldinha"]Spain is great :lol:

Yeahhh Now we can marriage.

The truth is that there are not many pairs that have married.
I am against the marriage of any type, straight or gay, but I recognize that this is a giant passage, not in the legal land...but is good for our visibility and respect

Excuseme for my english :lol: I don´t know if I wrote correctly

Besos y saludos from Spain[/quote:93e0907fcd]

I just read the article in AfterEllen about a TV series 'Hospital Central' in Spain including a lesbian couple who marry. Does anyone know how to get information, videos, DVDs from the series?

[quote:b6dbc070a9="Tn Jane"]I just read the article in AfterEllen about a TV series 'Hospital Central' in Spain including a lesbian couple who marry. Does anyone know how to get information, videos, DVDs from the series?[/quote:b6dbc070a9]

Hey Tn Jane,
I copied your post over to our new "Hospital Central" thread, so we can continue the discussion there and hopefully people will have some information for you.
Cheers,
*K*

[b:85b1de8c32]Spanish protest gay marriage [/b:85b1de8c32]
Saturday, June 18, 2005; Posted: 10:21 p.m. EDT (02:21 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/06/18/spain.same.sex.ap/index.html

MADRID, Spain (AP) -- Hundreds of thousands of people led by 20 Roman Catholic bishops and conservative opposition leaders clogged downtown Madrid on Saturday in a demonstration against the Socialist government's bill to legalize gay marriage and permit gay couples to adopt children.

Chanting in favor of the family and children's rights, the demonstration, called by a lay Catholic group, the Spanish Forum for the Family, was held in a festive atmosphere with participants waving colorful balloons and Spanish and regional flags.

A half hour into the demonstration, organizers were claiming 1.5 million people had attended. But media eyewitnesses found the estimate difficult to believe, with most putting the crowd size at some 500,000. No police figure was immediately available.

Madrid's Cardinal Jose Antonio Maria Rouco Varela was among 20 bishops at the head of the rally, along with the opposition Popular Party's leaders, Angel Acebes and Eduardo Zaplana.

Earlier Saturday, Deputy Socialist Prime Minister Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega defended the law and accused protesters of discrimination, saying their actions meant they wanted the rights they enjoyed to be denied to others. The new law "does not oblige anyone to do anything they don't want to do," she said.

Although the protest was backed by Spain's Episcopal Conference and the Popular Party, there appeared to be serious divisions over the issue within both groups. Neither the bishops' conference president, Ricardo Blazquez, nor Popular Party leader Mariano Rajoy were present.

Also noticeable by their absence were the Popular Party's leaders in Madrid -- regional government president Esperanza Aguirre and city mayor Alberto Ruiz Gallardon.

The gay marriage bill is expected to become law in a matter of weeks. It has been passed by the lower chamber of Parliament and will be voted on next week by the Senate.

Opinion polls indicate a majority of Spaniards support the bill.

But demonstrators were angry at what they called the degradation of the institution of marriage and the fact that gay couples may adopt.

"Marriage can only be between man and a woman," said Agustin Cruz, 41. "It's a divine and natural law. Marriage of homosexuals is a lie. You have to call things by their name. The first lie begins when you start calling queers 'gays.' They're queers, it's not an insult, it's the definition of that race of people."

Banners reading "Family=Man+Woman" and "A mother and father for every child" could be seen up and down the demonstration, which was attended by families and individuals of all ages. Handfuls of priests and nuns mixed with lay protesters.

Chants for Socialist Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero to resign resounded continuously.

"This demonstration is the people's response to the government's provocations," said Fr. Jose Ramon Velasco. We're not against homosexuals but allowing them to marry degrades matrimony.

"And they shouldn't have the right to adopt because if those children turn out to be homosexual, who will be to blame, the government?"

Velasco compared the bill to the beginnings of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

"Back then the majority of people also backed Hitler just like the majority back this law," he said. "I'm serious, give it time and it will destroy the moral fiber of Spain and the West."

The Bishops' Conference last week said the gay marriage bill was the biggest challenge to the church and its values in 2,000 years.

It was the first time the church has given such a display of anti-government activism in more than 20 years.

Some 500 buses transported people to the protest from around country while special flights brought people from the Canary Islands and Spain's enclaves in Morocco.

The gay marriage bill is one of several controversial measures introduced by Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero's Socialist government since it ousted the Popular Party from office in elections in March, 2004. Others included withdrawing Spanish troops from Iraq, halting an education bill that would have made religion obligatory in schools and scrapping a national water plan that envisaged hundreds of dams and major water transfer construction projects.

The demonstration forced a complete halt to above-ground traffic in most of central Madrid.

Fookin hell. That makes me sad. I hope there's a counter-protest.

I just hope the bill gets passed - that will be enough counter-protest for me.

And I hope the conservative party doesn't succeed in attaching an amendment - which I think I heard the they were trying to attach - of saying that any official who has a personal problem with gay marriage, doesn't have to perform the ceremony - they can delegate it to another official instead.

I would agree that people shouldn't have to perform gay wedding ceremonies if it conflicts with their religious beliefs (eg if they are very orthodox Catholic or something) - but when it comes to *civil* ceremonies, I don't think officials should be allowed to bow out in that way.

Some of the comments in that article above are really unbelievable. To seriously try and compare the legalisation of gay marriages with the rise of the Nazi party..... Has everyone forgotten that *Hitler* actually had a rather substantial problem with gay people? (To the extent of slaughtering six thousand of them?) That man who was protesting the extension of civil rights to others in his country by comparing it to Nazism should go home and thank God he doesn't have to face what people faced under Nazi Germany. He's insulting the memory of the people who did suffer and did die.

I loved the bit where they said "And they shouldn't have the right to adopt because if those children turn out to be homosexual, who will be to blame, the government?". Yeah, cos we all know children of straight couples always turn out hetero. :bash:

[quote:38de454081="Claudia"]
And I hope the conservative party doesn't succeed in attaching an amendment - which I think I heard the they were trying to attach - of saying that any official who has a personal problem with gay marriage, doesn't have to perform the ceremony - they can delegate it to another official instead.

I would agree that people shouldn't have to perform gay wedding ceremonies if it conflicts with their religious beliefs (eg if they are very orthodox Catholic or something) - but when it comes to *civil* ceremonies, I don't think officials should be allowed to bow out in that way.

[/quote:38de454081]

I was actually about to object to your previous comment and say that people shouldnt be forced to go against their beliefs, but then you mentioned the fact that they are civil ceremonies and I was like :yeahthat:

God, I hate this world sometimes :protest:

Here's the article, from last week, about the conservative amendment:

[quote:42262a57f7="www.advocate.com"]June 15, 2005

[b:42262a57f7]Spain one step closer to legalizing same-sex marriage[/b:42262a57f7]

The Spanish government's same-sex marriage bill cleared another legal hurdle Tuesday with passage by a senate panel. But conservative lawmakers attached an amendment that would let civil officials who object to same-sex marriage refuse to conduct such ceremonies and have another official stand in for them at weddings. The bill now goes to the full senate next week. Passage there is expected, although the conscientious-objector amendment was a surprise and will have to be debated. The lower house of parliament, which approved the bill in April, would then have to OK the senate version. Same-sex marriage is expected to become law in Spain this summer.

In Tuesday's debate in the senate justice committee, lawmakers rejected a motion by the conservative Popular Party that sought to defeat the bill under which Spain's Socialist government would legalize same-sex marriage and let gay couples adopt children and enjoy all other rights now bestowed on heterosexual couples. This would make traditionally Roman Catholic Spain only the third country in Europe to legalize gay marriage, after Belgium and the Netherlands.

But by a vote of 13-11, the Popular Party and a conservative party based in the Catalonia region forced passage of an amendment that says town hall officials who object to marriage equality could refuse to preside over same-sex ceremonies. A mechanism would be created to have someone else automatically stand in and conduct the ceremony. (AP)[/quote:42262a57f7]

I think I read somewhere that the full senate are going to vote this Wednesday (22nd June) on the bill - but I don't know if that's correct. Anyway, presumably we should hear the result of the vote some time this week.

[quote:e56a69dbe8="starshideyourfires"]I loved the bit where they said "And they shouldn't have the right to adopt because if those children turn out to be homosexual, who will be to blame, the government?". Yeah, cos we all know children of straight couples always turn out hetero. :bash:[/quote:e56a69dbe8]

All I can say to the man who said that is - "And you shouldn't have the right to enforce legal discrimination against homosexuals, because if gay children grow up miserable because of your attitudes, and are bullied at school, and hate themselves, and think about suicide, who will be to blame - you?"

[quote:e56a69dbe8="starshideyourfires"]God, I hate this world sometimes :protest:[/quote:e56a69dbe8]

Been there, baby. Been. There.

[quote:d57796064b="Reuters"][b:d57796064b]Spain's Senate rejects gay marriage law[/b:d57796064b]

Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:18 PM BST

MADRID (Reuters) - The upper house of Spain's parliament voted against a government proposal to legalise gay marriage on Wednesday, but the legislation remains likely to be made law despite outcry from Catholics.

The Senate defeated the bill when legislators from a Catalan Christian Democrat party joined the centre-right opposition Popular Party in opposing it.

The bill will return to the lower house of parliament next week, where it is expected to comfortably win final approval.

Hundreds of thousands of Spaniards, including bishops and nuns, took to the streets of Madrid on Saturday in a protest against the legislation, which would give gay couples the same legal rights as heterosexual ones.

Catholic bishops have strongly condemned the proposal as a threat to family values and the fabric of Spanish society.[/quote:d57796064b]

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH to the Senate :evil: :evil: :bash: :bash:

So I guess we'll have to wait till next week to see what finally happens. *bites nails*

Why, why, why are certain people so keen on making other people's lives a misery any way they can? Is it really so hard to let two people who love each other get married?

Another news report, with the same story:

[quote:b50682ddb7="The Scotsman"][b:b50682ddb7]Spanish Senate Rejects Gay Marriage Bill[/b:b50682ddb7]

"PA"

The Spanish Senate voted today to reject the government’s bill to legalise gay marriage.

The conservative opposition Popular Party linked up with conservatives from the region of Catalonia to vote against the bill by 131 votes to 119 in a chamber with a total of 259 seats.

The Socialist government must now return the bill to Congress where it will be able to force through the legislation.

That final vote is expected next week in the last session before the legislature breaks for the summer recess.

Passage is expected, and Spain would thus become the third European country to legalise gay marriage, after Belgium and the Netherlands. Spanish gay couples would also be allowed to adopt children.[/quote:b50682ddb7]