Catholic Church Against Making Gay Death Penalty Illegal

I am not surprised. Hyprocisy is essential for most fundamentalist religious people no matter what religion. I have no doubt that if many Western countries were a theocracy treatment of gay people wouldn't be that much better for gay people than in countries with fundamental Islam.

The only religions which have never actively preached and persecuted against gay people are the non-Abrahamic religions. They were probably worried their past persecution of gay people and other minorities would be brought up.

Imagine how much less homophobia we would have if Abrahamic religions hadn't forced their beliefs on more than half the population with forced conversion and colonialism.

I don't think John Paul ever would have done this.  He may have not supported homosexuality, but he never would have backed countries with these sorts of treatments to any people.  I really did not like the Vatican's choice of Pope. I'm not a Catholic, but like you, I was born into an orthodox Catholic family on my mothers side and Buddhist on my father's side.  So I do follow what's going on with both religions.

Considering the Catholic church moves it's sexual predators around when they're caught but won't protect us is just another example of why I don't follow their doctrine.  

If you're an upside down purple people eater who happens to believe in aliens and you can get the job done, I'm voting for you.  Period.  

The fact that they don't want gay people to marry is hypocritical, the fact that they think gay people in certain countries should die (or shouldn't be protected from being killed anyway) to apparently protect heterosexual marriage is downright evil.

Personally I sometimes find it hard to connect this Church that does/says these sort of things with the local church that has the Irish priest who makes cheesy jokes in the middle of mass and normal if boring sorts of people in it. To me the fact that religion is like this is kinda tragic.

This double-moral attitudes is why I stopped following instutionalized religions.

...selfish, horrible, cruel, evil, narrow-minded, hypocritical, non-human ...

The way they've directed their power —most of the time— is just sick..

..and I believe, far from where the original leaders intended to go.

So sad.

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:: Picture by mArta Bevacqua. Moth Art ::

Right now, gays are a minority only in theory...or in you mind. The Vatican is using the same rationale behind conservatives not wanting to add sexual orientation to the hate crimes act. Once sexual orientation is codified in laws as a category like race or religion, it becomes harder to make the case against expanding other rights to gays.

Ironically, the Vatican is going directly against Jesus's teaching. He was an outlaw because he taught mercy and compassion was more important than following the law. Everyone knows the story of Jesus stopping the death by stoning of a woman accused of prostitution. He did not imply that prostitution wasn't a sin, he just stopped the stoning because it was wrong. So, whether or not the Vatican believes homosexuality is a sin, they should stop the stoning.

Not surprised at all. I would be if some international Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh or Jain religious organization gave tacit support to persecuting gays and lesbians. Sure there is homophobia in these religions but none would support persecution of gay people. I totally agree with rainbow. The least the Vatican and other Christian Churches could do is approve this and get rid of the sodomy and homophobic laws they have imposed on many countries during their imperial conquests, including India, Nepal etc. which have led to people being jailed, blackmailed, harassed  for being gay.  Not do the opposite.  None of these countries had homophobic or sodomy laws before colonialism.

The Vatican is first and foremost a political rather than a religious and spiritual organization. The main aim they have, and they are open about it, is to convert non Christians to Christians and how better to recruit and maintain current numbers is to emphasize their homophobia. Hence the homophobic segment of people is carefully catered to. That is why I believe homophobia is more overtly prevalent in Abrahamic religious organizations than non-Abrahamic ones. Don't get me wrong Christians as a people are more accepting and open minded towards homosexuality at the present moment but mainstream religious organizations still have far to go in this matter.

Another one to add to their list of international atrocities. The Catholic Church must be proud.

 Shame to humanity: Vatican defends 'right and duty' to convert members of other faiths

  Pope Benedict Solves Mystery of Pedophile Priests . . . Sort of

While Benedict is in his Retriever coat, there are a number of other people to whom he needs to apologize: to gays whom he called emotionally immature and homosexuality “objectively disordered;” to the 50 percent of Catholics whose gender disqualifies them for the priesthood; to impoverished mothers who continue to have children they can ill afford because of the his dogmatic stance against family planning and birth control; to the tens of millions of tithing Catholics who live in squalid poverty while he lives in opulence on their nickels.

- The Catholic Church must apologize to the native populations of North and South America for ordering their forced conversion and garrotting hundreds of thousands of natives who resisted.

- encouraging colonialism and the brutalities that accompanied it for native populations. For allowing groups of  Groups of Laps, Nubians, Eskimos, Kalmuks, BellaCoola Indians, Sinhalese, Ethiopians, Somalis to be put into zoos and on display in parades.

- Sex crimes and the Vatican

- "Popes maimed & were maimed, killed & were killed... Without question, these pontiffs constitute the most despicable body of leaders, clerical or lay, in history. They were, frankly, barbarians. Ancient Rome had nothing to rival them in rottenness."

                  – Peter de Rosa - Vicars of Christ   p 48.

 - About the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic Church in Goa, India in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, Voltaire in his 'Fragments of India's History' observed: 'Goa is sadly famous for its Inquistion, which is contrary to humanity as much as to commerce. The Portuguese monks deluded us into believing that the Indian populace was worshipping the Devil, while it is THEY who served him'.

(source: The Dark Side of Christian History - By Helen Ellerbe p. 76 - 92).

-         Holy Terror: The Black Bequest of the Inquisition

-         The Inquisition

-         A History of The Malleus Maleficarum –

-         Throughout the Middle Ages in Europe, the Christian Church was the most militarily powerful organization in that continent. Being the largest landowner and the biggest tax collector provided the Pope with huge amounts of money, which were used to solidify his power by establishing a potent armed force.

-         Tacitly supporting The Crusades, The Inquisition, Anti Semitism, Witch burning, Slavery, destruction of Mayans, Australian aborigines, African and Colonialism

-         Catholic Churches Dogmatic Global Ambitions to destroy World Cultures:  During his 1998 visit to India, for example, Pope John Paul II bluntly stated that the Christianization of Asia is "an absolute priority" for the Catholic Church in the new millennium. He openly likened the Vatican agenda for that region to its conquest of the Americas in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.

-         A Sermon for the Pope

-         Pope says low birth rates in Canada due to 'pervasive effects of secularism'

-         Pope said not to study universe's origin

-         "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."  Pope Boniface VIII 

-         Ratzinger of Hamelin 

-         The Vatican Holocaust -sensational account of the most horrifying religious massacre of the 20th century. Startling revelations of forced conversions, mass murder of non-Catholics, Catholic extermination camps, disclosures of Catholic clergy as commanders of concentration camps; documented with names, dates, places, pictures and eyewitness testimony.

-         Christian Missionary Atrocities around the World

-         Don't preach us, India tells Pope

-         Unprovoked, unwarranted Papal assault on India- I 

-         Pope Pius XII (sometimes called Hitler's Pope) leadership of the Catholic Church during World War II and The Holocaust, remains the subject of continued historical controversy. 

-         Who is supreme - the Pope or the Supreme Court?

Lest one confuse the church’s universal missionary duty of conversion with merely humanitarian goals, Benedict “stressed that the mission cannot be reduced to some kind of humanitarian voluntary service or social work. In other words, for Benedict, humanitarian work is more a means to an end: conversion of peoples to, not just any religion, but Catholicism. (source: Pope Prods Catholics: Time to Evangelize )

-         Pope should not interfere in another country’s affairs

-         Decoding The Pope

Gandhi wrote to an American Missionary who claimed that the Christian way is the best of all: "You assume knowledge of all people which you can do only if you were God. I want you to understand that you are laboring under a double fallacy. That what you think best for you is really so; and that what you regard as the best for you is the best for the whole world. It is an assumption of omniscience and infallibility. I plead a little humility." 

"The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly has made the world evil and ugly."

                                             Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900), German philosopher. 

- Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVII by Thomas Jefferson.

" Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned: yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."

Of course there are good Christians out there are for this sort of thing

Just want to say that I went to Catholic school for fourteen years and we had weekly prayers over the PA system for hate crimes against homosexuals, among other people. Jesus teaches unconditional love, normal Christians get that. I think the Vatican is disconnected with the world, they by no means represent the opinion or beliefs of the people. 

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This is just one more example of why I don't take people who say they are pro-life no matter the situation at their word.  So far I haven't met anyone who is pro-life across the board.  It's about control not life.  The people who are the most rabid about being pro-life are generally ok with war, the death penalty, denying the poor or those with hardships access to quality medical care, against diplomacy, peace, justice, truth, sex education, condoms, putting and end to homelessness.  I could go on. 

I just got through listening to some bs on the news about The Hyde Amendment and denying access to abortion for women even with their own private money in healthcare reform.  I keep hearing the justification that no one should have to fund things they find morally wrong with their taxes only when it comes to abortion.  Well, how about me having to fund state executions, mass killings and the destruction of entire societies with my tax dollars that I find morally reprehensible?  I am so sick of this shit.  If you're pro-life than stand up to the plate and be pro-life across the board.  Stop bullshitting everybody about your commitment to preserving life in all circumstances.  It's such a lie.