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Is Terry Moore going to heterosexualize Karolina Dean (The Runaways)

Possibly the poorest plotted element of The Runaways has been the marriage of Karolina Dean to Xavin.  For those not familiar with the series, Karolina Dean is a lesbian character who is one of a group of crimefighting teens.  Shortly after it is revealed that she is in love with Nico, the series conveniently has her leave planet earth because she is betrothed to Xavin, a Skrull.  Xavin appears in the form of a man but when Karolina reveals she's gay, Xavin shapeshifts into a woman.  Later Karolina and Xavin join back up with the Runaways.  Getting beyond the arranged marriage aspect (which is extremely disturbing and in poor taste in itself), Xavin stays in male form quite a bit (apparently because Xavin needs to be for battle...ummm okay).  In a series called Civil War, Xavin is always in male form. 

Joss Whedon recently cleaned up these problems smartly repairing the damage done.  In issue # 29, it is revealed that when not focused enough to stay in a shape, Xavin's non-shifting gender is female.  Nice save by Whedon who also has Xavin in female form through most of his 6 issues. 

However uh-oh, Terry Moore has taken over and apparently is not interested in Xavin being a woman.  In all his interviews Moore has used "he" to discuss the character.  Sketches by Humberto Ramos, the new illustrator, originally revealed a female Xavin but Ramos has since advised that he has been told Xavin is to be in male form only.  If Xavin is meant to be a male, than Karolina's lesbian identity would be a heterosexual identity.  Now I am fully aware that Moore did Strangers in Paradise but one should remember that Moore, for all the supposed love between the two female characters, rarely showed sexual relations between the two women (while focusing heavily on sexual relationships between men and women).  Even in the final issue of SiP, the two women are shown clothed when in bed (in a position that does not read as overtly sexual) and the issue deals with both women having babies concieved while in romances with men. 

While Whedon was able to clean up The Runaways greatest flaws, it looks like we may be back to stage one with Moore.  It would not be surprising to see a complete heterosexualization of Karolina Dean occur (which is what will happen if Xavin is shown as a man).  Hopefully Mr. Moore will prove me wrong but it's looking bad indeed.  With news of the comic being possibly turned into a movie, could heterosexualization occur. 

Notice in this article the repeated use of he and him by Moore (therefore repudiating Whedon's work in # 29).

 http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=154247

Notice in this article down the page that Ramos replies he has been advised Xavin will be a man (he originally drew Xavin as a woman).  

http://www.humbertoramos.com/blog/?p=103

  

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Submitted by
Ediana (218 posts)
on June 29, 2008 - 12:01am.
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the real miss anthrope's picture

hm.

Submitted by
the real miss a... (28 posts)
on June 29, 2008 - 1:24am.
i sure hope moore doesn't make karolina heterosexual, as sexuality was a big part of her storyline in the original stories.  maybe xavin and karolina will break up if he insists on a permanent male form?   these are brian k. vaughn's characters, and i believe he would speak up if he felt the writing wasn't true to them.
ALibraOfHerOwn's picture

Karolina&Nico.

Submitted by
ALibraOfHerOwn (53 posts)
on June 29, 2008 - 1:29am.
Actually I think, he's gonna do the exact opposite of what you're saying. I think he's turning xavin( who I've never liked) back into a man, because I'm thinking he's going to explore a romance between karolina and nico:)) I always wanted them together, and I know if there's a person who's going to do this, it's terry moore. But I definitely agree about the lack of lesbian sexuality and visibility on Sip. But I'm not too worried about the runaways, I'm hoping he'll get rid of Xavin once and for all, and bring Nico&Karolina together(who are obviously soulmates:)) . And although I adore Joss Whedon(he is like a god for me), I think BKV also intended to make Xavin a man, who only changed his appearance for Karolina, and whatever Joss did with it, it's not gonna help, since the first time Xavin was introduced ,  was a male. And I also though Joss did a bad job with Runaways(not storyline-wise, but there was just too much time between the issues, I mean 6 issues in what, almost 1.5 years:)) I'm thinking Terry Moore will be really good for Runaways, here's hoping:)
Ediana's picture

3Libras, to me Whedon saved

Submitted by
Ediana (218 posts)
on June 29, 2008 - 2:05am.
3Libras, to me Whedon saved it.  Whatever BKV's intentions the Karolina/Xavin storyline needed saving by someone with their head on and that is what Whedon did.  He quickly eliminated the whole Karolina a lesbian has decided upon a man.  Joss did a fantastic job except, as you pointed out, with the constant delays of issues.  I would love to see Nico and Karolina get together as Nico has never said she is not interested in Karolina (instead she was not ready for a romance due to the recent death of her boyfriend).  We will see but Terry Moore is seriously scaring me.  I'll keep my fingers crossed but considering I read SiP for all those year where a supposed lesbian Kachoo spent almost the entire time being with David I wouldn't be shocked.  All those years and we end up with Francine and Kachoo fully clothed when sleeping together and having children from male lovers (ugghhh).  I just don't trust him to do right at this time (and I want to - I'm even supporting Echo - I really want to trust him). 
ALibraOfHerOwn's picture

About Sip:)

Submitted by
ALibraOfHerOwn (53 posts)
on June 29, 2008 - 3:00am.

BTW I don't know if you have seen this, but although he didn't include much sexuality in the issues, we still have this page;

http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=n86152531815942447084gl0.jpg

I know it's not much, Terry called this, one of the missing pages, I seriously wished all of the pages where david&katchoo had sex was missing instead of this one;) But I still think he did great in Sip, and I'm really hoping he's gonna bring nico&karolina together:)) (being a shipper is so hard sometimes, lol)

Pedro Tejeda's picture

Not a Nico and Karolina shipper

Submitted by
Pedro Tejeda (1 post)
on June 30, 2008 - 9:46am.

Maybe it's just me, but I always was more interested in the questions the Xavin and Karolina relationship brought up in regards to sexuality and gender identity than the traditional lesbian relationship like Nico and Karolina would have.

For me, Xavin's decision to alter his/her apperance to fit a different gender identity seemed like something that would have some sort of reprecussion. It was never meant to be a happy solution and there was always uneasiness about it between the characters in Vaughan's run. 

Whedon kind of gave it a bit of a pat ending. He/she figures out that they are more comfortable as a female? Something that look like it would break them apart is resolved in a single moment. Relationships that are "fixed" like that are doom to fail.  I wonder what Xavin thinks about this new change in his/her gender identity? Will Moore actually plot that out and develop it? 

I don't think Karolina is going to walk away from this being "fixed" of her "lesbianess". It looks more likely that Xavin gender identity stuff is going to be settled in some fashion. 

 

 

Ediana's picture

Same Old Same Old To Me

Submitted by
Ediana (218 posts)
on June 30, 2008 - 6:06pm.
Pedro, I understand where you're coming from.  However, to me Xavin/Karolina always seemed like bad manga (not yuri but girl/girl relationship can only exist if we are aware one of the girls is actually a boy who has shifted genders).  Whedon saved it for me.  If they wanted to really push the envelope (and not be gutless) they would have one of the straight characters (male or female) fall in love with Xavin and deal with the shapeshifting repercussions.  Instead they took the easy way and in doing so have continued to play into the "lesbian just needs a man" myth.  I may sound harsh but I started reading The Runaways when it came out.  Before anything ever went down, I thought to myself (by the point it was clear Karolina was a lesbian - when she confides in a killer that she is secretly in love with someone) I seriously hope (1) they don't kill her off or (2) they don't have her fall in love with someone able to change their gender.  It devasted me to see it go down that road and ended up cheapening Karolina's story. 
Atrophia's picture

What about Kashimashi?

Submitted by
Atrophia (3 posts)
on January 1, 2009 - 12:32pm.
The gender-bending in anime/manga, I feel, can be used to good effect, if done well.  I tend to view it as the writer asking serious questions about sexuality and gender, and that can only be a good thing, that at least someone is asking the questions, even if you don't like or agree with the answers they come up with.  Kashimashi, for instance, (obligatory potential mild spoiler warning) is a story where the gender switch happens to a boy who is presented to be more "girly" from the outset anyway; I see it as a young transwoman, who hasn't yet figured out that's what she is, getting the thing she never knew she always wanted, free of guilt or persecution or blame, a sort of trans wish-fulfillment.  The gender change is irreversible, too, which is not common in this genre, where the gag is primarily played for laughs and confusion and embarrassing situations.  Meanwhile, the two potential love interests have to deal with their notion of love and have to figure out if gender is really so important after all--the main character is the same person even in a different body. (Maybe this is more like your idea of Xavin with a straight person?) One seems to be a lesbian, though granted it's presented as because she can't see men at all; so it's not as if it's completely guilt-free, but you also have to take in mind Japanese culture and the fact that they tend to view things a little differently than we do, not that that's necessarily a good excuse.  If that's the only criteria we judge by, then the ending is great, because at least it presents the relationship as valid; it falls flat in other ways.  I appreciate it when a "what-if" scenario is presented that shows the main characters choosing to embrace something they didn't know about themselves at first. Didn't most of us go through a similar process of discovery?  I don't think something should be dismissed just because it's conditional, if the conditions are justified or necessary to the story, because it opens the door for someone closed-minded or sheltered to ask themselves, what would they do in that situation?  
vitodgk's picture

Oh hi.

Submitted by
vitodgk (1 post)
on July 1, 2008 - 4:01am.

I stumbled on this thread using google. and decided to register. =- o.

Anyhow, I think it's important to remember that, as a skrull, changing gender is like changing socks; Xavin isn't male or female, he's skrull. And, although Karolina is a lesbian, she is not in a lesbian relationship. Personally, I'm a Karolina/Xavin fan and I think it would be ridiculous if Moore threw it all away for his run on the title. But if they decided to do away with that relationship, I won't be too crushed.

Also, to the OP: I think the purpose of these stories (SiP, Runaways) is to focus on the relationship between two people, outside of labels of gay/straight/blah/blah. For example, I beleive the only reason Xavin naturally shifted to female form is because he's so into Karolina and her needs, etc on a personal level; it was an involuntary reaction. Also, I know this is a lesbian/bi community, Karolina being a lesbian doesn't define who she is, even though it is very important. Srry I typed an essay.

the real miss anthrope's picture

yes, yes, xavin is genderless!

Submitted by
the real miss a... (28 posts)
on July 2, 2008 - 1:14pm.

we should all recall that xavin first appeared in the form it thought would be 'most pleasing' to karolina.  xavin had done a lot of research and since most humans are heterosexual, assumed that karolina would want a strapping young lad. 

i found it really refreshing that xavin chose a to be a person of color.  kind of a nice surprise that.

i always kind of liked them as a couple because i think xavin is very sweet (who even morphed into a copy nico at one point without so much as a hint of jealousy or malice just to please karolina).  however, i think karolina is still in love with nico (who is kind of a harlot) and maybe they'll eventually have a fiery romance (after nico goes through all of her sexual identity drama).

Ediana's picture

Predictable

Submitted by
Ediana (218 posts)
on July 2, 2008 - 6:58am.
vitodgk, read issue # 29.  Why is it always lesbians that are given the romances that are designed to question gender transformation in love?  Bianca on All My Children is my alltime most annoying. 
ALibraOfHerOwn's picture

First of all...

Submitted by
ALibraOfHerOwn (53 posts)
on July 2, 2008 - 11:42am.

I never thought for one second, that Karolina was in love with Xavin, we all know she married him/her to save the universe or something(I'm sorry it's been a long time since I read that issue I don't remember it exactly:) So I think it was clear that they were not playing "lesbians need a man myth" , because clearly Xavin is not what Karolina wants or needs, and you can see that in the comic, it's really obvious.  She was/is never truly happy with him/her, and I think she's still in love with Nico. Actually I think it was obvious in the issue v2-25 where they had a conversation at the roof( it is the first issue that Whedon did), and Nico was jealous of their relationship too .

To Pedro ; I don't think Nico&Karolina's relationship would be traditional in any sense, I think it would be interesting(since Nico's such a slut lol:)) , seriously though, I think it's something Moore would be interested in, because to me it's somewhat similar to Katchoo/Francine relationship.

I'm just hoping, that they will get rid of Xavin once and for all, because I don't care about the character, I never did and I think it just ruins the chemistry, I think they should stick with the original characters(I don't mind Victor too:)). If only they could bring back Gert, that would be amazing:)


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