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Freewill or Fate?

Freewill or FateThis has become a hot topic in my household. I am writing a paper about whether Oedipus, from Sophocles’ play Oedipus the King, was fated or did he have freewill. I said he had freewill even though his choices were made not knowing the truth. My girlfriend said he was fated because he did not know the truth and truth is a necessity to act with freewill. So I present these questions to you:Do we act on freewill or are we fated to do the things we do? Is freewill based on knowing the truth about a situation? Can a person act with freewill if everything they assume to be the truth is false?

 


pyc2star's picture

Oedipus

this is definately not the norm here on AE, however I believe I'm up to the task. 

i believe that we act with freewill until some truth within ourself is revealed (for instance laius and cordelia's actions once they were told oedipus was going to kill his father and marry his mother....or the actions Oedipus himself took once the oracle revealed his future). at that point every action you take after that just confirms what you have been told.

let me break this down further. if i was to tell you that you would have horrible luck for the next week and you REALLY believed me, everything that occured for that week would be chalked up to what i had said and would re-affirm what you believed to be true.

truth is not needed to act on freewill. i have freewill everyday to go right or left on the street in my car. it is not fate that causes me to go one way or another. you would have to subscribe to the idea that fate itself caused EVERYTHING up until that point. what time i woke up, how long it took me to shower, the traffic conditions, where my job was, ect and THEN on top of it believe that fate caused me to turn one way or another. you would litterally have to subscribe to the idea that fate itself was a living, breathing "thing" that cared one way or another as to every detail of life.

let me know what you think.

me_damnit's picture

I agree with you.

I agree with you.

Everyone has freewill, whether they chose to act with it is up to them.

Life is what you make

code3's picture

My vote is freewill as well.

My vote is freewill as well. I'm too tired to give supporting argument, but I believe in freewill. I will say the idea of fate makes you a victim of circumstance. I think we all make decisions that guide our boat either left or right, backwards or forwards. We are our own worst enemy in life.
cocoslays's picture

FATED

I think we are fated to just live the life that we have. There is know such thing as freewill, because if there were do you honestly think people would be suffering of starvation and be infected with AIDS. Just look at what people who life in Africa have to deal with. Do you honestly think, that they think this is freewill. Who would ask for that? They don't even have a chance at life, they are doomed to fail. The majority of these people will never experience true happiness or live to know that their lives matter. So I say we are fated, fated to be disappointed.
my007's picture

It's not just about Oedipus it's about us

 

I believe this is a general question. If often pops up while talking about God. Do we believe God (let us leave out the question if there is a God for the time being :) is omniscient? If he is, then he knows in advance what we will do. If he knows what we will do, then it is already decided. If that is the case do we really have free will? I think that we have.

If we are not aware that somebody already knows our actions in advance then this doesn’t affect our actions. And in the case of Oedipus – it doesn’t mean he had no free will if he did not have all the information necessary to make an informed decision. We rarely have all the information and we make choices every day. We choose the movie we want to see and the occupation we want to train for and it doesn’t make us any less freewilled if we don’t know that the movie sucks and that in ten years there will be no jobs in that field.

So I believe your question is of a general nature: do we have free will? And my answer is yes, we have. Although every day it feels more like I’m forced into everything. Like now: have to get up and go to work …

Tia's picture

Fate is an illusion.

There is no such thing as fate or predestination. We all have been given free will. We all make our own decisions, for good and for bad.

Remember what Qui Gon Jinn said in Episode 1? "Never forget that your perception defines your reality." Humans are completely centric and subjective beings. For each and every one of us, the universe we exist in circles around ourselves. We are not really capable to be completely objective, no matter how hard we try. There are exactly as many individual realities and individual truths on this planet as there are humans living on this earth. The one and only, indivisible, inevitable Truth, and with it the "hand of fate" some people are so desperately believing in and searching for, is nothing more than an illusion. It's the excuse the faint of heart are using because they're not courageous enough to stand in for the consequences of their own decisions.

You can believe in the whole "self fulfilling prophecy" thingy, if you want to. But it's your own choice to do so. And Cocoslays, of course no one chooses the circumstances he/she is born into. But we are all free to fight and try to make the best out of it. Otherwise we could all just cower in some corner and wait until fate redeems us. Would that help?

me_damnit's picture

Appreciation

I know this question was/is not the norm for AE. I want to thank you all for responding to it.  
The Emperor Has No Clothes's picture

I think denying free will is

I think denying free will is a cop out to avoid responsibility. There are coincidences in life that happen and sometimes I think it's safer to attribute them to predestination than to "shit happens" because that makes life feel more in control and sometimes bad (or good) stuff occurs for no other reason than randomness.
GoldringI's picture

Medical Aspect...

Don't forget that in addition to the metaphysical aspect of free will, there is also the medical aspect. In an article addressing this subject a couple of months or so ago, New Scientist related the tale of a happily married with children middle-aged man who suddenly started collecting child pornography (and, possibly, predating upon his children - see following comment). Now, for whatever reason (I forget and don't have the issue to hand) they did a brain scan of this man and he was found to have a brain tumour. The tumour was removed and his wayward behaviour ceased; however, a few months later he started collecting again, and had another scan and the tumour was found to have returned. Again, he was operated on and again, his aberrant behaviour ceased.

I don't know how useful that story is, but I for one found it oddly (almost off-puttingly) fascinating.


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