I’ll start it off by saying that I am neither well read nor well versed in sikh teachings – anything that I do know comes from questionable websites.  That said, I do believe Sikhism allows room for a homosexual lifestyle. The five vices (including khaam, lust) can be avoided, underlying values (include family living) and overall attainment of enlightenment can be achieved while still being in a same-sex relationship.  To me, the most difficult barrier is getting past the expectations placed upon us by our culture.  Anything that strays from the typical/traditional hetero life is sooo negatively received – and that doesn’t even have to be limited to same-sex relationships – it can simply be wishing to not marry for other reasons, marrying a different religion, race, or even caste, or waiting too long to get married. How does one get past this? 

Would love to read more about the subject if anyone has good resources, preferably a book – doesn’t have to be limited to homosexuality but other contemporary issues as well.   A good site that I’ve stumbled upon where you can posts in the forums and get to know other gay Sikhs is : http://www.sarbat.net/ ,check it out.

 

since I have never studied sikhism in real depth before... I did read through (though not thoroughly enough), the Guru Granth Sahib a couple of years ago and I don't recall having come across anything explicit about the matter...

of course my opinion is kind of worthless since I'm not a sikh but as far as I'm concerned and if you go back to the original religious texts you can always find a way round to exempt homosexuality from the unholly unaturall lecture modern day extremist religious leaders world wide are trying to spread...

it is the act that is condemned generally, but not the nature. Being homosexual is not always the cause of sin but acting on those pulsions is... in catholic school for example you are taught homosexuals can be righteous and pure if they remain caste.. and even you're even taught about homosexuals that even became saints (like Saint Sebastian)...

I have read varoius religious books (Bible, Ramayana, Qran, Talmud, etc..), and I have never ever come across anything resembling to "God will hate you if you're gay", but rather "don't lie with other men" (curiously enough female homosexuality is never even considered).

That might have an interpretation beyoind morality which is the one trying to promote marriage as a way to ensure procreation and therefore the perpetuation of the group. Religious texts are always written down at times of deep social turmoil and economical crisis... in a context that threateans a communities structure and identity.. it has to be understood as a way to typify and write down a series of measures or "laws" (no matter how much i hate that annalogy), to help sort out those particular problems that spring at that precise place and time...

that's why I beleive religious text are obsolete and must not be taken in so strictly and radically. Times change... the world is overpopulated and a few homosexuals are no longer a threat for the survivance or identity of the sikhs or any other community worldwide...

fanatism is the only thing that maintains this views on homosexuality, the books don't..

oh well, I think you can tell I'm an atheist all the way ... ahahahaaa!!!

excuse me for intruding this thread but theology is fascinating and I felt like writing a little something... I too would love to read and learn a little more on the matter..

peace and love for all

XD

I don't know too much on the topic as I'm Hindu. But I guess we have the same struggles for acceptance. Basically the only site I could find was this chat group for lgbt Sikhs. Hope its useful. And the sarbat.net website you mentioned. When i typed in lesbian Sikhs i also came up with a number of articles on a Sikh "leader" and his opinion towards gay marriage in Canada. So not as useful. There were a lot of people from the Sikh community and the Punjabi community such as Channel M Punjabi News, Radio India in Canada  who opposed this guy's views. Plus a lot of Canadian Skih Mps supported gay marriage.

 http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?AFF_TYPE=4&STORY_ID=4136&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=2

So maybe there is hope. I think it really comes down to the society you live in and the views of those around. For eg. Indians living in the US, particularly San Francisco, and UK are typically more open minded than the ones in Indian or Australia. I know i'm generalising but thats what i generally find. But hopefully as time goes by people will be bit more open minded.

I would also recommend this site for general resources on lgbt history in an Indian context. Its a Hindu website but has lot of interesting info and gives you a lot to say if an Indian straight person says to you that homosexuality doesn't exist in India or its been imported from overseas. Trust me it will open your eyes and there are a lot of resources.

 http://www.galva108.org/

 

Really its quite sad that the country that came up with the Kama Sutra can be so prudish in matters of sex.

http://members.aol.com/gendervariant/faith/sikh/index.htm

I'm not really much help. But I have a few more interesting links.

 http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/by+topic/96A591617142464C87256F9E00588844!OpenDocument

And apparently in Amritsar there was a lesbian wedding of two lesbian Sikhs. So if they can still attempt to be themselves under that much oppression it gives hope to the rest of us.

I'm sikh. From Canada. Ontario!

There was a recent show on cdn tv, a sikh show, where such a discussion came up. The two gentlemen who discussed homosexuality in our community were both young men brought up in the west (canada). They tried to make the discussion into a debate but really they didn't care to disagree. They basically had no ill words to say towards the homosexuals in our community. The one who was suppose to play the anti role in the discussion pointed out in our text their is mention of marriage between women & man, perhaps this can be extended to say such a union is only accepted by god if it is between man & woman. This same person also went on to say its not right for a gursikh person to judge another person, who are you, thats god's duty - essentially is what he said... Anyways, i didn't have much to share, but welcome to the site. I've added you as a buddy. :D.

I lived in Brampton too. Live in Toronto now, but I bet that there are a lot of people from our corner of the world on this site.

Although I'm not claiming any authority here by disclosing this, I'm doing my ph.d. in religious studies with focus on Punjab and Sikh Studies. Anyone's interpretation of gurbani is equally valid -- and therein lies freedom.

My own interpretation is rather tongue-in-cheek, but I think it ultimately points to the openness that exists within Sikhism, thanks to variety of ways in which the scripture (Guru Granth Sahib, a.k.a GGS) can be interpreted.

One of the major themes in the GGS focuses on the human's relationship to the divine (Waheguru/Akal Purakh, etc. etc.). A metaphor commonly used to describe this relationship is a marriage between the jiva (the human 'soul') and Waheguru. The human soul is the bride who is in a loving and relationship with God, the groom. Ultimately, this metaphor does come from (patriarchal) cultural views on gender roles, in which the wife is always subordinate to her husband: the Groom (God) is more powerful and freer than the bride (human soul) could ever be. And if the bride cultivates herself in order to be virtuous (as Gaelle explained, to abstain from commiting the 5 vices) and if she constantly remembers the apple of her eye (God, who is the Ultimate Stud), then she will be accepted by her Husband.

The Gurus and the Bhagats have the most beautiful poetry in which the soul-bride pines and longs for her Husband. There are shabads in which she is celebrated because of her commitment to ornamenting herself (you know how we desis get all decked out in bling), but the ornaments are actually virtues: goodness, humility, sweet speech, gratitude for creation. In the following shabad (p. 929, SGGS), Guru Nanak takes on the voice of the bride, and sings of her happiness in being accepted by her Groom:

My shyness and hesitation have died and gone, and I walk with my face unveiled.
The confusion and doubt from my crazy mother-in-law has been removed from over my head.
My Beloved has summoned me with joyful caresses; my mind is filled with the bliss of the Shabad,
Imbued with the Love of my Beloved, I have become Gurmukh, and carefree

(the link to the original: http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3406)

I think it's interesting that many modern-day translations of the GGS censor what's there in the Gurmukhi! The type of union mentioned in gurbani is, metaphorically, a sexual union: the bride desires to be 'accepted' by her husband, and the metaphor of final acceptance is the metaphor of sexual union. Where she's been "rejected", she lies on their conjugal bed, alone, and waits for him to come to her and unite with her.

OK, so here's where I take some liberties in taking the bride-groom metaphor further. So:

human soul = bride
God = groom

Now, there is only one groom, and that is Waheguru, right? Which would mean that as humans, we are all brides. And, as humans, we enter into relations of marriage with each other:

so, when a human soul marries another human soul in the earthly realm, it's like one "bride" marrying another "bride" (regardless of the biological sex of the person).

And voila! You have lesbian marriage.

Loved your post Samsara Interrupted, although I'm sure my parents won't appreciate that logic as much as I did. Kinda random and out of curiousity really, anyone going to the nagar kirtan downtown tomorrow? Oh and thanks to the original poster for the sarbat.net link.

A recent article out of Vancouver about a gay sikh and a new support group that he has formed to help other gay sikhs and their families: http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/Gay_Sikhs_Youre_not_alone.html

 

if u go back some 100yrs mayb more indian history will tell u homosexuality was excepted an ppl wer quite open with it i visited khajarao in MP india u can see 2 women , 2 men making out in so many diff positions and they hav like 100s of sculptures like that many sex temples out ther . lol i think r ancestors wer so much cooler

if u go back some 100yrs mayb more indian history will tell u homosexuality was excepted an ppl wer quite open with it i visited khajarao in MP india u can see 2 women , 2 men making out in so many diff positions and they hav like 100s of sculptures like that many sex temples out ther . lol i think r ancestors wer so much cooler