So you started this thread to get others opinions... and now have decided that no matter what people say you're going to believe what you want... ?

While I must admit I am uncomfortable with the idea of straight males hanging out here, I wouldn't try to stop them if they were going to follow the rules.

As for gay males. I love gay males... I have no more desire than any other lesbian to see them naked, but I totally love them. 

Dear gay males, please post. Hugs to you. 

Rhianna, I can't believe you could possibly suggest that anyone 'remain closeted' considering you should know first hand how horrible it is to be forced to hide your identity.

Not at all.

You say that your opinion is valuable but so is mine. And I'd like to state for the record that if such a poll was to be posted I will be one individual of (I hope) a majority voting that anybody with a respectable opinion be allowed to comment. And of course, this includes men of any sexuality.

I happen to like a variety of opinions and views. Men can help provide that. I don't, however, like hateful and offensive talk - kinda like what the original poster tends to spew.

So, in that regard, who should we really be having a poll against?

If the majority is silent how do you know it supports you?  

Rhianna, the majority actually took the opposite position from you in the other thread (I assume that's why you've started another, cause you lost the argument there.)  

Also maybe people are "prejudiced" against you because you keep posting homophobic comments, racism against people of Arab origin, xenophobia about those of Muslim faith and about gay men in general, and now plain sexism, along with a bunch of extreme right-wing articles.  Plus your way of having an argument is just to ignore what someone writes and insinuate (well, or plainly state) that they really just want to be hetero.  (Can I take a Jerry Seinfeld moment and say, not that there's anything wrong with that?  Sorry, if there's a hetero out there who reads this website, and I doubt that there is.  Don't mean to insult your "lifestyle"...  I keed.  I couldn't resist the opportunity to call it the "heterosexual lifestyle" though.)

I quote Rhianna in that last thread:

"I forgot to mention that incurablygay should include going down on hillary clinton as  one of the sexual services he'll be providing. Straight women don't get that often so i'm sure one of incurablygay's "idols" will be immensely pleased. If you need tips, I'm not sure i'll have time to offer any but you can google it, or some of your friendly lesbian friends here. Or most relevant of all for you, you can ask the lovely ladies on the bisexual thread to help you out. I'm sure they won't mind. After all, you're mostly into the same type of the things, right?" " 

Ohh I forgot to add "crude, disgusting comments about bisexuals" to the long list of offensive shite you have posted.

honestly do you think people are prejudiced against you because of the "defamatory comments" ?!?! I'd say it has more to do with the contents of your posts.

"For most of history, Anonymous was a woman" - Virginia Woolf

Need attention much, Rhianna? Seriously, your posts in various threads reek of prejudice, immaturity and outright hatefulness.

I appreciate any good company, and the few men on here certainly haven't made me half as uncomfortable as you have.

Actually, they have provided valuable opinion on here and have as much right to be here as anyone else. After all, I love Afterelton, too... ;-)

you have every right to want a poll, sure. But stop all the ridiculously rude comments about lovely harmless posters, insulting other gay women and claiming that all men (gay or otherwise) want to do is break up the lesbian faction for divide and rule. And there aren't "a couple of strident lesbians" against you - I think it's about 99% of us who don't agree with you. But of course, you can perfectly well think and believe that gay men shouldn't come on the site, that's no problem if you think so. People have different opinions, that's fine. Just don't be so damn mean about it.

And I'm glad the "silent majority" supports you, because that's how you know they support you, by not saying they support you. The silent majority also apparently supports paedophilia, bestiality and slavery because um, they haven't said anything against it.

oh, and I propose to start the Lesbian Union Against All Men And Kill All Male Babies Born Because They're Male Ewww Omg. Come on, we're all women, don't let the men divide us! Get rid of them before they have the chance!

I realize this thread wasn't intended for me and i have posted way too many comments in one day on afterellen. More than i ever have before. But I really need to get this out there and off my chest.

I just want to know why you hate me. I'm sure you have a logical reason. Send me a personal message and we can talk about it. Thing is noone has ever really  really ever hated me after they've got to know me. I'm not talking about frequent homophobic remarks or attempted bashings because they were by strangers. People who didn't know me as in never had a conversation with me. Your probably thinking, incurablygay..what have you been smoking because, technically, you probably consider yourself a stranger to me as well. That may be true but if we have engaged in conversation on the "gay men" thread so you cannot use the stranger excuse. 

I have no idea what the hell is wrong with me today. I'm unbelievably chatty today moreso than usual. I think its because its holiday time or something and I'm feeling more relaxed than I usually do. 

I'm going to stop before i really start rambling. I'm going to eat some strawberry icecream to cheer me up. It is by far the best thing to eat if your not feeling like yourself. trust me on that one. 

On a more serious note, if you want to say stuff about me ..ok you have the freedom of speech to do so. But I would like it if you didn't stuff about the people who've said nice things about me because that's not just right.

Noway, you don't have my support Rhianna.

I don't mind if men, straight or gay, post here. I would love to know what you would do if you went to a straight website and they said 'no gays allowed to post here'.

This is a ridiculous topic.

i don't know what went down in the other posts. but i am wondering...

what i got from you is that gay guys should not be allowed to post because they are not the intended audiences for a site about lesbians and bisexuals....

but you also mentioned straight women....

so they should be excluded from posting too?

even if they support the lgbt community as just much?

It says on the red bar there, "News, reviews & commentary on lesbian and bisexual women in entertainment and the media"

it doesn't define who can read this site.  the number of people who are interested in the topic naturally shapes who will join and be motivated to post on afterellen.

However, I can actually understand how many would prefer this to be a women-only space.  I don't agree, but I understand.  It is a valid point of view.  Like I said above I think this site's focus on reviews and critiques of queer women in the media naturally only appeals to a certain niche. So far in the YEARS this site has been in operation I haven't gotten the impression there's a man-takeover about to happen, or even a significant readership from either straight or gay guys.  Straight guys have different interests about lesbians on film and it doesn't involve reading critiques.  Gay guys are not scrambling all over each other to post whether they liked Willow/Tara or Xena/Gabrielle better.  Nor are straight women.

I personally would welcome most straight people to read AfterEllen or watch the vlogs, not that I'd want a major influx of straight people as posters (like I said above, it's a very unlikely scenario cause it's just not what straight people are interested in), but definitely as readers because I think it would challenge their many erroneous assumptions about queer women and maybe inform their perspectives about representation of minorities in the media.  I think "never" is about how frequently a middle class straight white guy thinks about inequality in representation on screen, or the number of female or queer or non-white writers, directors, producers etc. working in Hollywood and the influence that has on what and how stories are told. 

why does it matter if gay / straight men or straight women post on this site. what do u think will happen if they do post.....that one day this site will be overrun with gay / straight men and all the articles will be men orientated and the lesbians / bi women will be forced out and lost amongst all the heteros and gay men?

cos yea - i can *totally* see that happening

and wouldnt it be better that men and heterosexual women (its not their fault - they were born that way) are exposed to as much lesbian issues as possible - wouldnt it increase tolerance in this world?

everyone has to coexist - so wouldnt it be better if we all heard what each other had to say - so we can be more aware of the people around us - and what people go through - and how different types of people view each other? so why limit anyone's ability to post in here?

and if anyone should have limits enforced upon them regarding posting - it should be the ignorant, intolerant, unashamedly racist/sexist people, who do nothing but stir hatred and cause trouble - not naming any names *cough cough*

so we should let everyone post - even the idiots - so we know what kinda people we're dealing with - and increase awareness - and maybe learn to be a little more tolerant of those who aren't exactly the same as us? maybe...

(this is a lesbian/bi women orientated site, as supposed to an exclusive lesbian / bi site right?)

~...to cure rarely, to relieve often, but to console, always...~

~ if i'm to be labelled - i want to be known as a lesbianosexual ;) ~

Im sorry im confused what kind of response do you want rhianna?

Do you want people to say yes i hate gay men and men in general?

Because dude your opinion isnt worth a darn thing because its an un-educated, prejudice and really disgusting opinion!

I read all of your posts on the last thread because quite frankly my dear you were quite entertaining! You have been rude and insulting and bullied a person who was expressing an opinion on a site yes aimed at gay women but surely gay women arent that closed minded to not take note of a mans opinion!

I hope the next time someone makes you feel inferior you can maybe relate to them because if you start to feel bullied and segregated you cant feel bad because you have been in the biggots boots!

And just to annoy you as you have annoyed me Gay men or just men in general i love them they are part of mankind and i love having them around and You can say gay women dont need male icons... If you so wish i will draw you up a list of men that have inspired or influenced me :)

Anyway hope maybe you change your warped opinion some day take it easy! x

Okay so, there's not going to be a poll for allowing/disallowing men here.

You know what's so stupid about this entire discussion?  How exactly would AE screen men from posting on the site?  Seriously, I'd like to know how you propose this.  Background checks?  Do you want the moderators to call new users' homes to verify they're not male?  I'd really love to know.

Or is all it takes is removing the 'male' option from the profile page?  Cause, you know, I bet no men would come to/post on the site then!  [rolls her eyes]

My suggestion would be for you to leave AfterEllen if you have a problem with males posting here.  Just as you seem to have a problem with various other denominations and ethnic groups based on your posting history. 

_________

I think this is incredibly ridiculous!

it's kinda ironic that someone who's in a community still discriminated starts discriminating people who are in the same 'ship' (gay males), if they wanna post here, go ahead :D!!!

It's like... if I am banned on a site that talks about straight people.. COME ON!

Jeezz.. REALLY,do you realize you're talking about not letting someone post because of their gender / orientation?? isn't that what we fight against everyday!? UGH. frustrating.

but yeah, have a good day and go ahead with your freaking poll, I'd like to see your reaction if you saw a poll that said 'Do you want to be in the same forum with a lesbian? a) nooo, they are scary and would try to convert us straight people! b) NOOO, they are everywhere and I'm sick of them. c) Yes, but only if they don't post. d) Yeah, I don't mind who's here.' COME ON. Isn't that ridiculous? well, dear, that's what you're trying to do ;)

If this thread is a de facto poll on what you're suggesting, then count my vote against it.

While I always hope that the overwhelming majority of AE's users will always be women of the LGBT community, I welcome every voice to the table. Anything that helps to grow the community and its allies...even if it's just over ogling over beautiful and talented (and, most of the time, very straight) women.

That being said, the suggestions that "if you don't like it, you can just leave" rub me entirely the wrong way--primarily because silencing the voices of dissent is exactly what Rhianna's proposing in the first place (albeit on a bigger level). Let's avoid becoming the bad thing that we're trying to argue against...

-----

Geoffrey: You fool! As if it matters how a man falls down.
Richard: When the fall is all that is left, it matters a great deal.

- The Lion in Winter

"Pro life or Pro abortion/choice: Which belief is more supportive of gay rights? You'll be surprised."-thread. I remember that.

Perhaps it´s your way of presenting your opinions that makes people react so strongly against you, not your opinions. I always felt it was a bad idea to invite others to speak their minds and then, if they don´t share your views, tell them that they are making defamatory comments.

I understand why some women might prefer not to allow men to post, but gay and straight men have been a small but welcome part of our readership since the site was founded in 2002, and as long as they're respectful and adhere to the focus of the site (i.e. they follow the same rules as everyone else) their contribution to the site and the community will continue to be allowed and appreciated. (Ditto straight women.)

and didn't get an opportunity to add my 2 cents and I certainly didn't want to be a part of the so called "silent majority" by not saying anything. I think it's absolutely fecking ridiculous that Rhianna even felt the need to continue this thread. jeez.

Perhaps I'm biased because my very best friend is a gay man (and many of my close friends are too) but even beyond that, it's just crazy (and ignorant) to say that men (gay or otherwise) should not be able to post here simply because this website is geared toward (not exclusively for, btw) lesbian and bisexual woman.  We should be encouraging diversity among one another...not pushing each other away. Don't we get enough of that in the "real world"?

Incurablygay said in one of his previous posts "Coming here and finding people who value deeper qualities and are easier to talk to and less pretentious has been a relief. Personally, i don't think there is much of a anti-gay guy vibe here...All in all, I think like any two groups we can have our misunderstandings, but at the end of the day, we want to be inclusive and understanding of each other. If we can't break any barriers of miscommunication, how can we expect the straight majority to?" Ain't that it? Let's not prove him wrong, ladies (and gents).

Rhianna, you should be especially glad that AE is not exclusive...otherwise I'm sure your narrow minded @ss would have been ousted with the first idiotic comment you posted.

Have a beautiful day everyone!

Ok fine I get the fact that a diverse range of people should be allowed here irrespective of gender and sexual orientation. I still maintain that incurablygay should be banned from this site because he has been disrespectful of my opinion and others who think like me, he has imposed his views on me in an arrogant manner and has continually harassed me throughout his posts. I want nothing to do with him, yet he won't leave me alone and continues to post wherever  I am. He doesn't get that I don't care about him and could he please find someone to give him the attention he so desperately craves. Maybe a therapist. His behavior towards me has been equal to online harassment, and i'm sure if this was real life he would be capable of greater evil. If afterellen wants someone who is clearly a risk to women in the greater community, I guess that's your choice. I'm guessing he stalks women and preys on them in real life, as he does online.

He has also in many instances not adhered to the focus of the site, which would be issues focusing on lesbian and bi women in entertainment. He has continually posted about his experiences as a gay men at inappropriate times and he has been insensitive to the women around him. Since he has clearly violated the rules and my sense of integrity he does not deserve to be here.

If a man (gay or not) is interested in the L word, or Saving Face, or Portia de Rossi, or whatever, and has a pertinent comment, fine.

If anyone is coming here (gay, lesbian, or whatever) and making comments that are not related or are attacking, that's not fine.

For instance, I think I remember a man posting about how Saving Face was racist against asian men. Personally, I don't think that had much of a place on a lesbian website, even if it may be true. But if a guy wants to come and say hey, I love TiBette, or something, come on in!

And I would probably feel like they shouldn't be doing blogs on our site. But comments? Or reading? As long as they are friendly, glad to have them.

This whole thread loses.

The internet is the internet because anyone can go anywhere and say whatever they want.

This whole issue is so ridiculous. Why shouldn't there be men on here?

Ugh.

incurablygay, I think you're just swell. I think swell people should not only be allowed to, but even encouraged to post here. While having been silent until now on this issue, I just wanted to make clear that I wasn't part of this supposed "silent majority" of Rhianna's.

Rhianna, I'm kind of lost as to where you've left your sense of reason at this point... It would have been one thing to keep to your point about how men on this website made you feel uncomfortable (while I don't see why they should, if you feel uncomfortable then you feel uncomfortable and I obviously can't argue that point). But now you're just resorting to bashing incurablygay whenever he says anything? He started a thread (a very nice, thought-provoking one, I might add) about the importance of friendship, and you go over and tell him the following?

"I look for women who share my hobbies and interests. Mostly out lesbian women or bisexuals. I really don't think friendships with males, especially gay ones, can have the same quality and intimacy. I don't know what it is about gay males. I think its their innate belief that they rule the world and are the centre of everyone's universe. They think their the best at everything, when they're clearly not. I can't have a friendship with those sort of arrogant, self centered and patronizing people. And I'm sure many people here wouldn't want to share that sort of friendship with a gay male either."

I mean... The LBGT community as a whole has been fighting to stop people from lumping us all into one big stereotype, so while I'm sure that SOME gay males are arrogant, self-centered, and patronizing (as are some straight people, some bisexuals, and some lesbians), this seems to me a generalization that is just as cruel and untrue as the one the homophobes make about all the rest of us.