Hi, I'm from Turkey, and I'm born muslim too, but I'm not practising either, I don't even believe in religions,(not just islam but also christianity etc.) I guess I can call myself a Deist, If I have to label my personal belief system:)
Right here! I'm not practising either. I'm born Muslim. I stick with this identity because I do believe in Islam. I have issues with some teachings of the Quran(obviously) but I don't want to give up the rest of my beliefs.
Here too! Am from Singapore. Born a muslim, proud to be one, practice most of the stuffs except the easiest (praying.. i just don't know why im that lazy). and im still proud to be gay. :) oh and did i mentioned that im not a strict-muslim? as in, not as close minded.. (and if I was, I don't think I can be gay and proud eh?)
yup im a muslim too, had to create an account just to ask - what do you mean by 'not practising'???
I still consider myself a practising muslim. I dont know about the rest of you, but i think Islam is just a way of life, sometimes its hard to seperate religon and life. Like i dont eat pork/ham etc. and i still say my prayers if im asked to (at a funeral, or with my family) i fast sometimes as well, and even though i dont wear the hijab, i still follow some form of pardah (like i dont wear shorts...) BUT im also gay (and is that really haram/forbidden?) i drink alcohol occasionally, and I cant rember the last time i prayed...
Being gay and being Muslim is not such a problem for me, i think its more of a cultural thing. Like Zahra im originally from Pakistan, but i live in Canada now. If i was a 100% sure that i am gay, i would definetly come out to my family. Maybe im in denial right now, but i feel like im bi :S yeah im kinda confused at the moment. But yeah its more of a cultural problem for me, i know it would be hard for my family to handle since its such a taboo subject in pakistani society.
Im out to 3 friends so far, and as i figure things out i think i will definetly tell the rest of my friends and some cousins too...
are any of you out to your family? and since you realized you were gay,was it then that you stopped practicing islam? because i think all major religons forbid homosexuality (not talking about different fractions).
I realised I'm gay when I was 18. And I had slacked in prayers way before that. I do want to become regular with praying and fasting and reading the Quran. When I do, it has a very calming effect over me. I don't think I can leave Islam just because I'm gay.
As for how Islam forbids homosexuality, honestly, I haven't figured out how to deal with that yet. That's where I have issues. But for the time being I don't let these thoughts come into my head. I've shut them out. I guess I'm trying to create a balance between my muslim and lesbian identity.
yeah.. i slacked in prayers since.. ermm forever. but fasting's not a problem for me. and i agree with the calming effect. :) and leaving Islam just because im gay has never crossed my mind. until now. :p but no, no.
totally agree with ur last paragraph.. eventho i know its forbidden but its just who you are.. and Islam is also who you are.
Zahra - I guess I'm somewhat like you... I realised I'm gay about 3years ago and had only just recently acknowledged it. Talk about slow developers eh... Abt homosexuality, don't take my word for it but there is a school of thot that quotes the example of the city of Sodom. "Do not lust after the same sex else suffer like the people of Sodom". The argument is the usage of the word LUST. Gay relationships (or any relationships for tt matter) are based on love. Well,,, erm for some...
Kemri - I'm in Singapore too... If you haven't watched Step Up 2 -> don't waste your money. Just wait for downloads! hee...
Sarah - You Lucky biach! Wanna swap places? Have fun in Canada for the rest of us unfortunate ones. I'm out to some friends (the gay friendly ones) but not to my family. I'm not sure abt islam and me... I havent really figured it out... Oh and I'm sure everybody else drinks too!
I don't drink either. I'm a social smoker though, and I'll have some sheesha now and then. As for drinking, its kind of taboo in Pakistan. Infact, if I'm not wrong, it's illegal. I can't say whether I'll abstain from it if things are the other way 'round. I do wish to have some self control.
Somewhere in my peanut brained imaginary world, I had envisioned everyone drinking. Or had at least tried but rejected coz bourbon coke is god-awful. Until strawberry-margaritas were served... *slurp
But seriously Zahra, you didn't miss out much AND by not drinking you avoid catastrophic embarassment and a night of waking up beside a stranger not knowing what you did or didn't do.
Kemri -> You don't drink? I applaud that! Wanna hit up for coffee, tea or... scrabble?
But seriously Zahra, you didn't miss out much AND by not
drinking you avoid catastrophic embarassment and a night of waking up
beside a stranger not knowing what you did or didn't do.
Those are 2 good reasons I feel greatful for not drinking, and hopefully avoiding in the future as well.
It might be illegal to drink, but that doesnt stop anyone! Im in karachi right now and just went out with my friends to a party on friday, theres alcohol and hash everywhere :P Not that i drank (cant get drunk and blurt out im gay. hehehe)
Well, first of all I'm not out to my parents, but I'm out to all my friends and they all have a good friendship with my gf of 4 years:) The reason I'm not out to my parents is, because they never really cared about anything I did, so I don't think they deserve to know who I really am and I also think they already know:) I didn't stop practising Islam because I was gay, I mean I always knew that I was gay but I finally admit it to myself when I was 16. And I always had a personal belief system that had nothing to do with Islam back then. I don't believe in any of the religions, I guess I believe in A God, but it's my god that I pray to and I don't have to live by some rules that was written in 6th century:)Since my father is an atheist and my mother is a not practising muslim(she identifies herself as muslim but she doesn't follow the rules either:), I guess I could say I was raised in a free environment and since Turkey is a secular country there's no law against drinking or homosexuality, but of course we don't have the same rights heterosexuals have(blah), but then it is the situation with most of the countries these days:) And here the drinking age is not 21 it's 18, but I started drinking long before that(and I know it wasn't healthy but I was drinking maybe once in two weeks), I drank almost everyday when I was 19-20 because I wasn't out to anyone and I had a huge crush on one of my friends(who is heterosexual AND homophobic) at the time so I was really depressed, I wasn't an alcoholic, I was drinking maybe 1 or 2 beers but since I met my gf 4 years ago I only drink at special occasions, because I figured out I never liked alcohol anyway:) It's so refreshing to talk to you all:) So nice to meet each and every one of you:)
p.s. Encloset I adore strawberry margaritas:)) I still have a very special relationship with them:) My gf gets jealous when I drink one, because she says my whole face lights up:))
Support comes from unexpected places/people. Sounds like you've found your circle of support and a gf of 4yrs to boot. I'm insanely envious but delighted to hear.
I've met plenty of gays whose "family" consists of a close knit of friends only.
Hmm... Alternative lifestyle. Alternative family. What do you think?
Someone once told me that all God-believers are Muslims regardless of what they do or do not practise. He quoted the 'shahadah'.
"'ašhadu 'al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu"
or "I testify that there is no god except God".
As the most important pillar, this testament is the foundation of Islam and you've just said it in your own way. Creepy, eh. Awesome, eh.
Turkey sounds like fun. (translation,"Anywhere is better than Singapore"). I'm in Singapore now and it is Capital B-oring. Do not pass here. Go straight to Sydney for the mardi gras. I'll hitch up with you then!
I can't recall if the drinking age here is 16 or 18 or 21. I'm that old!
Zahra --> I just re-read my earlier post. Seemed like I might have insinuated that in my drunken stupor, I slept someone with someone. Just to set the record straight, it wasn't me but an incident I heard abt a friend of a friend's... Oh and do tell us more abt gay life in pakistan for you.
Encloset, don't worry, I didn't think that's what you were insinuating. :D
I've been to Singapore once. Back when I was in 9th grade and hadn't yet realised I was gay. It was a memorable trip. I enjoyed alot.
Gay life in Pakistan is kinda non-existent. Or still taboo. There are hidden gay circles in cities like Lahore and Karachi. But since I'm far from both these cities, I'm not acquainted with any of them. I'm not even acquainted with any gay person.
So it's nice to be talking to all of you over here. :)
Sure, I'll add you on MSN. But since I live on campus, internet isn't exactly the best. So tell me what time you'll be online and we can coordinate. Talk to you later then!
Recently my DSL had its pms. I cdn't reply earlier! But perhaps it was merely echoing my own state of frenziness. Last week was a roller coaster. So much pressure fell on me (does this remind you of a song)...
I felt stifled. I spppose Not being out tends to do that to you. But the stifling feeling has escalated since and Now, its affecting me. I wanted to Out myself to everyone I meet regardless of the consequence...
But the coward that I am, I've packed my bags and will be heading to Melbourne for a bit of gay release.
Seriously tho, my head spinnin and I'm thinking - I gotta move out of here... Was looking around and saw an extremely active 'Salaam' group in Toronto, Canada.
I empathize with you. And I think so do most people inside the closet. I feel like bursting and just telling everyone. "I'm gay, so get over it".
Sadly, it's not so simple. I think I'll never be able to tell my parents. I love them so much and I feel like this will be the ultimate disappointment. Just the thought of that kills me. :(
I might tell my friends at some point though. Maybe even my brothers. But I think there is still some time till that happens.
I do get on by being openly pro-gay whenever such conversations come up. I think I'm unconciously trying to tell people, "Get a hint already!!". Ah, well...
P.S- I'll try catching you on MSN over the weekend, when I'll finally have some free time!!
Sorry everyone, I've been really busy with my exams for the last 2 weeks I didn't get a chance to reply:) first of all encloset thank you so much for the song:) I love dolly parton and that song is awesome:) Btw really sorry to hear that you have so much pressure on you, I hope things will get really better for you really soon, actually I still have a lot of pressure on me too, but I think I just don't care anymore, I'm still not out to my parents and I don't think I will be having that talk anytime soon:) But being out to close friends is definitely liberating and it's like a snowball at least that is how I experienced it, once I told a friend of mine that I was gay and I saw the world was not gonna end, and she was really excepting and understanding, I just started to tell all of my friends, but I still have lot of fear inside of me, I realized that today and it kinda made me sad, I was reading alison bechdel's fun home in the bus, and when I got to a page that was picturing alison and her gf naked, I suddenly felt really tense and I started to look behind me to see if anyone was looking at what I'm reading and that kinda stuff, and I'm really disappointed in myself because of it. I usually think that I'm brave about things like this, but I just realized I still have a lot to learn about how to be out and proud:) I just wanna say again that it's a great pleasure to talk with all of you, and encloset I'd like to add you to my messenger too, if you wouldn't mind:)
hey guys. wow so many replies! the last time i checked there wasnt any! (ok so i admit that was few weeks back)
"I do get on by being openly pro-gay whenever such conversations come up. I think I'm unconciously trying to tell people, "Get a hint already!!".
hey im doing that too! i guess now im a bit more.. i dont rly care if anyone knows but that does not mean i want to shout out loud that i am, bcos.. i dont see the need to.
Encloset> Sure that must be the most important pillar but there are 4 others too. :p Pillars are pillars. I think they are equally important. I don't think anyone could do the rest if they don't believe in the first but that does not mean that it is the most important. it just came up first. IMHO..
Coffee? Sure.. not anytime soon though..
and its always good to go away for a while! Why Melbourne?
I just came back from a trip myself and i actually visited a lesbian bar. no i did not drink, i ordered Perrier. :p i just wanted to try. it was a really small one though. and i mean really small. it was my first time going into one. i wish i didnt do it on my last day so i could come back. lol. oh well.. next time i guess.
I just came back from Melbourne and yes I did go to their gay joints. But sadly I was on me own and I just stood there gawking and awkward! pfft!
3Libras -> How's your papers? You like Dolly too? Here, I thot I was the only one....!!! Hey, Is Dolly a lesbian icon? U know, if she holds a concert here, I'll be there first to sign up!
"...and when I got to a page that was picturing alison and her gf naked, I suddenly felt really tense..."
haha. I completely get where you're coming from!
I was watching QAF on my portable player once and when ppl asked what was I watching, I'd simply say Doc Martin. Because no one really watches that 'cept for me.
Lo and behold this one instance when my colleague had peered in further to see more clearer. "oooh Is this the 3rd season?".
I immediately jumped out of my chair and took the opportunity to talk to her about that 'upcoming project'. But of course, we needed to confer in the conference room away from my table.
*sighs* the things I do to remain closetted!
Kemri -> You're right abt the pillars... pardonnez-moi. Thank you for sharing. i know Melbourne is not exactly bursting with gay pride but hey, anywhere is better than Sg! It also helps that I have a cousin there so accomodation is free.
What abt you? Where did you go?
Oh, and do add me on msn. It'll be nice to chat up with fellow sistahs!
Hi, i don't mean to interrupt, but I was wondering how some of you, as members of a queer community who may live in a semi-homophobic environment, pick up on other queer people? I live in the US, faaaaar from friendly, but I usually feel like I can pick up on visual cues from other women to tell who's gay or not..
My gaydar's pretty shit, but I mean, for example, I have short hair, don't wear makeup, and have hairy legs. Usually in boys pants and a flannel shirt. If I saw someone else who fit that description, I would feel pretty safe in assuming she's queer. But I feel like if I dressed this way in Iran or Pakistan it wouldn't be ladies that I was attracting! So what other cues, visual or otherwise, would I look for if I saw someone cute?
<a href="http://www.wiredberries.com/organic_living/default.asp">That's my shit.</a>
I echo most of these passages. I was born in the States in a fairly liberal Muslim family. My parents tried their hardest to raise us with Muslim beliefs and for the most part it worked. I struggled with my sexual orientation from the age of 4. Lol I was the kid who always made the two female barbie dolls kiss each other. I showed signs to my family at a young age of my sexuality and they did their best to try and stifle it. For the past two years I've really been struggling with my religion. It's frustrating and scary but I do feel myself drifting away from Islam. Not only in my sexual orientation but in my behavior and lifestyle. The sad thing is I don't have anything to replace this void. I try and tell myself I still believe in God, and I convince myself sometimes that organized mass religion is a fallacy and that it should be a relationship between you and God. For the most part I'm still lost.
For those of you who have denounced Islam, what's your replacement? For the most part do you still believe in God? Do you still identify with Muslim people? What about your Muslim friends you grew up with.. are you out to them or closeted? Do you think your sexual orientation is the main reason why you left Islam?
And for those who still consider themselves Muslim how do you balance your sexual orientation with your religious beliefs?
You posed a lot of difficult questions, I guess I'll start by saying I am an agnostic. I used to be really religious, I come from a conservative muslim family. Do I have a replacement for religion? Not exactly, just the realization that all my strength and power never came from faith, or God, but myself. If you feel lost, I understand that, I felt that way for years trying to reconcile that which my rational mind knew was truth vs what religion taught. No, the gay issue was not the only thing that pushed me away from Islam, there were so many other reasons, the strongest though was probably the fact that my reason came second to faith, which to me--is the greatest evil. I identify with muslims in the sense that they share my name, sometimes my history, but not in their ideologies. I happen to have amazing 'muslim' friends who like me, question faith; btw: generally they make awesome friends because they share the same struggles and are incredibly supportive. You mentioned how you feel frustrated and scared, and that there's a void; thats understandable, and I reitterate that this is a common feeling for not just those who leave islam, but any religion, or philosophy that has been indoctrinated into them from childhood. A child who had been taught to worship Sponge Bob may have a hard time letting go of his/her faith even if the world collectively laughed at them for such a ridiculous belief. Leaving islam for me was difficult; I loved the sense of community, the answers for life after death, the tradition; but the silent voice in my head that cringed everytime I forced/brainwashed myself to accept dogma that I knew was just wrong eventually prevailed, and now, although I have no answers for what comes after-death (I use Socrates as my guide: Why fear the unknown) I embrace the truth that deep down none of us really KNOW; we can believe, have faith, or guess, but no one really KNOWS what comes after this life, or if aythig does come after. All one can do is live life to the fullest, treat all ppl with respect, compassion and love, and be overall proud of everything one does. So one day if I do approach God, I can hold my head high and say "Thankyou for this life, I lived, and loved, and am proud!"
I'm from Singapore as well and am a Muslim. I do drink...i dont eat pork and i dont pray. But i do fast. hehe. So well i've not been a very religious person but i have never thought of getting out of Islam. So yea... And i'm bi. I didnt come out to my parents cause it will be crazy too considering they're quite religious. I wasnt much of a gay kid *i think* and i have 2 brothers so playing with cars and wrestling with my brothers was kind of a norm and my parents didnt think i was gay or anything cause of that. So i dont think they suspect anything. I still belive in God for sure but just certain things i kinda got lazy to do it like praying five times a day...
It's hard finding a balance with both of these clashing identities. I haven't figured out how. I'll say this much, I don't want to give up one for the sake of the other. These are my definitions.
i am a convert to islam before i converted i was an out and proud lesbian,i have been a muslim for over a year now i tryed to get married but it just never happend,now im propa batteling with my sexuality i havent been with anyone for over a year now i just dont know what to do
Not muslim myself, but am acquainted with many who are. Just out of curiosity, I was wondering which "type" of Islam many of you practice or were raised in. Shiite, Suni, Bahai? Sorry if I misspelled. I have a good friend who is Bahai and is quite liberal. He was run out of Iran when the Sheik went on a killing spree. I hope that isn't a sensitive topic for any of you. Anyways, he is a dear friend to my partner and I and seems very accepting of most faiths, "lifestyles", etc. Is this an option for some of you?
Personally, I grew up in a christian faith, but have found reason and logic to be the basis for my belief system. I guess I consider myself Gnostic (greek for knowledge) as opposed to agnostic (without knowledge). I try to understand many belief systems and try to find an overlaping themes. The most prominant one I have found is "do good". Anyways, I find much of what many of you say to be quite interesting and a bit troubling. I am sorry to hear that many of you have had such a hard time either dealing with your faith, family or community. I wish the best for all of you.
Hi from Turkey!
Hi, I'm from Turkey, and I'm born muslim too, but I'm not practising either, I don't even believe in religions,(not just islam but also christianity etc.) I guess I can call myself a Deist, If I have to label my personal belief system:)
Pakistan
Here here!
yup im a muslim too, had to
yup im a muslim too, had to create an account just to ask - what do you mean by 'not practising'???
I still consider myself a practising muslim. I dont know about the rest of you, but i think Islam is just a way of life, sometimes its hard to seperate religon and life. Like i dont eat pork/ham etc. and i still say my prayers if im asked to (at a funeral, or with my family) i fast sometimes as well, and even though i dont wear the hijab, i still follow some form of pardah (like i dont wear shorts...) BUT im also gay (and is that really haram/forbidden?) i drink alcohol occasionally, and I cant rember the last time i prayed...
Being gay and being Muslim is not such a problem for me, i think its more of a cultural thing. Like Zahra im originally from Pakistan, but i live in Canada now. If i was a 100% sure that i am gay, i would definetly come out to my family. Maybe im in denial right now, but i feel like im bi :S yeah im kinda confused at the moment. But yeah its more of a cultural problem for me, i know it would be hard for my family to handle since its such a taboo subject in pakistani society.
Im out to 3 friends so far, and as i figure things out i think i will definetly tell the rest of my friends and some cousins too...
are any of you out to your family? and since you realized you were gay,was it then that you stopped practicing islam? because i think all major religons forbid homosexuality (not talking about different fractions).
Praying
I realised I'm gay when I was 18. And I had slacked in prayers way before that. I do want to become regular with praying and fasting and reading the Quran. When I do, it has a very calming effect over me. I don't think I can leave Islam just because I'm gay.
As for how Islam forbids homosexuality, honestly, I haven't figured out how to deal with that yet. That's where I have issues. But for the time being I don't let these thoughts come into my head. I've shut them out. I guess I'm trying to create a balance between my muslim and lesbian identity.
yeah.. i slacked in prayers
yeah.. i slacked in prayers since.. ermm forever. but fasting's not a problem for me. and i agree with the calming effect. :) and leaving Islam just because im gay has never crossed my mind. until now. :p but no, no.
totally agree with ur last paragraph.. eventho i know its forbidden but its just who you are.. and Islam is also who you are.
Hello Fellow Sistahs!
Zahra - I guess I'm somewhat like you... I realised I'm gay about 3years ago and had only just recently acknowledged it. Talk about slow developers eh... Abt homosexuality, don't take my word for it but there is a school of thot that quotes the example of the city of Sodom. "Do not lust after the same sex else suffer like the people of Sodom". The argument is the usage of the word LUST. Gay relationships (or any relationships for tt matter) are based on love. Well,,, erm for some...
Kemri - I'm in Singapore too... If you haven't watched Step Up 2 -> don't waste your money. Just wait for downloads! hee...
Sarah - You Lucky biach! Wanna swap places? Have fun in Canada for the rest of us unfortunate ones. I'm out to some friends (the gay friendly ones) but not to my family. I'm not sure abt islam and me... I havent really figured it out... Oh and I'm sure everybody else drinks too!
Ogy >> Step Up2 ? no
Ogy >> Step Up2 ? no worries.. i hadnt even thought of watching it either! it must be really bad for you to say that then..
and no, not everybody else drinks. my friends dont. i dont too. i might seem kinda strict dont i? :p i guess yes.. in certain aspects.
I don't drink either. I'm a
???
it's illegal to drink?! thats blows my mind!
~*~Alice: Thank god you're here we're totally outnumbered. Bette: What do you mean? Alice: Straight people. Bette: Oh, Jesus.~*~
Alcohol is illegal in quite
Ooops, my bad!
okay, I give... Not everyone drinks.
Somewhere in my peanut brained imaginary world, I had envisioned everyone drinking. Or had at least tried but rejected coz bourbon coke is god-awful. Until strawberry-margaritas were served... *slurp
But seriously Zahra, you didn't miss out much AND by not drinking you avoid catastrophic embarassment and a night of waking up beside a stranger not knowing what you did or didn't do.
Kemri -> You don't drink? I applaud that! Wanna hit up for coffee, tea or... scrabble?
Encloset wrote: But
Those are 2 good reasons I feel greatful for not drinking, and hopefully avoiding in the future as well.
It might be illegal to
It might be illegal to drink, but that doesnt stop anyone! Im in karachi right now and just went out with my friends to a party on friday, theres alcohol and hash everywhere :P Not that i drank (cant get drunk and blurt out im gay. hehehe)
zahra which city are you in?
So...
Well, first of all I'm not out to my parents, but I'm out to all my friends and they all have a good friendship with my gf of 4 years:) The reason I'm not out to my parents is, because they never really cared about anything I did, so I don't think they deserve to know who I really am and I also think they already know:) I didn't stop practising Islam because I was gay, I mean I always knew that I was gay but I finally admit it to myself when I was 16. And I always had a personal belief system that had nothing to do with Islam back then. I don't believe in any of the religions, I guess I believe in A God, but it's my god that I pray to and I don't have to live by some rules that was written in 6th century:)Since my father is an atheist and my mother is a not practising muslim(she identifies herself as muslim but she doesn't follow the rules either:), I guess I could say I was raised in a free environment and since Turkey is a secular country there's no law against drinking or homosexuality, but of course we don't have the same rights heterosexuals have(blah), but then it is the situation with most of the countries these days:) And here the drinking age is not 21 it's 18, but I started drinking long before that(and I know it wasn't healthy but I was drinking maybe once in two weeks), I drank almost everyday when I was 19-20 because I wasn't out to anyone and I had a huge crush on one of my friends(who is heterosexual AND homophobic) at the time so I was really depressed, I wasn't an alcoholic, I was drinking maybe 1 or 2 beers but since I met my gf 4 years ago I only drink at special occasions, because I figured out I never liked alcohol anyway:) It's so refreshing to talk to you all:) So nice to meet each and every one of you:)
p.s. Encloset I adore strawberry margaritas:)) I still have a very special relationship with them:) My gf gets jealous when I drink one, because she says my whole face lights up:))
O, Strawberry - Thee succulent fruit
Dear 3Libra,
Firstly, I *hug* you.
Support comes from unexpected places/people. Sounds like you've found your circle of support and a gf of 4yrs to boot. I'm insanely envious but delighted to hear.
I've met plenty of gays whose "family" consists of a close knit of friends only.
Hmm... Alternative lifestyle. Alternative family. What do you think?
Someone once told me that all God-believers are Muslims regardless of what they do or do not practise. He quoted the 'shahadah'.
As the most important pillar, this testament is the foundation of Islam and you've just said it in your own way.
Creepy, eh. Awesome, eh.Turkey sounds like fun. (translation,"Anywhere is better than Singapore"). I'm in Singapore now and it is Capital B-oring. Do not pass here. Go straight to Sydney for the mardi gras. I'll hitch up with you then!
I can't recall if the drinking age here is 16 or 18 or 21. I'm that old!
Zahra --> I just re-read my earlier post. Seemed like I might have insinuated that in my drunken stupor, I slept someone with someone. Just to set the record straight, it wasn't me but an incident I heard abt a friend of a friend's... Oh and do tell us more abt gay life in pakistan for you.
PS 3Libra: Maybe you can sing this song to your girlfriend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXbIfwvihSA
=(
Out and proud, except to my family!
Sexy-Persian
xoxoGlaad to hear That!
Pray do tell more...
Haha...
Encloset, don't worry, I didn't think that's what you were insinuating. :D
I've been to Singapore once. Back when I was in 9th grade and hadn't yet realised I was gay. It was a memorable trip. I enjoyed alot.
Gay life in Pakistan is kinda non-existent. Or still taboo. There are hidden gay circles in cities like Lahore and Karachi. But since I'm far from both these cities, I'm not acquainted with any of them. I'm not even acquainted with any gay person.
So it's nice to be talking to all of you over here. :)
You were in Sg?
Oooh to think we were That close...
:-)
not even acquainted with any gay person? gosh,,, that's tough...
Likewise, am glad to be 'talking' back.
Do u msn? Add me. encloset//hotmail.com
Sure, I'll add you on MSN.
MSN
I'm online most times. Just nudge me,,,
:)
Disconnection
Recently my DSL had its pms. I cdn't reply earlier! But perhaps it was merely echoing my own state of frenziness. Last week was a roller coaster. So much pressure fell on me (does this remind you of a song)...
I felt stifled. I spppose Not being out tends to do that to you. But the stifling feeling has escalated since and Now, its affecting me. I wanted to Out myself to everyone I meet regardless of the consequence...
But the coward that I am, I've packed my bags and will be heading to Melbourne for a bit of gay release.
Seriously tho, my head spinnin and I'm thinking - I gotta move out of here... Was looking around and saw an extremely active 'Salaam' group in Toronto, Canada.
Looks inviting...
I empathize with you. And I
I empathize with you. And I think so do most people inside the closet. I feel like bursting and just telling everyone. "I'm gay, so get over it".
Sadly, it's not so simple. I think I'll never be able to tell my parents. I love them so much and I feel like this will be the ultimate disappointment. Just the thought of that kills me. :(
I might tell my friends at some point though. Maybe even my brothers. But I think there is still some time till that happens.
I do get on by being openly pro-gay whenever such conversations come up. I think I'm unconciously trying to tell people, "Get a hint already!!". Ah, well...
P.S- I'll try catching you on MSN over the weekend, when I'll finally have some free time!!
tell my family?
I never even considered it. I'm a coward like that.
Sorry I didn't catch ya last weekend. Was out most times...
Hi again:)
Sorry everyone, I've been really busy with my exams for the last 2 weeks I didn't get a chance to reply:) first of all encloset thank you so much for the song:) I love dolly parton and that song is awesome:) Btw really sorry to hear that you have so much pressure on you, I hope things will get really better for you really soon, actually I still have a lot of pressure on me too, but I think I just don't care anymore, I'm still not out to my parents and I don't think I will be having that talk anytime soon:) But being out to close friends is definitely liberating and it's like a snowball at least that is how I experienced it, once I told a friend of mine that I was gay and I saw the world was not gonna end, and she was really excepting and understanding, I just started to tell all of my friends, but I still have lot of fear inside of me, I realized that today and it kinda made me sad, I was reading alison bechdel's fun home in the bus, and when I got to a page that was picturing alison and her gf naked, I suddenly felt really tense and I started to look behind me to see if anyone was looking at what I'm reading and that kinda stuff, and I'm really disappointed in myself because of it. I usually think that I'm brave about things like this, but I just realized I still have a lot to learn about how to be out and proud:) I just wanna say again that it's a great pleasure to talk with all of you, and encloset I'd like to add you to my messenger too, if you wouldn't mind:)
hey guys. wow so many
hey guys. wow so many replies! the last time i checked there wasnt any! (ok so i admit that was few weeks back)
"I do get on by being openly pro-gay whenever such conversations come up. I think I'm unconciously trying to tell people, "Get a hint already!!".
hey im doing that too! i guess now im a bit more.. i dont rly care if anyone knows but that does not mean i want to shout out loud that i am, bcos.. i dont see the need to.
Encloset> Sure that must be the most important pillar but there are 4 others too. :p Pillars are pillars. I think they are equally important. I don't think anyone could do the rest if they don't believe in the first but that does not mean that it is the most important. it just came up first. IMHO..
Coffee? Sure.. not anytime soon though..
and its always good to go away for a while! Why Melbourne?
I just came back from a trip myself and i actually visited a lesbian bar. no i did not drink, i ordered Perrier. :p i just wanted to try. it was a really small one though. and i mean really small. it was my first time going into one. i wish i didnt do it on my last day so i could come back. lol. oh well.. next time i guess.
guess who's back?
Hi all , how's everyone doing eh?
I just came back from Melbourne and yes I did go to their gay joints. But sadly I was on me own and I just stood there gawking and awkward! pfft!
3Libras -> How's your papers? You like Dolly too? Here, I thot I was the only one....!!! Hey, Is Dolly a lesbian icon? U know, if she holds a concert here, I'll be there first to sign up!
"...and when I got to a page that was picturing alison and her gf naked, I suddenly felt really tense..."
haha. I completely get where you're coming from!
I was watching QAF on my portable player once and when ppl asked what was I watching, I'd simply say Doc Martin. Because no one really watches that 'cept for me.
Lo and behold this one instance when my colleague had peered in further to see more clearer. "oooh Is this the 3rd season?".
I immediately jumped out of my chair and took the opportunity to talk to her about that 'upcoming project'. But of course, we needed to confer in the conference room away from my table.
*sighs* the things I do to remain closetted!
Kemri -> You're right abt the pillars... pardonnez-moi. Thank you for sharing. i know Melbourne is not exactly bursting with gay pride but hey, anywhere is better than Sg! It also helps that I have a cousin there so accomodation is free.
What abt you? Where did you go?
Oh, and do add me on msn. It'll be nice to chat up with fellow sistahs!
Hello...
Hi, i don't mean to interrupt, but I was wondering how some of you, as members of a queer community who may live in a semi-homophobic environment, pick up on other queer people? I live in the US, faaaaar from friendly, but I usually feel like I can pick up on visual cues from other women to tell who's gay or not..
My gaydar's pretty shit, but I mean, for example, I have short hair, don't wear makeup, and have hairy legs. Usually in boys pants and a flannel shirt. If I saw someone else who fit that description, I would feel pretty safe in assuming she's queer. But I feel like if I dressed this way in Iran or Pakistan it wouldn't be ladies that I was attracting! So what other cues, visual or otherwise, would I look for if I saw someone cute?
<a href="http://www.wiredberries.com/organic_living/default.asp">That's my shit.</a>
Yikes
I echo most of these passages. I was born in the States in a fairly liberal Muslim family. My parents tried their hardest to raise us with Muslim beliefs and for the most part it worked. I struggled with my sexual orientation from the age of 4. Lol I was the kid who always made the two female barbie dolls kiss each other. I showed signs to my family at a young age of my sexuality and they did their best to try and stifle it. For the past two years I've really been struggling with my religion. It's frustrating and scary but I do feel myself drifting away from Islam. Not only in my sexual orientation but in my behavior and lifestyle. The sad thing is I don't have anything to replace this void. I try and tell myself I still believe in God, and I convince myself sometimes that organized mass religion is a fallacy and that it should be a relationship between you and God. For the most part I'm still lost.
For those of you who have denounced Islam, what's your replacement? For the most part do you still believe in God? Do you still identify with Muslim people? What about your Muslim friends you grew up with.. are you out to them or closeted? Do you think your sexual orientation is the main reason why you left Islam?
And for those who still consider themselves Muslim how do you balance your sexual orientation with your religious beliefs?
Sorry so many questions lol.
=D
An attempt at an answer
You posed a lot of difficult questions, I guess I'll start by saying I am an agnostic. I used to be really religious, I come from a conservative muslim family. Do I have a replacement for religion? Not exactly, just the realization that all my strength and power never came from faith, or God, but myself. If you feel lost, I understand that, I felt that way for years trying to reconcile that which my rational mind knew was truth vs what religion taught. No, the gay issue was not the only thing that pushed me away from Islam, there were so many other reasons, the strongest though was probably the fact that my reason came second to faith, which to me--is the greatest evil. I identify with muslims in the sense that they share my name, sometimes my history, but not in their ideologies. I happen to have amazing 'muslim' friends who like me, question faith; btw: generally they make awesome friends because they share the same struggles and are incredibly supportive. You mentioned how you feel frustrated and scared, and that there's a void; thats understandable, and I reitterate that this is a common feeling for not just those who leave islam, but any religion, or philosophy that has been indoctrinated into them from childhood. A child who had been taught to worship Sponge Bob may have a hard time letting go of his/her faith even if the world collectively laughed at them for such a ridiculous belief. Leaving islam for me was difficult; I loved the sense of community, the answers for life after death, the tradition; but the silent voice in my head that cringed everytime I forced/brainwashed myself to accept dogma that I knew was just wrong eventually prevailed, and now, although I have no answers for what comes after-death (I use Socrates as my guide: Why fear the unknown) I embrace the truth that deep down none of us really KNOW; we can believe, have faith, or guess, but no one really KNOWS what comes after this life, or if aythig does come after. All one can do is live life to the fullest, treat all ppl with respect, compassion and love, and be overall proud of everything one does. So one day if I do approach God, I can hold my head high and say "Thankyou for this life, I lived, and loved, and am proud!"
I'm from Singapore as well
Hm.
converted muslim
Question...Types of Islam...
Not muslim myself, but am acquainted with many who are. Just out of curiosity, I was wondering which "type" of Islam many of you practice or were raised in. Shiite, Suni, Bahai? Sorry if I misspelled. I have a good friend who is Bahai and is quite liberal. He was run out of Iran when the Sheik went on a killing spree. I hope that isn't a sensitive topic for any of you. Anyways, he is a dear friend to my partner and I and seems very accepting of most faiths, "lifestyles", etc. Is this an option for some of you?
Personally, I grew up in a christian faith, but have found reason and logic to be the basis for my belief system. I guess I consider myself Gnostic (greek for knowledge) as opposed to agnostic (without knowledge). I try to understand many belief systems and try to find an overlaping themes. The most prominant one I have found is "do good". Anyways, I find much of what many of you say to be quite interesting and a bit troubling. I am sorry to hear that many of you have had such a hard time either dealing with your faith, family or community. I wish the best for all of you.
I'd rather not...
I'd rather not Muslims be divided into sects like Sunnis, Shias, Wahabis, e.t.c. We just end up hating each other for no good reason.
But if I really do have to put myself in a box, I'm a Wahabi.