Member composition- Increased number of straights on afterellen

It's one thing to let them read what we have here, and quite another to let them participate.  What makes this site special to all of us who participate in it is the fact that it is insular.  A large part of what makes us feel safe and comfortable expressing ourselves is that we don't have to worry about what the rest of the world thinks about it.   There is absolutely no pressure and no stigma.  I think the simplest solution would be to eliminate the option of male from the gender box when people are signing up, so that all you're left with is female or trans and genderqueer.  I know how important exposure is to increasing traffic to the site and increasing revenue, and limiting the site to women, trans, and genderqueer members would not reduce it significantly.  Traffic levels would remain high as always, and the additional revenue they bring in will help fund the expansion of the site.  Win-win.

As for the other proposed options, I don't think AE has the staff or the time to monitor its membership that closely.  Even with the number of writers they have now, and with three full-time moderators, running this site is still essentially a twenty-four hour job as it is now.  They can't add probationary periods or anything else that requires careful watching if they don't have the qualified staff to handle the increased workload.  I have asked one of the staff members to consider creating a survey so that we could let them know what they should keep doing and what they should consider changing, both about the site's functionality and content.  Detailed demographic information would also be an important and intersesting inclusion.  I have been told that they are considering the idea.

I've done some browsing of AfterElton, and I think that there are a few good reasons why gay and bi men would be spending time here rather than there.  This site and its forums were here first; they are long-established and offer a larger variety of things to talk about, things that are not specific to lesbian, bisexual, and transgender women.  AfterElton is a great site, and one that men would certainly benefit from getting to know better.  But it's forums are still in infancy, and that can be frustrating.  It's just more comfortable to spend time on a site that is already established.  However, I think that nothing on AfterElton will improve without the participation of its target community.  AfterEllen was built by its staff, but its membership has been just as critical in maintaining and growing the site since its inception.  We often provide the topics for articles, and the staff has come to rely on us for tips because while they cannot be everywhere at once, collectively, we are, and they need us.  AfterElton can have the same thing, but it needs its men to help that happen.

There is also the factor that bisexual men could be here looking for bisexual women to date, and vice versa.  If we eliminate men from the site, that would be a loss, but there are other places they could meet.  This isn't really a dating site, and that should not be anyone's main purpose in being here. 

Straight men come here for the same reason that we are here: we both are attracted to women, though at times we want vastly different things from them in our relationships.  But the similarities really end there, and as I stated earlier, this is not a dating site and it should not be cheapened by becoming a source for advice on picking up women.  There are different issues at stake when men look for women than when women look for women.  Our rejections come at a much higher cost; not only are we personally rejected, but sometimes so is our sexual orientation.  This is why we can and need to give advice to each other on that subject.  And it is one of the many things about us that men will never fully understand.

"Brains grow love."--H. H. the Dalai Lama

http://www.myspace.com/ysubassoon

I’m one of the people who doesn’t like having straight men post here, but I definitely don’t like the idea of anyone – AE staff or members – determining who can join.  Seems too rigid, restrictive, and subjective to me. 

I’d much prefer to let things sort themselves:  if annoying straight men start making obnoxious comments, I have enough faith in this community and the mods that we can respond and speak up for ourselves (and AE always reserves the right to ban the truly offensive).   I’ll bet that more times than not, annoying straight guys will eventually get bored and leave when they realize this site isn’t about them, and that these articles/blogs weren’t written with them in mind.   Most of them came for the Top100 list.  Other than that, there’s not much for them here: no nudity, no sex talk.  There’s barely even any cursing (for fuck’s sake).

Of course, the best way to ensure they leave quickly is to probably just ignore them.  JMO. 

I agree with your thoughts Zee, but i believe many  members here feel intimidated by the presence of straight people, both male and female. If there is one place that heteros should not be able to parade their hetero privelege, or shove their ideas down our throats, its in AE. I don't understand why this site has to accept straight people as members. They're free to look and browse around, but what do they gain from joining and being part of a predominantly lesbian and bi site. There are plently of sites around that cater for straight males and females, and there is no reason why they should infiltrate this site. It's a site by lesbian and bi women for lesbian and bi women for a reason. And this reason wasn't so that we could have straight males and females trying to force their opinions on us. If you let in a couple of straights, be they male or female, your inviting an entire group to post. Which would, in my opinion, just ruin the community atmosphere we have at AE.

Okay, I realise this is the Issue du Jour here, but straight wo/men have been coming to AE since its inception (my experience goes back over three years) and they are still in the very, VERRRRY tiny minority. I saw one straight guy, 17 years old, register this week. I hardly think he will counteract the 50,000+ current AE members and if he does then he is a very talented individual.

The rest of the quotes and comments from straight people that appeared in AE's blog are likely fly-by-night responses to an interesting article, just as we all clicked on Maxim's Hot 100 list when AE featured it but probably haven't been back since. I do not see all of these people joining the forum or even bothering to comment on the article - the vast majority are linking to AE (which is good business!) and commenting on their own blogs/spaces.

And you know what? If the one or two active male members of AE start to push their Heterosexual Agenda on us and/or act like asshats, there are existing rules to deal with that. I see no reason to exclude anyone who would contribute valid opinions to the community; we have had more trouble from lesbian and bi women who came here to flame, spam and cause trouble than we have TOTAL contributing male members (I can think of only 3-4 actively-writing men).

It is a matter of playing nice and respecting people in general, not pigeonholing them based on sexuality. One man in a group of 50,000+ doesn't make me feel unsafe or like the minority here. I also don't hate men enough that I will refuse to talk to all men on principle, no matter where I am (AE forum, the supermarket, etc).

True happiness, we are told, consists in getting out of one's self, but the point is not only to get out, you must stay out; and to stay out you must have some absorbing errand. -Henry James

of banning straight people, male or female. It's just another form of discrimination. I think the best way is to report abuse, and have it dealt with through official channels.

My main concern is that I've had a couple of men trying to 'pick me up' through the PM system. I ignored them and simply deleted their messages. However, with hindsight I should have reported them because although I'm old enough to know what they're doing, there are still some young and inexperienced women using AE that might not work out their game.  

"Give a girl the right shoes, and she can conquer the world." Bette Midler.

I had this really long articulate post but it got eaten when I tried to post it.  Maybe AE is censoring me? :)

 My point in my missing post was that I think it is problematic and isolating to police people based on their sexuality. I think as long as they respect the rules of the forum, their veiwpoint is welcomed.  As someone else mentioned, there are plenty of lesbians on here that I disagree with, and their viewpoint shouldn't be privileged simply because they are lesbians. 

And anyway, what "counts" as being a lesbian?  If you previously had relationships with women, and now are married to a man, would you be gay enough to participate in these forums?  I think it is too complicated to classify people in the first place; it would be a slippery slope to start making sure people are "gay enough" to be here.

I get that people want that "safe space", but this is a message board, and we are always going to encounter people who have different viewpoints than us.  As long as they are respectful, I say this forum should be open to all.

As always, this is only my $.02.

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and anybody who dislikes the presence of straight women on the AE-site and boards.

May I humbly provide my comments to "Ritas words in italic" to this thread as I feel personally addressed.  

“It's bad enough having straight people commenting on our community and treating us as some sort of exotic species in real life” 

In none of my 134 posts until now have I ever commented on your community and treated you as some sort exotic species in real life.

“as members of afterellen we need to come up with ideas on how to combat the increase in membership of straight people on this site”  

I have been a reader of AE for quite a long time and officially sigend up 16 weeks 5 days ago, according to my profile, and have been welcomed by many members. I dare say, that I have even made some really good friends here. I really do not wish to be combated. 

“But with the sudden increase in straight people here, I'm afraid this site in time will lose authenticity and diminish in value to its lesbian and bi members” 

I must salute you for scanning all the member profiles to come to this conclusion. However, I allow myself to be a bit perplexed that a member with 5 posts in only 3 hours 33 min after joining may fear the loss of authenticity and diminish in value to its lesbian and bi members by the presence of straight women like myself.  

The only reason why I have never declared myself as a straight woman in my profile was that my favoured answer was not stated as an option. However, I have always made it very clear that I am straight and so far I have not received any negative comments, in fact I am delighted to say, on the contrary.

On the internet...everywhere you go...there's someone who is either bored enough or angry enough to find people to pester.

 And yeah, I've actually seen more straight women doing the trolling. I'd say the best thing is to not respond...but human nature...

That and it seems a lot of people can't tell that a person is trolling when that person is a woman. It's kinda weird actually. 'Cause I wanna say something like "hello, straight woman just signed up 5 minutes ago to leave a negative comment. here's your sign!" But then I just feel like I'm targeting them because they're straight....which makes me as bad as them.

 And it doesn't matter if there's only a few of them....it only takes a few to be very loud and repetitive.

Oh, and it is something that has to be decided post by post. You can't just mark everyone that identifies as straight as a troll until they do something that constitutes trolling.

I wish this thread would go away. In fact, I'm sticking with TLWP and ignoring this bit. 

"Give a girl the right shoes, and she can conquer the world." Bette Midler.

I just wanted to let you all know officially that straight readers (male and female) will always be welcome at AfterEllen.com as long as they follow the guidelines of the community -- just like everyone else. AfterEllen.com will always be about lesbians and bisexual women and our perspectives, and anybody who comes to this site will quickly realize that. That will never change.

FYI, approximately 3% of registered AfterEllen.com members (out of about 37,500 people) identify as straight, and please keep in mind the majority of that 3% is female.

That said, if any of you are receiving harassing or sexually inappropriate emails from anyone -- male or female -- please do report them to a moderator or a staff member, and we will take care of it. Those kinds of behaviors are never welcome here.

Now let's get back to enjoying the Hot List -- and all of our other great content! :) -- and please refrain from making anti-straight (dare I say heterophobic) comments.

Thanks,
Malinda Lo
Managing Editor

What happens when a bozo enters your community? You ignore them.   So rather than responding to any provocations maybe we should just ignore them.  I can't imagine any insensitive straight folks wanting to be here for long, maybe they'll go away on their own accord.  If they're being abusive they get booted anyway right?

I have been known to be naive though.

I go to sleep and this is what happens? World War Three breaks out...

Look, I just want to say that some of us might have reservations about straight members, male or female, joining a lesbian community. I have already made my opinions on this clear in other threads and I'm not going to re-iterate. I'm just going to say -

HEARER If you even THINK of leaving me for ONE BLOODY SECOND I will come over there and personally PREVENT you from doing so, which would defeat the point as I would be there!

And yes, I'm sticking to the position of SLOT.

As long as someone is polite, respectful and friendly, what does it matter which side of bread is buttered?

Also - are we trying to start a 'on-line' riot? Next you'll have people accusing people of not being straight. Seriously, folks, let's just move on. Go Lesbians! Go Ugly Betty! Go.... um... Pneumonia!

I wrote what I wrote only because I understand why so many of us were upset, though sometimes that anger manifests itself in a bitter, blind lashing out.  I never write in anger.  I never give my reaction; I wait until I have calmed down and choose my words carefully.  My only goal in writing what I did in that thread was to acknowledge the reasons that the LBT users were upset, possible reasons why any men, gay, straight or bi might choose to join AfterEllen, and I also wanted to find away to keep the integrity of the site while pleasing as many people as possible.  I do understand that while my remarks were not the ones most heavily quoted in this thread, they were the first.  And as such, they contributed to much of the negative controversy that followed.  Since I never want to find myself at the root of any discriminatory comments, I will acknowledge my part in this and retract everything.  I am sorry, and I hope my apology is accepted by anyone who was hurt by this argument, and I sincerely hope that all who were welcome here before will feel welcome again soon.

"Brains grow love."--H. H. the Dalai Lama (The meaning of this quote applies here, I think.  What His Holiness means is that if we approach each other thoughtfully, approach all humanity thoughtfully, we will find reasons to love each other as much as we love the most important people in our lives.  If we only judge others by our instantaneous reaction to them, we are more likely than not to have a negative view of their character.  But if we think critically about one another, if we take the time to analyze one another's thoughts and actions, usually we will find that we are all about as good and as bad as each other; we have the same bad days and the same good ones, and we can get our brains and our hearts to work together to get past all the things that are keeping us away from each other.  The Dalai Lama made this statement when introducing a program of his design to teach compassion in schools.  He believes children can learn this; how do we feel about our chances as adults?)

http://www.myspace.com/ysubassoon

and I think that we are all aware of that. You have stated your position without lashing out at "straight people" and the need to "combat" them over three posts.

Therefore, at least from my perspective as a "straight people" / "straight woman", there is no need to retract your statement nor need for an apology.

Y - darling, you actually calm down first and then write? That's so impressive. I don't. I just make a whole lot of apologies later!

Like this one - I apologise if I got a bit cranky there - hope you didn't retract anything because of something I said. I'm highly medicated right now and not really following the board all that great.

You make valid points, Y, and I always love reading what you've written, you are highly articulate. See you in the caves, right?

I am now very confused by the remarks concerning straightbashing and heterofobic.

I have been going over the posts concerning the subject and I do not see anything even close to as nasty as the things that have been said about Rosie o'Donnell, Anne Heche or Gillian Anderson ( to name a few of the subjects of discussions I myself was in)!

Most of the comments (regarding straights) have been it seems to me pretty civilly voiced real concerns people have. So, unless the mere fact of stating one is against the presence of straights is "straightbashing", I really do not understand what exactly falls under the heading "straightbashing"or "heterofobia"?

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"