If you’re a fan of the lesbian web series The Slope and F to 7th, you don’t need me to tell you Ingrid Jungermann is one funny gay lady. Showtime must think so too, because they’re adapting F to 7th for television. So it’s safe to say we’ll be seeing a lot more of Ingrid soon, but why wait? After a successful showing at Tribeca, her new film, Women Who Kill, is hitting the LGBT film festival circuit.
Ingrid wrote, directed and starred in the dark comedy Women Who Kill, a film about ex-girlfriends Morgan and Jean who work together on a true crime podcast. Ingrid plays paranoid Morgan, who eventually becomes suspicious that her new girlfriend, Simone, might be a murderer.
We recently got to chat with Ingrid and discussed why she’s interested in a “different” kind of queer cinema, her developing thoughts on relationships, why she’s excited for LGBT audiences to watch the film and more.
via Getty
AfterEllen.com: How motivated were you to write a script with queer women at its center that wasn’t about them being queer, per se? I have to say, it’s a good sign for the future of lesbian cinema that we can watch a movie about exes who work together on a podcast about female murderers.
Ingrid Jungermann: That’s very important to me because I feel like we’re in a time when we can focus more on story rather than identity and work in identity and sexuality into story. I make stuff that I feel like I would want to watch and I feel like my job as a filmmaker is to entertain an audience. So I just focus on story. Everything that I do, I’m always interested just in writing for women. I have very little interest in writing for men. It’s just kind of a natural process for me to write for women. And it just so happens that most of the women in this movie are also queer. So I think it’s a way to not only entertain an LGBTQ audience that might be a little bit past watching a film where it’s just about coming out or the focus is about identity. I also think it’s a way to reach a little bit of a wider audience and invite people who aren’t LGBTQ into a story first and then have them realize that by the end they’ve forgotten that the story is any different from their own. For me, empathy and inclusion is kind of more what I’m drawn to.
AE: Is it a purposeful act, though, or does it just come as second nature to you to include these queer women as characters?
IJ: I think it’s both. I’m definitely aware of it because all queer people, unfortunately, have to be aware of their identity everywhere they go. But it is second nature for me. That’s where my interest lies, it’s what my world is, and I want to write about the world I know because I’m tired of seeing TV and films where I’m not reflected in the characters. And I think audiences feel the same way, and not only LGBTQ audiences. I think audiences, they want to see something new and different. And back to what I said, I want to start seeing more diversity. And it’s happening. Definitely in TV. I think film’s a little bit behind. But it’s still the idea that there’s only room for one or two. You know, you can have the one gay show, you can have the one trans show, you can have the one black show, and that’s it. That’s a little frustrating for me because I don’t think audiences are as simpleminded as the industry assumes.
AE: Speaking of different, the whole idea of a podcast about female murderers. Not to sound weird, but is that something that personally interests you?
IJ: I grew up watching many movies. Lots of horror films. Also, some really bad 1980s TV true crime. That was definitely part of my childhood. My mother watched Without a Trace probably 20 times. I’m inspired by that sort of true crime novel and true crime TV. So that’s kind of found its way in. The characters started out as grad students, which was quite boring. And then it involved into them being writers, which was also boring. I think once I listened to Serial that’s where it connected for me that they needed to do something like that because it was a lot more active.
AE: So onto them: Morgan and Jean are both so, unique let’s call it, that you can’t help but think they belong together. What are your thoughts on that?
IJ: I can only speak for my personal experience, which is I don’t know if any two people really belong together. I think there’s good matches and bad matches. But what I’m really interested in now is the deconstruction of what a relationship is. I think that we all are, honestly, programmed from a very early age about gender, about sexuality, and about what a relationship looks like on any side of it. And it bothers me that the idea of a fairy tale is kind of our first experience with relationships as a young person. I think that can be really detrimental to relationships. So this movie is me questioning commitment and questioning marriage and also questioning that sort of falling in love idea.
AE: Would you say that these are two people who have to remain in each other’s lives, though, even if only as friends?
IJ: Yeah, I would say that. Absolutely. And I’m learning more about that too, as far as like repairing past relationships. It becomes more like family. I mean, I’m best friends with my ex. I live with my ex—that’s where we broke up and that was definitely inspiration for this movie. And she and I have gone through a lot of different kinds of relationships and now we’re at this kind of very close friend level and it’s almost family. It feels really good to have worked through so much to be able to be where we are now.
AE: That’s what I’m going to tell people about my ex.
IJ: Of course it’s the stereotype of lesbians, but I think it happens kind of across the board. It’s a choice. Do you want to continue this relationship and see where it leads, or do you want to just never speak to the person again? I don’t really like the idea of having someone in your life who has changed it so drastically and then never speaking to them again.
AE: Moving on to the other character of particular interest in this film, Simone just screams “mystery.” Do you think the same thing that attracts Morgan to her work with female murderers also attracts her to Simone, this despite knowing better?
IJ: Definitely. I think Morgan is drawn to darkness and I think she’s a self-sabotager. So I think once she sees something that could be dangerous, it’s kind of exciting to her. Simone sort of represents all the things that she’s not getting in her relationship with Jean. So she just approaches that and kind of falls into it really quickly. And it’s easy to fall in love with Simone, who represents mystery and, like I said, danger and fear and risk and that kind of falling in love chemistry thing that we all seem to experience as kind of a drug.
AE: But by the time Morgan moves in with Simone, she’s already suspicious of her. Why would she, especially given her line of work, still U-Haul under these circumstances?
IJ: I think it’s that self-sabotage quality, which I sometimes find in myself, where you see red flags in relationships but you ignore them because you’re so sucked into this idea of romance. And I think a lot of us get sucked into that and we turn a blind eye to what we know is going to be a problem later. So it’s kind of more about the metaphor of seeing problems in a relationship early on but ignoring them because you feel good, because you feel high. And that whole idea of the fairy tale—that we still buy that bullshit and we’ll do anything to have it.
AE: Whether it’s Jean or Simone, it seems when women get vulnerable with Morgan she looks for a reason to bail. Is that an entirely fair statement? And if you think it is, why is she like that?
IJ: That’s kind of the whole heart of the movie-is vulnerability. You know, as soon as Simone shows vulnerability or wants to move forward in the relationship, it’s exactly when Morgan starts seeing red flags. Before that she’s all in, and after that things start going downhill. I think that’s one thing I struggle with, is vulnerability and fear that someone is going to break my heart. The older we get and the more often that happens, I think we start to live our lives a little bit safer, which I find sad. When you get older, you also get a little smarter, but you also get a little bit less willing to take chances. I don’t want to live a life where I’m not risking. But I also don’t want to live a life where I’m not making responsible decisions.
AE: Do you consider this an LGBT film? Certainly dark comedy is not something we see often in lesbian cinema. What inspired that?
IJ: Years ago I wouldn’t call myself a lesbian filmmaker. I look back and think that’s quite silly. I’m a lesbian filmmaker for sure. I’m proud of that. It’s an LGBT film too. The only thing is it’s many things. It’s not just that one thing. The only reason I would say it’s not just that is because I want to invite as many people as possible to watch the film.
As far as dark comedy, all my work I’ve ever made I think, all the shorts I’ve made—the web series I think is a little bit more straight comedy. No pun intended. But I’m always drawn to darkness. I find that when I can take an honest look at darkness within myself and within other people, the way for me to move through it and kind of grow from it is to bring comedy into it. It’s just a way for me to sort of heal and process. And I think it’s fun. I’m always aware of the audience. I’m always thinking about how their experience is going to be. Part of the way I communicate with people or am able to connect with people is through my work and I think that’s why I feel such a responsibility to entertain.
AE: What are you expecting now that you’re hitting the LGBT film festival circuit?
IJ: I’m excited because my first short films that I ever made, they premiered at gay festivals. And it’s just quite special, especially Frameline at the Castro—you can’t really beat that. And I love Frameline, I love Outfest. It feels like my family coming to see my work, which is different. Those are the people I grew up with as far as finding out who I was. So it’s special for me to share that with an LGBT audience for sure.
AE: What was it like to debut at Tribeca? Both as a matter of personal pride, but also seeing people take it in. What’s the Tribeca experience like?
IJ: It was incredible. Every night was a packed house and people were excited and I think, based on what they said, inspired. And I love New York so deeply. That’s also who I am. It was diverse audiences: it was LGBT, it was locals, it was people I’ve never met before. The audiences, on top of being in New York, on top of the support that I got from Tribeca Film Festival was kind of—honestly, it was just a dream.
AE: So what’s next for you?
IJ: I got a Showtime development deal. I handed in the script and we’re in development and we’re sort of trying to figure out what the next steps are for Showtime. And then I’m also working on another web series that I’m excited about and writing a feature film. As a 38-year-old gay lady, I don’t think you can wait for people to knock on your door. I think it’s up to me to keep working and to keep working in as many different facets as I can to make sure that I’m producing.
Women Who Kill plays at Frameline in San Francisco on June 21 and 24 and at Outfest in Los Angeles on July 16. Visit the movie’s Facebook page to keep up with future screening news.
