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Great LezBritain: Interview with Sandi Toksvig

“Great LezBritian” is a fortnightly stroll through the very best of British lesbo-centric entertainment and culture. Plus there will be some jolly good interviews with the top ladies who are waving the flag for gay UK.

If AfterEllen.com was a British site, it would be called AfterSandi.com. We grew up watching Sandi Toksvig on children’s TV show Number 73 in the 80s, felt her pain as she sailed around Britain with John McCarthy in the 1990s and today we are entertained weekly by her Radio 4 panel show, The News Quiz.

She recently flew into Glasgow for the city’s book festival, Aye Write, and we had the privilege of spending a funny, informative and inspiring 40 minutes with her before her performance inside one of Glasgow’s grandest buildings, The Mitchell Library.

She arrived in the green room, a very short lady, with a massive presence and immediately told us a hilarious story about being seated next to a rather boring woman on the plane who was bemoaning New Zealand (the entire country) for of its lack of shopping opportunities.

The woman, it turns out, was Strictly Come Dancing host Tess Daly, who Sandi had never heard of. “She does a programme called Strictly Come Dancing? Well that’s why I’ve never heard of her. I’m not interested in watching a reality TV programme about dancing. And certainly not one that does it strictly.”

AfterEllen.com: You have had such a varied career, how much could you of envisaged yourself doing when you first started out and how much has just been a nice surprise?

Sandi Toksvig: I really planned none of it. I initially trained as a lawyer but I was involved in the Footlights at Cambridge University and a director saw me by chance and asked me to go and work for him and then I got the children’s programme Number 73.

Every job since then has been by chance, people phone me up and I say alright then. It’s maybe hard for you to understand because you are lovely and young but the notion of being a stand-up comic or alternative comedienne or a smart arse on panel shows just didn’t exist, so I couldn’t possibly have planned it. And now I keep thinking I should do something sensible, but I haven’t.

AE: So did you think throughout your career that one day you would go into law?

ST: Yes, because I really wanted to be a lawyer and actually this remains one of my great interests and I do what I can to promote the causes of human rights. At the end of this month, for instance, I am going out to do a short film about a charity that’s helping women with microfinance for their businesses in Tanzania.

I am very interested in the V-Day campaign to stop violence against women, particularly in the Democratic Republic of Congo. So although I am not a lawyer, I am very lucky that people take my calls and therefore I can maybe, hopefully, add to these campaigns and get things done. So this is still my passion – oh this is going to be a very boring interview isn’t it?

AE: No not at all! You mentioned your time at Cambridge Footlights. You actually wrote and performed in their first all-woman show?

ST: Yes, we were all a bit tired of saying, “the doctor will see you now” which was mainly what women said in sketches back then.

AE: Who were the other women in the show?

ST: Hilary Duguid, who was the only sensible one of us not to go into show business, Jan Ravens who was very successful on Spitting Image and Dead Ringers. The other one was a girl called Emma Thompson and I don’t really know what happened with her – a terribly stunted career. (all laugh)

AE: It must have felt really satisfying and important for you to create that space for women for the first time?

ST: Yes, mainly because the boys were relentlessly uninterested in us having parts where we would get the laughs. We only ever facilitated them getting laughs and sadly I don’t think that situation has changed much. It’s pretty much how it was 30 years ago.

AE: So why do you still think that this hasn’t altered?

ST There are lots of reasons. The places you train are the comedy clubs and as far as I know every booker scheduling the evenings are men and they always worry that a women is going to lose them business. Another is that when you start, the slots you are given are often at midnight entertaining 200 drunk men.

So you have to have balls to survive and a lot of women would rather be at home. Many programmes are also slanted towards the type of male humour where they try and top each other all the time and women’s humour doesn’t really work that way. On The News Quiz I try very hard to try to ensure that everyone gets a chance to talk and it’s not just fast gags.

AE: We recently did an interview with Susan Calman and Jen Brister, and both named you as a comedy hero. These out comedians are few and far between so had you hoped that by this point of your career there would be more women out there doing it?

ST: I did think there would be more coming up behind me, yes. I really would love that and then I could go away and retire which would be my favourite thing to do.

AE: Would it really?

ST: Oh completely, I have absolutely had enough. I have so many other things that I would like to do, but there isn’t the time. Life is so interesting and exciting and actually doing the same thing over and over again doesn’t interest me nor does celebrity or fame – I find all those things rather annoying.

But yes I would love there to be more women in comedy and when we do find one I fall upon their leg with glee and say you must come and work with us. And I think Susan Calman is fantastic. Thank God for a woman who is not just funny but who has opinions.

AE: This is not just true of comedy though is it? It’s a general issue?

ST: Well what happens quite often is that women are schooled to be a bit quieter and because we occupy less space physically, and unless you are a faux-man like Margaret Thatcher, politically we don’t do very well.

On the Supreme Court, only three women have served and one of the Senators once said to Sonia Sotomayor “Well I think we will make you a Supreme Court Justice as long as you don’t have a complete melt down.” Well what is she, a candle? What we are saying is it’ll be okay as long as you don’t become hysterical and female and I think that’s how we treat women in the political arena.

AE: But we live in a time now where many young women won’t call themselves feminists, they think that there is no longer a need …

ST:I gave a talk last week on International Women’s Day, saying that if you think feminism is done then you are looking at the micro-environment you are in. If you go anywhere in the world like the Democratic Republic of Congo, rape is being used as a principal weapon of war then you would shout from the rooftops that you were a feminist. Of all the assets in the world that can be owned, such as buildings, housings only one percent is owned by women although women do 75 percent of the world’s labour – these are not my statistics, these are the UN’s.

AE: You came out in 94…

ST: Yes but I didn’t know I had to. I thought that everyone knew but as far as the press was concerned, yes I did.

AE: How did you come out?

ST: In an article in the Sunday Times because the tabloid press were about to make a big deal out of it so I spoiled it for them. It is hard to imagine now, but I was told that my career would be over. But I am still here – how annoying for the Daily Mail.

AE: You were certainly the first lesbian that we remember in the media – did you feel a pressure with that?

ST: Yes and I still do. I can’t tell you many times I’ve stood on stage at Stonewall events and been the only out woman and its tiring. I know lots of women who ought to come out, not that I am going to out them because I don’t believe in that, but I do feel sorry for them.

AE: Doesn’t it actually annoy you that these women won’t come out?

ST: Yes, but you can’t live people’s lives for them. I have a fantasy that we will all wake up one morning with a pink triangle above our heads and there would be nothing that anybody could do about it. I do think it is a bit boring now – would you just be whoever you are.

I have to say though lately when I’ve been mentioned in the papers they have stopped putting lesbian in front of my name, which is good because often when I say things, I’m not being a lesbian, I’m just being myself.

AE: I think for the next generation coming through sexuality isn’t such a big deal. They have programmes like Skins with a celebrated lesbian relationship and these things all make a difference.

ST: It is the same for my kids and I hope that I have played a part in that. What did I have? Radclyffe Hall! (all laugh)

AE: It must have been scary coming out then, when Radclyffe Hall was your inspiration?

ST: Only because we had death threats. That wasn’t pleasant.

AE: You have two young daughters, so what do you think of the current state of female role models they have?

ST: Growing up I was constantly reading stories to my girls and going “BUT it couldhave been more exciting than that, YOU could have been the hero.” Its interesting that only now is there a black Disney princess and we have Mulan who are all a bit feistier than we had.

My two are feisty girls, I’m not worried about them at all. I have tried to introduce them to inspiring women such as Helena Kennedy who is the greatest human rights lawyer in this country – wherever there is injustice being done you will find her at the forefront putting it right. Plus the lovely Kate Mosse, who has done so much for women’s literature.

AE: You were named political humorist of the year in 2007…

ST: I think they were just running out of people. I’m not a big fan of awards.

AE: Do you feel that delivering political points with a comedic edge helps get the point across in a more effective way?

ST:Well here’s what I feel, I think that I worry about the engagement of the general population. They reckon at the next general election that 30 percent of the electorate won’t vote and women died for that right to vote. I almost don’t care how you vote, if people vote for the BNP then I wouldn’t be happy and it would say something about the state of the nation, however if you don’t do anything and then the BNP do gain more power then you are partly to blame.

One of the ways I do think you can engage people is through jokes, but you have to make sure you are backing up your jokes with really serious facts. I would love to see coverage on TV that made politics much more engaging and interesting. Newswipe with Charlie Brooker is fabulous. I think it would be great to have something like the Jon Stewart show here; we need something like that where we dare to be funny and we dare to call them (politicians) out.

AE: Do you have political aspirations, would you stand as an MP?

ST: No, I feel slightly sorry for MPs because they do work very hard and it’s a tough job. My father was an MEP so I do know something about how many hours they work. I suspect that I can do more good on the outside rather than from within. I haven’t really stood for anything, although I did stand for Chancellor of Oxford University and I did that because I thought someone had to stand up for the students.

No one was paying any attention to the undergraduates and I wanted to fight against student fees which I think is wrong. If they want us to be educated properly then we as a nation have to fund it. I am busy trying to pay for my kids to go through university because I don’t want them to be in debt, but not every child is that fortunate. I did get 25% of the vote and I thought, considering I was a Cambridge graduate, I did very well.

AE: Have you ever had a contestant on The News Quiz that you were excited by and then disappointed?

ST: Yes. But I won’t say who because I can’t be mean. It’s a programme that has been around for a long time so people are anxious before they arrive and I have had people on who have surprised and delighted me greatly — Susan Calman being one — she was knockout — but there are others who have disappointed and they quietly don’t return. It’s not something everyone can do. I would actually love for Susan Calman to take over The News Quiz from me, that would be wonderful.

AE: You have a following on the web who think you should have been chosen as the new Doctor Who, would you have taken it?

ST: Yes! I’d take it and it would be about time there was a woman. How can he come back as anything but never a woman? I just think, how great would it be to have a big old dyke. (laughs)

AE: We’ll start a Facebook campaign, that’ll do it

ST: I have done some acting and I just though how easy it was? You just learn your lines and say them, what an easy job

AE: Do you use social networking?

ST: No, honestly my life is too dull. What would I say? “Oh the tomatoes have gone off?”

AE: You could share your political views, that would be interesting for people

ST: I write a column every week in the Daily Telegraph and every month in Good Housekeeping plus I am starting a new one in a magazine called The Lady and I am writing my books so I just don’t have time. I have a daughter in Thailand and one in York who I do ping and Facebook under a false name and then I have lots of love notes to write for my wife… so that is a lot of writing already.

AE: You leave love notes for your wife around the house?

ST: Yes I do, I leave many… (laughs)

AE: Let’s talk about your new book?

ST: We don’t have to. I’m going to talk about this book on stage [hands Great LezBritain a copy of the Janet and John books – for non British readers and also British readers younger than 30, Janet and John books were how British kids were taught to read at primary/ elementary school].

AE: Flashbacks. Are you going to talk about the gender stereotyping of Janet and John?

ST: Yes, they are terrible books. Very light on plot.

AE: Have you seen the furor over Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt’s kid in the US?

ST: No? [Great Lezbritain explains] That’s ridiculous. That sounds like how any child would like to dress. You know, I don’t think I would even recognize Angelina Jolie if I saw her?

AE: You are not as gay as we thought in that case. Most lesbians would recognise Angelina anywhere

ST: I am really bad at recognizing people. I once sat next to Geri Halliwell at a dinner and it was fine until I said after 40 minutes, “And what do you do for a living? My partner was kicking me under the table.

AE: Didn’t she regale you with wonderful theory on Girl Power?

ST: No. We didn’t have a lot in common, let’s put it that way.

AE: Very last question: Sandi Toksvig, what is your favourite biscuit?

ST: I don’t have a big sweet tooth but a plain digestive with cheese is nice.

AE: Oh.

ST: You seem disappointed by that.

AE: That’s not really a proper biscuit if you add cheese?

ST: No, I suppose not. I retract the cheese.

Sandi Toksvig’s new book, a collection of her Daily Telegraph columns, The Chain Of Curiosity is out now on Little Brown. (We also recommend Girl’s Are Best.)

“Great LezBritain” authors Sarah, a Londoner, and Lee, a Glaswegian, met in a gay discotheque one bleak mid winter, eight years ago and have been shacked up together ever since. When not watching Tipping The Velvet, they find time to write, run a PR company, DJ at their own club nights and love a bit of jam on toast. Follow them on Twitter at greatlezbritain.

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