Don't Quote Me: Selling Out to God

Granted, I've never even heard of Venus, but it's very disappointing to hear the founder is using it now to promote an "ex-gay" lifestyle. It's frustrating enough with the lack of support from the black community for gay rights. However, we must not let that setback discourage us from being ourselves. What we have here is a simple, old truth; the one thing we all fear, no matter who we are is being persecuted. No one likes being picked on or called names. When that happens, one is consumed with fear, then anger. So the natural instinct is to fight back, or better yet, pick on someone lower on the pecking order. The challenge then is to let go of that anger and fear and find the serenity to forgive the persecutor and help the persecuted.

The really weird part of all this is that there is no mention of lesbians in the Bible. Words like "lesbian" or "homosexuality" did not even exist at the time the Bible was written. Some people like to point to Romans 1:26-7 as a condemnation against lesbians, but if you have a closer look, it's not actually a commandment, but a complaint. And St. Paul complained a lot. Of course there's also the possibility that maybe God initially forbade same-sex relationships, but then changed his mind. After all, David did declare that the "love of Jonathon" surpassed that of women. And Ruth and Naomi? Don't get me started...

Fortunately, there are religious folks out there that don't believe in homophobia. So there's no need to let Ms. Cothran's actions cause us to lose hope. The best we can do is forgive her for falling victim to the pecking order.

And start our own magazine. Or a website.

Seriously, I've never heard of Venus magazine...

This story is sick and sad, but I'm glad that AfterEllen is calling this person on her crap. Part of me even feels a little sorry for her. Just a little.

Also, I'd hardly compare this to a "newly out lesbian who decorates herself, her house and her car in all shades rainbow." The newly out dyke might be a little overbearing, but ultimately out lesbians are good for society. What the owner of "Venus" is doing is actively contributing to poisoning society with the type of hatred that destroys lives. To compare that to a proud, if overzealous, baby dyke is pretty offensive, IMO.

Ex-Homo Depot? Right-Aid?

Really, is there a market for this? I don't think so; it'll be dead and we won't even notice when it goes.

This story further illustrates the real issue of the black communities' intolerance for Gays. The Man just found a new way to capitalize on it.

_____________________________________________________

"It's like, yeah motherf*cker, I'm fine." -- Lindsay Lohan

Redeemed, re-schmeemed. How many times can I tell you, I don't care about this stuff! Can I put it more clearly - it's about love, already! Love yourself, love your neighbour, love everybody! Jeez. That's what's fundamental.

God

Before I came out, I was in the closet and in a church - deep in a church, for about eight years. So one thing I understand quite well, having seen it firsthand for so long, is the sense of absolute conviction when someone first "finds Jesus." Anitaiowa pointed out above that being "born again" (or renouncing your sexuality in this fashion) isn't like being newly out, and she's right. Being newly out is a matter of self-discovery, of sharing yourself and your personal changes with the world. Being born again is a matter of trying to change the world to fit you. And because of that sense of conviction that what you're doing is so incredibly right, you will do just about anything to get your message out - even hurt those closest to you.

I know it because I did it. Thank goodness my friends understood it wasn't the life I would really find fulfilling, and they patiently waited through it.

The behavior that everyone else recognizes (accurately) as arrogance from this sort of Christian community doesn't seem like arrogance from the inside, and when you're surrounded by people who are telling you "it's ok" to treat people in this fashion, it's hard to see past what they're saying. While I won't deny that part of Cothran's motive is likely greed, I would say another part is that she honestly believes she can "heal" people by doing this. She simply doesn't comprehend that she's hurting instead.

As if suddenly she turned straight ! ... I mean you don't turn gay so you don't turn straight either. I'm sorry but I'm tired of people living their life only by their religion. You believe, that's fine by me, but you gotta live your life the way you want it and the way you feel it. Make your own decisions according to what feels right for you and not for others or some god ...

"Seize the day or die regretting the time you lost"

There are some aspects of this editorial I agree with, and some that I really don't. I know this might get me in trouble, but here goes...

So I completely agree with you that using a magazine that was named after a gay rights activist as a tool for promoting the belief that homosexuality is morally wrong is inexcusable. She should change the name, period. And if she truly did do this because of greed, then that's equally horrifying.

I also believe that the manner in which many Christians try to convert LGBT (through threats, discrimination, etc.) persons is horrible. And that's the underlying problem here, that's the fear. Above the selling out of her friends for money, above continuing to use a former lesbian activist's name as the title of the magazine, the main problem most have with her actions circles around the fact that she's now trying to change the sexuality of homosexuals.

But the fact is, the title of that article wasn't "10 Ways to Get Out of the Gay Life Because Otherwise You're Going to Burn in Hell," it was "10 Ways to Get Out of the Gay Life, If You Want Out!" Assuming the woman truly does believe being gay is a sin, it's not horrible for her to reach out to those who also believe it to be immoral to try to help them.

Okay, I know you're getting mad, but hear me out. Say there's a whole group of people in the world who think hating the color yellow is immoral. That's ridiculous, right, just how thinking being gay is immoral is ridiculous. Nonetheless, some people believe this to be so, believe it with all their hearts.

Now, in our imaginary world where a great deal of people think the color yellow is a sin, there's some guy who really really loves the color yellow (the same way I really really love women.) He can't help it, he absolutely loves the color yellow, but he still thinks it's immoral to do so. It's tearing him up inside. Now you and I both know that's completely stupid and idiot, but he doesn't. He thinks he's going to hell because of this "sin."

Also in this imaginary world is someone who truly thinks they can change someone so that they no longer like the color yellow. It's dumb, anyone with half a brain knows it can't be done, but he thinks he can. Should we be mad at this guy for trying to help out someone who truly wants his help? If the man who loves yellow wants to change his lifestyle to fit his moral code, even if it ends up hurting him more in the end, then it's his prerogative to do so. It's sad, and I feel sorry for them both, but they really do have every right to try and change him.

(I likened homosexuality to liking the color yellow because I feel they're equally arbitrary.)

What I'm getting at, through this long and rather silly example, is that yes, it hurts that she's no longer a gay activist. Yes, it hurts that she's perpetuating the idea that being gay is immoral. And yes, it hurts that she's no longer a member of our community. But just because our feelings are hurt doesn't mean we automatically get to condemn what she's doing. It's not about those who are gay and who are fine with it, it's about those who feel they are a bad person because of it, for whatever reason, and nothing we say or do can convince them otherwise.

Leajo, I totally get what you're trying to do here, and it's admirable that you're trying. I guess most people will tell you, though, what I'm about to say:

just because our feelings are hurt doesn't mean we automatically get to condemn what she's doing. It's not about those who are gay and who are fine with it, it's about those who feel they are a bad person because of it, for whatever reason, and nothing we say or do can convince them otherwise.

A person self-hates because she is taught that the thing she hates about herself is wrong, bad, immoral. If she was never taught that, if that negative portrayal was never part of her culture, she wouldn't self hate. The problem here is not that Cothran is reaching out and trying to "help" or "heal" - it's that she thinks there's an injury at all that needs healing.

Charlene Cothran is a shameless opportunist.   If what she says is true - that she ”always believed [being gay] was sinful” even AS she advocated for gay rights - then how can anyone believe anything she says now??  She spent years as a writer/activist even tho she thought homosexuality was sinful??  Methinks she’s a fucking liar.  And learning about the pharma industry’s involvement just makes clear to me what her true motivation was – anyone who doesn’t think it’s about $ is naïve, IMO. 

So who is this new target audience for Venus?  I know “reparative therapy” is back on the rise, and I don’t have any stats about who undergoes this “therapy” (tho I’m dubious that black lesbians are signing up by the thousands).  But who does she expect to buy and read Venus now?  All 5 of the black “ex lesbians” who’ve renounced homosexuality?? 

Venus Landin must be rolling over in her grave.

Mill - thx for the link to the claycane blog.  I always get a kick out of the whole “I’m not cured, I’m just celibate now” bit.  Yes, you’ll be alright - just don’t actually have sex with any women.  And Cothran neatly sidesteps the crux of the matter when asked if she’s physically attracted to men: “you’re trying to take me down a road that I won’t go down right now.”

Uh huh...

And “I am not dating; I am not thinking about dating, I am not praying for a husband.”

I’m sure she’s not...

But my very favorite quote from there has to be:  “I will never be entangled with the bondage of lesbianism again.”  Which makes me think she just needs to be tied up and whipped by some dom dyke until she comes to her senses.

If you want to renounce your lesbianism because you're ashamed or whatever, go ahead but telling people that you were cured, being gay is wrong and Jesus saved you from yourself is just well out of order. That just encourages hate and encourages the idea that being gay is unnatural, a sin and can be fixed and that gay people are bad people 'with the devil inside them!'. Stupid ideas like this cause violence towards homosexuals and forces people deeper into the closet for fear of rejection from society.

I don't give a damn what people believe as long as they don't force other people to listen to their crap, indoctrinate their children or cut off peoples' rights because of it. If I joined a religion saying that anyone that isn't white is a sinner and must be changed, I would be in big trouble for spreading that around. And what if I try to prevent people that aren't white from marrying? There would be uproar. And for good reason - anyone that has that attitude deserves to be looked down on as a hateful person. But it's okay as long as it's towards homosexuals. Bullshit.

Ugh. I am so pissed off now. Damn it.

__________________

What do you mean "zero pages found matching please+just+show+me+something+not+completely+retarded"?

The thing is, what she is doing has an actual effect on society. If some kook went after the color yellow, 1.no one but a few clinically insane people would take it seriously and 2.he wouldn't be tapping into a vein of hatred that has caused millions of people around the world to be executed, sent to prison, sent to shock treatment, discriminated against, made to live lies, tortured, etc etc. Hating the color yellow would not propagate the scourge of hatred that leads to more lives will be affected, ruined, or lost in the way that her hateful propaganda does.

I would actually compare her work to, say, racist or anti-semitic propaganda put out by the KKK. Just like the religious homophobes, the members of the KKK or Neo-Nazi groups probably really, really believe that they are doing good for society, and sincerely think they are saving people and pointing out the errors of our ways. And while I defend their right to do so, I in no way respect their motives, no matter how "good intentioned."

Lastly, I would say a good indicator of how successful our society has gotten in getting gays to hate and doubt themselves is that, on a pro-gay website, people are coming out and defending this chick. Can you imagine someone on a black or Jewish website saying of a KKK member, oh, they mean well, they're no different than a really staunch supporter of civil rights, really? I certainly cannot. Such is the endemic level of self-loathing in the gay community, created precisely by things like this magazine.

Im gay but that woman sort of has a point which i will not discuss, but im neither with you guys or her.I feel like this has always been such a big issue and a tremendous debate,, i dont want to get into that..everybody has a different opinion and at the end nobody wins but only to have like the greatest argument and self irritation..

LOVE AND PEACE!!

blogger and freelance writer Clay Clane recently did an interview with Charlene E. Cothran

http://claycane.blogspot.com/2007/04/interview-with-ex-gay-charlene-cothran.html

CLAY: Are you still attracted to women or is that attraction completely gone?
Charlene: I would say after 29 years of walking in the sin of lesbianism that if the devil were going to try and tempt me that he's probably not going to send a football player, if you will, because that didn’t do it for me. You follow me? I’ve got sense enough to know if he tries to tempt me he's probably going to send something that resembled the thing that I was entangled with. You follow me? So, I’m very aware of that but that’s why I’m doing the spiritual work that I’m trying to do. That’s why I’m entrenched in spiritual work that I’m entrenched in because I know that with the ministry that God has given me, it requires a power if you will that exceeds what the ordinary Christian allows themselves to go through. I’ve got a hedge of spiritual protection around me so even for some reason I wasn’t praying like I should or whatever and it came up on me I know he's not going to send a man to test me because that didn’t do it for me for thirty years! He's going to try and send some woman. I will not be moved.

read more at the above link....

Whatever the motivation for her epiphany, Ms. Cothran exemplifies the struggle that LGBTQ individuals in the Black community face. Black culture is sacred. And not many more words can speak to the solidarity and sense of family that it offers. It is a terrifying thing to step away from the arms that have nurtured you your whole life, and promise to keep you protected for the rest of it.

The problem with Black culture is that it has very clear and harsh terms in exchange for the love it gives. It demands the unquestioned subjugation of its women, the hyper-masculinization of its men, and that every member follow the teachings of conservative Christianity, which amongst other things, insists that any type of queer lifestyle, is sinful.

So, I can understand why she folded.

However, as a young, Black lesbian who was raised Southern Baptist (now Agnostic), I am embarrassed to have to acknowledge the weak minds of those such as Ms. Cothran. Not all of us are so willing to barter our integrity and emotions for the sake of feeling at home again in the hateful arms that reared us.

Shame on Ms. Cothran. Shame.

There have been some great points of view in the posts regarding this article. I am a Black, Bible-believing, 'born-again' Christian woman. I am also a lesbian. I don't believe that this is a contridiction. In fact, in my experience, it was ultimately God who brought be out of the closet and into acceptance of who I am. Not only acceptance, but celebration -- knowing (in my belief) that I was reverently, awesomely, wonderfully created by God as His/Her gift to the world. That may sound egotistical, but it is a far cry from where I was in my head when I believed what the 'church' had taught me for years -- namely that who I am is an abomination to God. How dreadful to believe in a power greater than yourself, to love that power, believe that you are loved by that power -- only if you deny the very essence of who you are.

I think that many folks in the organized church are victims of misinterpreted scripture, and general ignorance of the 'good news' of God. The church is full of good, God-fearing people who honestly believe that they have 'the truth.' Unfortunately, that 'truth' is killing some of us. What a glorious day when I could finally understand that, not only does God love and accept me as I am, but I am exactly who I was created to be! This is the 'truth that sets us free.'  This is the message that we as same-gender-loving people need to share with our community. Regardless of your spiritual or religious beliefs, truth is truth. And the truth is that you are a unique, wonderful, individual who is a gift to the world -- just as you are! There are no mistakes.

For those who may have had feelings of confusion or self-condemnation stirred up by this article and other anti-gay rhetoric, please know that you are perfect just as you are. Loving is never wrong. You do not need to be 'saved' from your gayness. I wish for you the glorious freedom that comes from accepting and embracing all that you are. You deserve that!

Peace and blessings.

As a lesbian, I too was appalled at Ms.Cothrans denouncement of her lesbianism.  As a regular subscriber I was highly upset and pissed off.  At a time where AIDS is a high among people of African descent, we in the A-A LGBTQI community needed a strong voice. We needed a voice to back us up for being who we are, that it is ok, and  no matter where we are in the world we are connected.  The disease is not a punishment for being  in a same gender life. The Venus magazine, with its opaque wrapping through the mail,  was one of the few magazines I had  been exposed to and and looked for to that represent me, although I am a Spirtualist  Wiccan and not a Christian, that was run by an African-Amercian lesbian.  I had connected with the magazine as a person of African descent and as a lesbian.  Venus magazine was a carrier for other voices who are not able to come out.  Magazines such as Out, focus on Hollywood  white heterosexuals  and white LGBTQ people.  The advocate, with its political angle does the same thing. Once again her denouncement is a setback. I guess her voice is not so strong.  I feel sorry for Ms.Cothran who like many Blacks have a false and unresearched view of Jesus Christ and God. Perhaps this is a great time for me, with my journalism degree,  to step up and start my own online magazine for the LGBTQI African-Amercian and other people of color.  Perhaps this denouncement is good for someone else who wants to be part of the good in the world and spread love and educated and celebrate diversity in their works.  It is now time for a much spiritual and stronger being to take over her former job. So LGBTQI  people allow Ms. Cothran to do her thing without anger and hate.  Let her be part of a dying breed.  There is a new generation of voices, like me, ready to take over her place and begin a new direction of purpose in the LGBTQI community.

She was brainwashed. Puhleese being celibate? Self-hating if you ask me. I mean who got to her to make her feel so bad about herself? Ugh there is nothing worse than peple who allow other people to make them feel guilty for something that isn't wrong with them.

Are you a girl gamer? No really if you like video games lets talk! PM me

i'm very disheartened by this.  i had heard of VENUS, but i've never read it.  taking the whole money thing out of the equation, it is still horrific that she would use venus' name and legacy, would just flip the script and leave her readers hanging and then condemn them...people she used to be a part of.  :-( 

wow

why do people always think they know what god wants others to do?

I think peope need to leave jesus christ out of everything. He'll do his job , if you shut up and do yours.

Conversion by these methods is not mentally healthy and not backed by the american pychologist association.

if god did not intend people to be gay I am sure he would not have created us this way...he is the big boss...i am sure he will create what he wants.

Why does it always have to come down to us and them? Why can't it just be a personal and private matter?

There are too many other things that we should be working on changing like war, homelessness, aids, child abuse.

This is such an old, beaten subject. Sorry, I just sick of it!

How many confused people are there. This is proof. People should figure out what they believe in and what they are, before they throw their opinions to the public. I have defended cases involving so called slanderous accusations where, later on, the person agreed to all that was being said. 

LAWYERLOVE