Cherry Bomb: "Is gay the new black?"

1st??YAYY

Um i think The fact that those 4 intelligent women get heated talking about this issue, means that its obviously a big problem. Hopefully we are porgressing for the better and sometime in the near future we all could really be one united  comunity. 

This was an amazing episode. I have had this same conversation with some of my friends and family. What I heard the most was that they are no against gay rights, they have a problem with the gay struggle being compared to the black struggle. When that happens they start to tune out what the LGBT community is trying to say. Imo I see the gay and black struggle as being seperate with some similarities. 

"Come On Then Get These Good Done Debbies"

Tatum made a good point: having suffered shouldn't be a pre-requisite in order to obtain basic rights.

The comparisson between sexual orientation-based and race-based issues with obtaining equality is that it both was and is being currently dealt with the public and legal way, as well as on a person-to-person basis, that is, not just official, legal, but true personal, individual discrimination-free treatment on day-to-day life.

The focus shouldn't be on who's "suffered more", indeed, or who deserves what they're fighting for more. Nor should a struggling community feel threatened by another community's struggle as if it were to shadow theirs.

It really saddens me that, although someone who's suffered discrimination in their own skin should be more likely to be aware and empathic about similar behaviour towards other people, some tend to put on a scale or compare other people's suffering rather than level with it. 

I agree with Ariana: hopefuly, in a near future, we'll think the prejudice we receive from outside the community enough and stop the one within the community.

Ladies, thanks for being  lovely and enlightened every week. Lots of love from Spain!

..sociological discussion :)

I noticed what Tatum mentioned about more diversity in lesbian bars.

I love Cherry Bomb!

Fantastic topic.

Gay the new Black

* I don't think the saying was suppose to be so literal, even though some think it is. Like Tatum was saying, I think it was suppose to be comparing the hate not the struggle.

* I do think it's kinda weird that we have two prides (I think there's more than two actually) even though I haven't been to one.

40 years!!!! WTF

Good vid

Gay is not the new black...maybe to white people I have no idea. But if you are not stereotypically gay, Hello you are still black! If anyone has ever paid the slightest attention lately Obama has gotten more hate from "Americans" than any other president, geez I wonder why? So let's call a spade a spade!

The day that I go to a protest and stop getting called the n-word from white homosexuals and stop being called a c***and dyke and pervert from fellow black people, things will not change for me and I will not have a home. I will not fit myself into a box for everyone's enjoyment for a bigger picture in order to continue to suffer at the end of the day.

But whatever!

Matt's world you just live in it!

All of you ladies made excellent points and made your rounds to getting deeper into those pointed issues.

I'm glad this has been brought up again. Really, it needs to be talked about openly.  I have to correct Gloria, LGBTQIA people suffered longer than 40 years according to history.

I don't like the fact some white  Gay Americans feel we owe them rights while forgetting their other people of color who are Gay or Bi too. It's called arrogance and it's the reason why Prop 8 didn't pass. Arrogance does that to people you know make them fall flat own their face until learned their lesson of becoming humbled and respectful.  Hopefully, they learned their lesson by having a better campaign and marketing stragety like Tatum said.

I agree w/ Both Dalila and Gloria please send people who are part of their own ethnic hertiage to reach out to the communities  of others to discuss issues or else the whole LGBTQIA community will take a seat to the back of the bus,for real.

I'm happy more and more African descent celeberities are coming out b/c it stop African-Americans from saying being Gay is a white thing-if you only knew how many times I heard this psychotic S$%^ from the mouths of black folks. Visibility will be the beacon that will light the LGBTQIA community through this challenged world.

 Rainbow Visiblity is the key.

Light & Love

Ladies!

I really enjoyed all your insights.

several times before I made the decision to comment. I have seen all of the Cherry Bomb episodes and through all of them I was always left with the feeling that even with the differences in opinion the glue that kept the group together was the fact that you are all gay women. (and friends, of course) 

With this topic however, it is clear that you are divided along racial lines. Is the fight for Lesbian and Gay rights a legitimate struggle? Yes. Can I place it on the same level as the Civil Rights struggle? I'm sorry, I cannot. As stated in the video we are still in our struggle and the only difference now is our oppressors hide behind the guise of such titles as Senator, Governor, and Representative. How do you explain a house representative shouting at the President? THE PRESIDENT!!

If I went off on a tangent I apologize, but discussions about race get me worked up. (and not in a good way.....if ya' know what I mean.)

You know we are trying to unite ALL, EVERYONE! Right now we love the fact that lesbians of all colors are sharing their coming out stories on www.shedate.com during the month of September. A few of my conservative friends said we couldn't get even 200 lesbians to share their storries but we are well on our way. They said lesbians are ashamed to tell their stories. I told them they were messing with the wrong group! Please join us and share your story. Be strong. Be proud. Your story is beautiful.

"Yeah we both got dreams we can chase alone or we can make our own."

www.lezzbuzz.com @lezzbuzz  www.shedate.com

I'm so pleased to see this topic addressed! These are the kinds of discussions that NEED TO HAPPEN! The GLBT communities are not immune to racism, sexism, classism, transphobia... and as people who understand oppression - at any level - we should be at the forefront in addressing all forms of oppression. 

As White people, we need to educate ourselves as to what Black people have to deal with day in and day out on the basis of their skin color. And, Black women, if the world hasn't worn your patience down already, then please reserve some for those of us who are trying to educate ourselves - because often we really have no idea how much we don't know.

 Why does there have to be a "whose worse off that who?" The problem with prejudice is ranking people as better or worse.  No matter what people of all genders, race, intelligence, culture are all PEOPLE and there individual struggles should not be devalued by saying comparing pain and inequality. 

 Queer issues are not like racial issues at all.  Asian parents are not going to reject their children because they are asian - i is ludicrous! The fear of being rejected by your own family can be extremelyu crippling and life threatening.

 These issue cannot be compared to issues of racial discrimination, segregation and prejudice. They are not comparable and they definitely cannot be rankable on a sliding scale of who has suffered the most. 

Plus this arguement is very American-centric around 52 Commonwealth Nations still have Sodomy laws, where is is illegal to be homosexual and you can go to jail or worse.   

I don't think that you can compare racial discrimination in different countries either. 

 In australia you would never compare queer issues with Aboriginal issues. Children of gay people were not systematically stolen from their parents and forced to live in Missions. 

There was an artwork (picture linked below) in the 2008 Sydney Biennale where an African American artist compared the African American civil rights movement with Aboriginal Australians but he failed to understand what it is actually like here in Australia and the actual issues.  He came over for a few months and went to the block and thought he could speak for Aboriginals.  He reduced a complex issues into a comment on freedom. And didn't touch on core issues of dispossession of land and humanity. (When Australia was originally colonized Aboriginal People were classified as fauna) THere is a really good Book called "I used to be fauna" 

Even this comparison where the artist thought that because both groups were discriminated against he could draw links. But it just reduced the issues and offended people. 

http://www.nzartmonthly.co.nz/durantsam1.jpg 

 I kinda went off topic...  

40 years Dalila?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_LGBT_history 

Despite how hypocritical this country has been in it's past and present, it's still a country that was founded on freedom and the respect for people's rights.

We could say that the founding fathers (and mothers)  were ahead of their time and this idea of a society based on freedom and equality isn't something that people are truly capable of putting into place. This idea that all men (and women)  are created equal and rights are given to us by our creator and the government is there to secure those rights.  The government is not there to decide who gets to enjoy what rights and who is denied other rights. 

And, according to the constitution, if one person enjoys a right or privilege, then all Americans are entitled to the same.

If I had my way, people would be able to do whatever they pleased as long as it didn't infringe on the freedom of others.  (do as ye will, harm ye none)  Though I see it is very hard for a society to live and let live.  People seem to always want control or have some say in how others live their lives.  They think society will crumble if you just let people do what they want even if it's not hurting anyone else.  

It's all about power, control, and more importantly, fear. 

As far as equal rights are concerned, I think this is a sad debate.  I look at it this way, we're all human beings with hopes and dreams.  Wishing to create families (whatever they look like); and to be able to support and enjoy our families.  

Idealistically I don't think this should even have to be debated.  Equal rights is equal rights.  Americans should know better than to treat other humans the way they have treated/do treat blacks, gays, and any other minority.  But, again there is the cloud of hypocrisy over this country from coast to coast.  EVERY single group that has come to America, seemingly different than those that conquered the land before, has faced some sort of discrimination/alienation (Irish, Italian, Jewish, Asian, Muslims, Gay people, and women).  I really don't care who's suffered more.  I care that a country based on freedom would treat people so horribly.

So regardless of being a black woman or being queer, I'm still an American and I really do expect better from my country.  Even though this country hasn't really proven it can stand up to it's own ideals.  We need to work a hell of a lot harder to meet the goals of the past.

On point, I agree with all of them to an extent.  Tatum saying the gay community expects some support and empathy.  Delilah with saying the gay community is going about it the wrong way.

If you want an ally you need to find a way to communicate with them that will make them listen.  "You can't discriminate against me because you've been discriminated against", doesn't work, unfortunately.  The comparison envokes feelings of defensiveness rather than empathy.  Gloria is right, you can't compare yourself to someone like that.  No matter how 'down' Nikki is, she'll never know what it's like to be Gloria and people can see right through this.  You can't come to me saying our struggles are the same when I know for a fact that you know nothing about the struggles I've experienced. 

As far as Delilah's example, what moron goes up to a complete stranger, preaches to them and blames them for prop 8 (in a different state)  just because they're black? 

Unfortunately, Delilah is right, you have to use the marketing strategies that take advantage of our baser instincts.  People are going to respond better to people who are more like them.  Sad but true. 

It's not a black or gay thing, it's a human thing.  Humans segregate themselves based on many factors.  Their color, their religion, their social interests, their jobs, their education, music, art.  It's just something we do.  It's a rare breed that actually seeks diversity and enjoys the company of people who are nothing like them. 

Communication, diverse communication is key.  It's so easy to get the head nods from people who think just like you.  True change comes when you invite those who don't think like you.  When you make a real effort to understand each other and realize we're both going to benefit from helping each other out.

It may seem contradictory; but there's a difference between talking and listening.  Use the marketing to get them in the door, then invite the diversity to the table to make change.

Reading is Fundamental

I'm not saying compare who has it worse or has had it worse. I'm not saying "gay is the new black" which in any case sounds ridiculous in addition to minimizing the fact that there is still racism in this country. And obviously many of the issues faced are quite different, but in many cases they are similar, and I think it would be stupid for the gay rights movement to try and re-invent the wheel, as it were. We should learn from the successes and failures of the black civil rights movement. We should work together on issues that we are both concerned with, such as (but not limited to) those of particular interest to gay blacks. We should respect each other as fighting for the rights of all Americans or all people.

The struggle of black South Africans is surely different than the struggle of black Americans, or the struggle of Australian aborigines, or the struggle of native Americans. Is it insulting to compare them? I don't personally think so. I wouldn't want to start ranking them in order of who has it worse. Why is it different to throw gays in there too?

I also want to remind people that telling someone their prejudice is showing or that their opinion doesn't matter is a really great way to get them to shut down. Whites are generally afraid to say anything about race because they are afraid of being labeled a racist for not saying the exactly right thing. In the long run that is going to be much worse for race relations.