Cherry Bomb: "The Butch Mystique: Part 2"

This was a brilliant topic, but as an African woman, this should not be about black or white. There are other races there too, which might need representing soon. Nicky brought it up, persian women, there was a movie called fire about Indian women, or I cant think striaght about middle from the middle east, this is not about Black and white. It does hlp however to have expertise from all the sides. We do need to mix it up a bit. Drag kings are hardly talked about. I have friends from so may races, adn some of my closest friends are indian, chinese and Sri lankan, thank God for International schools. We shouldnt be having this black society & White society all the time For Gods sake. Mix it up!!!! And let ur guest talk a bit more.

It bothers me and burns me up  to know and see womyn restricting other womyn in how they should be.  For  thousands of years womyn  have been sacrificed, ridiculed, raped, beaten and abused all because of what their "role" should be.  To see  some folks with in  the  Lesbian community who want to be part of 'one strong and  one weak' pairing  just to fit into a hetero illogical world baffles me.  

I hope as we move along in life, the true story of womyn history will be revealed, and we no longer have to conform to  such patriarchal definitions and roles and rules to follow. 

I am actually turned off by womyn who think like that.  

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Such a pity this show.  A mass of contradictions.  So much could have been said.

First of all I love Vallerie Wagner, but is it just me or did anybody else think this is future Jenn (Come With Me If You Want To Live Vlog)?

If a butch/femme or even sub/dom works for two people and that's what they really want, then it's perfectly healthy.

As for media representation, you have to remember that a character is not a product of the actor, but of the writer, producer, director and the actor. So even if you have an Indian actor playing a character, that might not necessarily be a true Indian representation because the script has been written from a white POV. And race is actually cultural, not just how someone looks.

It's the same with gay characters. The L Word may have been full of gay women, but none that I could culturally identify with. And I'm white.

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Thanks Nikki for mentioning the often overlooked minorities of the LGBT community, Persian/Indian/Arab minorities, it was a suprise to hear somone say 'well, hello...those exist as well".

But then again you guys are talking about the Amerincan LGBT scene, which might include those minorities but not in great numbers.

About the Butch/femme dynamic. I agree to the fact that such a dynamic grew, decades ago, to create relationships that would depict the hetrosexual norm, because thats what we were exposed to. two women, who were seen as the weaker sex at the time, couldnt create a balanced relationship. I think the butch persona came out to create that balance. and ofcourse to attract less attention than needed. It was a tool used for survival.

But I think labels are troubling for our time and age. Most of these labels stem from the way we dress, how we carry oursevles, mannerism. It gives the illusion of strength. I dont think its healthy for women's strength to be judged upon such criterias, I think we have to advocate the idea that all women ca be strong, no matter how they look or carry themseles.

I dont idenity as anything, I actually look down at someone when they ask me such a thing. I tell them "I'm just me, I'm comfortable in my own skin. I dont need a label to dictate to me how I'm supposed to act".

I know that we owe alot to butch women who were the visial representation of our community, they did alot and went through alot to bring us where we are. I look at them as a political move or representation. But I still think we shouldnt trapped in such a divide, and labels shouldnt really be such an issue anymore.

I think the butch idea came from some women not fitting into the overly strict cookie cutter that femininity has of old been, and often still is. The lesbian community was a safe place to be masculine. I used to not identify as butch, because it seemed too uncool and old fashioned, but now I have claimed the identity and I enjoy it. Masculinity and femininity exist as a complicated scale that isn't binary, m and f. Butch itself isn't a cookie cutter ID, not all butches look, act or are the same. Its the same with women, and with women who identify as femme.

Butches still exist, and some people who might have called themselves butch before, now call themselves genderqueer, because that is an id with a broader interpretation, and also adds the queer gender part of the equation. I am a bisexual butch myself, even though some people think thats a contradiction in terms. Broaden your mind. Labels are useful, but only so long as they are applied broadly, and those who challenge and seem to cross the bounds should be beloved as they make it easier for everyone to breath.

 Butch and femme should not be cookie cutter ids that every lesbian is forced into. On the other hand, it is a valid identity, with a history and culture all its own. And it will continue to exist so long as a teenager looks longingly toward the men's isle when trying to buy clothes for school, cuts her hair as short as she can get away with until the day its perfect and she finally recognizes herself in the mirror.

 it's nice to see a show like this. i must say vallerie wagner impressed me. but besides that, it's a good thing that this subject is talked about. like nikki caster,i've never even thought about it that much. maybe it's a european thing. maybe because to me it never was an issue. mix it up! but now i think it's easy for me to say, because i've never been on the other side with someone who's dealing with serious problems being labeled or because they're a minority or something. so this show got me thinking. good thing.

*happy happy, joy joy.*

I think we need to recognize that strength and empowerment can come in many forms, whether masculine, feminine, male, female, genderqueer, trans or any combination or unnamed mix thereof.

With any "label," it's someone's choice as to if/how they want to identify with it, and we shouldn't look down on someone for choosing or not choosing to identify with something. I don't think it's a category with strict boundaries, but a way to give a name to a shared experience - and even people who break boundaries unite over breaking boundaries. I think dismissing the "butch mystique" as something that's outdated, patriarchal, label-ist, whatever is really dismissive of women who are more masculine and the women who are attracted to them, whether they identify as "butch" or not. 

I do agree with what the Cherry Bomb girls were saying about basing our role models on what we see on TV, and that's something that EVERYONE deals with - in terms of race, age, body type, style, gender representation, class, location, values, etc, etc.

My opinion: I do not mind having separate Prides (Asian, Indian, Latina/o, etc) as well as diversity. I personally can understand why there are separate ones, recently I had visited a book store in Washington DC. It had diversity but I felt there was not enough. It seemed to lean more toward gay males and fair skin (Caucasian). One book I did notice was an autobiography of an author who is deaf.

starting to like this vlogg ^^

i hate labels.... i identifiy as just me. i am who i am and love who i love. i dnt do labels and dnt put people in these label boxes....

as far as butch/dom/stud white women dating black women i see it all the time here in DC. i actually prefer white women in general because they r more of the kind tht doesn't really do labels as far as who dates who, as for black women they seem to be in the whole femme(woman) and dom(male ) thing and even though i am a black woman i cant stand tht ... i have a very multicultural group of friends and we all date out of our race which i think is funny but great as well.