Cherry Bomb: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

I would be the first to sign up if not for our rather homophobic military stance.

great show as always. awesome guests.

Paris Pickard is effin hot! that alone will get me to watch that movie ;)

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First of all, i would just like to say that i really enjoyed watching this week's episode.  As someone who's currently serving in the military, this week's topic is a part of daily life and, of course, i've got a few comments to share.  I promise i'll try not to ramble.

Point number one: Warm Bodies.  Very true.  Before the economic downturn spurred a lot of people into service, every branch (especially the Army) was desperate for warm bodies. That desperation worked as a sort of security blanket that leads to senior enlisted and officers turning a blind eye.  In fact, it still works if you're trained in a field that's considered particularly "high-need", regardless of whether or not recruiters are meeting their quotas.  It also differs some from branch to branch.  I'm in the Navy and a fellow sailor and friend of mine was actually caught red-handed and no action has been or will be taken against her.  At the same time, a friend of mine who's in the Army has to be cautious about even being seen in public with people who are known to be gay.  Branches like the Navy and Air Force are far more lenient than the Army and Marines (at least that's the way things are where i'm stationed).

Secondly, marriages actually are a pretty common cover.  Men especially seem to have to rely on this more than women.  A friend of mine has been married for a few years now and that has probably saved him from a witch hunt or two.  Two more acquaintances of mine (again, both men) are in the process of getting married for the same reason.  On the other hand, i've yet to see any woman get hitched as a cover.

This brings me to the "don't be flamboyant" point.  Again, i'm sure it might be a different story if i were serving under a different command, but out here, "don't be flamboyant" is simply defined as, "don't broadcast your relationships when you're on or near the base".  The interpretation is, of course, a little looser for women than for men.  I get away with a lot more than i would if i were male.  I'm frequently mistaken for a guy when i'm wearing civilian clothing and i'm slender enough and flat-chested that even in our working uniforms (camouflage, coveralls, etc.) that it happens then, too.  But because it doesn't effect my job performance, my command won't do or say anything about it.

That said, the military as a whole does do little things here and there to enhance masculinity in men and tone it down in women.  In the Navy, this is primarily done through uniforms.  For instance, we've recently started wearing a new service uniform (NSU), which is to be worn if you're working in an office or some other place where you're not really engaged in a "physical" job.  The men's uniform presents a series of strong vertical lines and emphasizes shoulders and broad chests.  Conversely, the women's uniform enhances (or tries to) any feminine attribute.  And if you're flat and slim like me, it's a very awkward uniform.  The shirt is not to be tucked in and is cut to hug curves and breasts.  This means that there's about three inches of air between my chest and my shirt, while the shirt hugs my waist and flares out over my non-existent hips.  There are only two tiny pockets in the pants and none on the shirt.  Our winter dress uniforms do much the same thing.  So while the stereotype may say that military women are all butch, it's pretty close to the opposite.  Women are actually encouraged- subliminally and openly- to be feminine and most women respond to that.

In short, as long as you're in uniform, it's often difficult to be flamboyant unless you show it through body language.

And last but not least, i have to share one of the most frustrating aspects of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.

It was mentioned that even straight people have to worry about being targeted for witch hunts and the like.  And that's true.  Unfortunately, there's a much darker side (or at least a dishonest one) to all of that.  Since being stationed at my current command almost a year ago, i've known four fellow sailors who have been or are currently being discharged under DADT.  Of those four, one is a lesbian, one is bisexual, and the other two are straight men faking gay.  All four actually turned in letters declaring that they're homosexual.  All four actively sought out a discharge.  I know one more straight person who is contemplating following their example.

So there are those of us who hide, who do what we can to stay in the service, and there are those who would take advantage of the situation.  There are those of us who would actively seek every way to fulfill our duties and serve on behalf of those who can't or won't, and there are those who can't resist the urge to go back on their word and decide that they can't follow through with the commitment they made.

I apologize for ending on that sour note, but i have to get ready for a duty muster and even though i have more to add, it'll have to wait.

I'm in the Marines and I haven't had any problems. I don't exactly try to hide my sexuality but I think that 90% of people don't care. I think that's only because I am female. Were I male, it would be a completely different story. It's great because I can be friends with the guys and hang out and stuff and no one assumes I am screwing them like they do with the straight girls. Oddly enough, I think I might actually have an easier time than they do... I get the feeling that all of the COs I have had, had I officially come out, would have said "DUH, get back to work."

And to the person who commented on uniforms... try the Marines' uniform. I look like an awkward stewardess (or is that flight attendant nowadays?).

It does piss me off that people who do drugs or beat their wives (and have been convicted of doing so) seem to have more right to be in the military than I do, but, if they kick me out, their loss.

I signed up under DADT so I can't really complain if they apply it and kick me out. After 7 years I think I would rather do something else anyway. LOL

I'm not sure, if that accurately describes what I'm going to attempt to, I wouldn't say argue, I guess more just add to the discussion. Because I think that......there's a level of discomfort, or pervert paranoia that exist when a couple of strangers are put together in the type of close living space, like it is in the military. You know how like if you have a new guy roomate, when the level of familiarity, is just on a name basis, and how much you're putting in, and not a whole lot more. There's a "natural" assumption to assume he's a pervert, and so you're actions around the place  tends to come from a place of "pervert paranoia". (Please if someone has a better way of explaining it, help out lol) i.e. locking the doors when getting dressed, whereas, before you wouldn't have.

Just to give you an example though, as a police officer, I think my tough, or "butch" mannerisms, immediately spells Lesbian. Which, I'm happy that it does, but I've had about 50 or so claims of being a pervert, while patting down other females due to the same sex pat-down policy that we have in place. We just laugh it off most times, but as I think about it. I think, that some of that perverted paranoia plays into why Don't ask, Don't tell exists in the military. Just to be clear, I don't find anything sexually arousing in patting down alcholics, and crackheads lol. But, yeah, I hope any of that made any sense whatsoever. The book sounds like an enlightening read, cause I just always assume, gay folks, and lesbians alike use Don't ask, Don't tell as a way to get a ticket back home. Thanks for the insights on that.

Usually most of the topics I don't have a lot of experience in or I can't relate to but for once I have an inside view. Yes don't ask dont tell sucks it makes people paranoid and pushes people to the point where they have to hide some of the most basic details of their lives. Everyone talks about their family and kids and who they're dating but as a gay person in the army you have to essentially go back in the closet and not be able to share anything. Most people know I'm gay and they're fine with it I've never had a problem but to be judged on something that has nothing to do with my job performance is absolutely ridiculous. Having a policy like don't ask don't tell essentially tells the world that the military is ashamed of gay people and that we need to be hidden away but I'm not ashamed of anything and I'm tired of having to worry about being discharged for something that isn't a big deal. People just need to get over it let us have our rights and be able to live and love without judgement.

So my first comment was a simple thank you for doing this ep and raising the awareness of this issue. Now after reading some of the other comments I feel I should share a little bit about my story.

I have been in the army for 6 yrs now. I have been to many different units and expirenced everything from harrassment to acceptence by my peers and superiors alike. I have not "officially" come out to anyone in my unit but most of them assume. I don't confirm or deny any of the rumors I just sit back and let ppl talk and laugh at the stories. I have never had any problems at this or any previous unit until the last couple of months. I happened to piss off the wrong guy and while he truly has no problem with my sexuality he does however, have a personal problem with me and is now attempting to use this against me.

This is  my biggest problem with this policy. CO's can pick and choose when to use the policy and there isn't a whole lot that we as service members can do about it. I have seen soldiers who have served 10 yrs with no Art. 15's or UCMJ actions. ( basically they stayed outta trouble) They like myself have done evrything asked of them and always given 100%, but because someone decided they didn't like that person this was the easiest way to get to them and it's not an easy accusation to fight. With DADT it's guilty until proven innocent.

So to those that fight for the reppeal of this policy and those that serve despite the policy thank you because as long our presence is here they can't turn a blind eye forever...

 I know this is a poorly put together post but I'm just getting off a 24hr shift so yeah... I'm a bit tired

Great convo, BTW. 

Do not judge, unless you want to be judged...

Gotta say that while I would love to maybe live in the U.S one day (just to get a taste I reckon - then come back home), a major thing that would stop me is the anti-homosexual code in the military - and that's not a moral stance, I'm actually about to go to the royal military academy here in Oz to be an Army officer and the Australian Defence Force recognise same sex relationships entirely and without prejudice.

That said in our military, women are prevented (though not by military code but constitutional code believe it or not) from entering the military and being employed in direct combat roles (ie: from the entire Armoured, Artillery and Infantry corps in the RAArmy, and being clearance divers (water anti-bombers) in the RANavy).

I love Australia, I love what western military efforts are doing in disaster areas and in peace-keeping roles around the world - but it makes me sad to see such a hugely important entity as the United States military hindered by such outdated (and frankly, such UNNECESSARY) rules as the don't-ask-don't-tell phenomena.  

I pray that when our generation matures and come to power as the old one retires, that my american counterparts in the U.S Army/Navy/Air Force etc. can change that.

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