by scribegrrrl

Gloria Steinem defends "chick flicks"

I hate it when I rave about a movie and then someone calls it a "chick flick." I have fond memories of defending Beaches when it first hit theaters — although, in retrospect, I may have been a little too adamant about that one. It hasn't exactly held up over the years.

But other estrofests, like Terms of Endearment, still get my vote as quality films, period, not just quality "chick flicks." Why does the presence of female characters mean a movie is for women, anyway, rather than just about them? Does that mean Ocean's Thirteen is for men and I shouldn't bother to see it? (Well, I wasn't about to line up for that one anyway, but that's not the point.)

Gloria Steinem recently asked some similar questions — in a much more eloquent and hilarious way — in an article titled "In Defense of the 'Chick Flick'." She helpfully proposes the term "prick flick" as a guide for moviegoers who might accidentally wander into Evening and come out scarred and emasculated.

Rather than try to improve on her rhetoric (I'm neither that cheeky nor that stupid), I'll just quote in pertinent part:

"If the 'chick flick' label helps you to avoid the movies you don't like, why is there no label to guide you to the ones you do like?

Just as there are 'novelists' and then 'women novelists,' there are 'movies' and then 'chick flicks.' Whoever is in power takes over the noun — and the norm — while the less powerful get an adjective. Thus, we read about 'African American doctors' but not 'European American doctors,' 'Hispanic leaders' but not 'Anglo leaders,' 'gay soldiers' but not 'heterosexual soldiers,' and so on.

That's also why you're left with only half a guide. As usual, bias punishes everyone. Therefore I propose, as the opposite of 'chick flick' and an adjective of your very own, 'prick flick.' Not only will it serve film critics well, but its variants will add to the literary lexicon. For example, 'prick lit' could characterize a lot of fiction, from Philip Roth to Bret Easton Ellis and beyond. 'True prick' could guide readers to their preferred non-fiction, from the classics of Freud to the populist works of socio-biologists and even Rush Limbaugh."

Read the full article to get the full impact of Steinem's inimitable way of combining humor with incisive social commentary. I marvel at it every time.

Meanwhile, what are your favorite so-called chick flicks? Here are some that come to mind without much reflection on my part — add your faves in the comments. (Again, I would just call these "movies," but they seem to show up on others' lists of chick flicks.)

1. Terms of Endearment
2. Funny Girl
3. The Hours
4. Out of Africa
5. Sense and Sensibility
6. Steel Magnolias
7. The Women
8. Thelma and Louise
9. Fried Green Tomatoes
10. When Harry Met Sally
11. Little Women (the 1933 Katharine Hepburn version, please)
12. Boys on the Side
13. The Joy Luck Club

scribegrrrl's blog

Submitted by

scribegrrrl

on July 9, 2007 - 11:41am.

TAGS ::

Not to Contradict Gloria Steinem

Submitted by

MsWoo, Moderator (408 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 11:57am.

I would bump a few of those for Practical Magic. And I concur re Beaches as well. I would also add Tea With Mussolini to the list.

that's not Gloria's list

Submitted by

scribegrrrl, Senior Writer (5436 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 12:22pm.

... nor is it even mine, really -- just wanted to list some titles to get the discussion going!

LMAO! A side note about

Submitted by

Chantal (300 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 12:42pm.

LMAO! A side note about your picture. Love it!

As for the chick flicks. I actually quite enjoyed Little Women, both versions

The Way The Cookie Crumbles - http://blog.alrightstill.net

Because Visibility Matters - The AfterEllen.com Fanlisting - http://aefan.alrightstill.net

Mesmerizing - The Lauren Blitzer Fanlisting - http://lbfan.alr

Ditto

Submitted by

I fish alone (44 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 4:43pm.

<333333333 Practical Magic

How exactly

Submitted by

Aidan P (110 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 12:09pm.

How exactly is The Hours a chick flick? This is just my opinion but having seen the movie several times as well as analytically dissecting it, the film does not even come close to being a chick flick.

I agree

Submitted by

scribegrrrl, Senior Writer (5436 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 12:21pm.

... I wouldn't call The Hours a chick flick either, but a lot of other people do -- see this list, for example: http://www.filmsite.org/greatchickflicks.html

Sometimes it seems that "chick flick" is applied to any movie that features female characters. That's what's so silly about that term.

definition of chick flic

Submitted by

cosmiccowgirl (531 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 3:38pm.

I don't think the people at filmsite.org understand the concept of the chick flick. Casablanca, The Philadelphia Story, and It Happened One Night are NOT chick flicks.

weirdly enough

Submitted by

scribegrrrl, Senior Writer (5436 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 9:45pm.

... that filmesite.org list came from O magazine -- Oprah herself. Well, or her people, anyway!

Not that that means anything. Just that I would expect more from a female-dominated empire.

Lovely and Amazing,

Submitted by

Ace (272 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 12:58pm.

9 to 5, and The Princess Bride come to mind. Particularly Lovely and Amazing. I told everyone I knew about that one I saw it.

A couple of my chicky-flicky

Submitted by

newbie (258 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 12:58pm.

A couple of my chicky-flicky favorites:

“Crazy in Love” only because of Gena Rowlands and Holly Hunter and my fav, Frances McDormand“

The French Lieutenant’s Woman”

“Wuthering Heights”

“Practical Magic”

“The Way We Were”

“In Her Shoes”

for what ever the definition..............probably because I've seen them with only women?? mmm.

Add on

Submitted by

Vee (215 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 12:59pm.

Great list here are some I would add:

Pretty Woman, Boys on the Side, My best friend's wedding, Titanic and Meet Joe Black ;)

And to add my favorite

Submitted by

newbie (258 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 1:14pm.

And to add my favorite prick-flic: Would have to be "Deliverence". Come on, that's an all male cast, right?

And "Cast Away"

Chick flicks are my weakness...

Submitted by

Sally (302 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 1:37pm.

I admit it! here, publicly, I rather watch a chick flick any night over anything else!My list would be maybe too long. But just to name a few that come to my mind and are on my DVD collection:
Pretty Woman; The American President; Steel Magnolias; Beaches; Terms of Endearment; One True Thing; My best friend's wedding; The way we were; Falling in Love; Ghost; The Next best thing; Wit; ... I think I better stop, or I'll be here typing for a long time!!
lesbian without borders

I always though chickflic

Submitted by

gali (not verified)

on July 9, 2007 - 1:53pm.

I always though chickflic was used for the kind of movie that would bore the majority of men? (And I mean men who otherwise enjoy good movies!) Flics with no action and too much emotion on subjects men usually are more practical about!

I wouldn't have thought "Thelma and Louise" would qualify. myself!

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

Chick/Dick flicks

Submitted by

Omega II (389 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 2:51pm.

I away thought "chick flicks" were movies targeted toward women, but are usually used to identify romance or romantic comedies for women.

And for the record "prick flicks" are called "dick flicks" the title has been around (and THAT is not what I meant and you know it!). "Dick flicks" are refer to romance or romantic comedies targeted toward guys(see- John Cusak films).

"I can explain why I like, but not why I love."

Eh?

Submitted by

GrrrlRomeo (374 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 4:24pm.

But...I like most of John Cusak's movies and I don't have a dick...

He's my favorite guy actor

Well...

Submitted by

Omega II (389 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 8:26pm.

I'm not a chick and I like chick flicks.

"I can explain why I like, but not why I love."

Under the Tuscan Sun

Submitted by

the linster (491 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 3:00pm.

Diane Lane and Sandra Oh and Kate Walsh, oh, my.

Oh...

Submitted by

~H~ (2201 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 10:39pm.

and what about the early Helena Bonham Carter films (e.g. A Room With A View)?

Hope Floats.

Submitted by

Rachel (41 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 3:06pm.

I'm a sucker for Sandra Bullock.

"There is no formula. You learn to love by loving. "
Aldous Huxley

The Accused

Submitted by

stormy (185 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 3:51pm.

with Jodie Foster...as painful as some parts were to watch.

Sci-Fi/Fantasy Fiction

Submitted by

GrrrlRomeo (374 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 4:35pm.

are not chick flicks.

Chick flicks are reality based...where they're all literal...and people die of things like cancer, and AIDS, someone gets married or divorced, someone has a baby or someone goes through menopause. Real life crap.

Beaches

Submitted by

Hawk (41 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 4:44pm.

I think Beaches holds up extremely well and I think it should have won the Best Picture Oscar but didn't because it is a chick flick. they picked a guy flick instead.

Not to mention the fact those two could have been gay in that movie...should have been on Sarah and Lori's list.

I don't suppose

Submitted by

Na (132 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 5:35pm.

Aliens qualifies? Hey, it's got two women (at least one of them never mistaken for a man) and a cute little girl... Not to mention a happy ending (ok, maybe not for everybody)

Well, I've watched it with a bunch of girls, we had a laugh and some popcorns, that's my idea of a chick flick and I'll stick to it

Haven't seen it (yet),

Submitted by

Laura (125 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 6:07pm.

but I imagine Evening will be this year's Power Chick-flick.

Wouldn't it be great if they started marketing these like they do action films? (Macho, gravelly voice-over, ominous background music: In a world... where Mother-Daughter relationships get complicated... dramatic music peaks/cut to close-up of Glenn Close looking steely-eyed and tough, yet oddly pensive.)

That's hysterical Laura!

Submitted by

newbie (258 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 6:21pm.

That's hysterical Laura! LoL!!
You should be in marketing!

Nah...

Submitted by

Laura (125 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 6:43pm.

Too cut-throat. :) I just watch too many damn movies, I think. Speaking of -- awesome avatar!

I hear you, dabble a little

Submitted by

newbie (258 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 6:52pm.

I hear you, dabble a little in that profession myself. I said “ouch” one too many times.

Thanks, regarding my avatar. I enjoy yours also. I’ll never look at “blind justice” the same way again. ;0)

the notebook

Submitted by

msgulp, Moderator (16399 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 6:31pm.

sleepless in seattle, an affair to remember, are we getting into oldies? breakfast at tiffany's, roman holiday, kramer vs. kramer, ditto on the way we were... can sisterhood of traveling pants count? as good as it gets (i'm iffy on that one), um... that's what i got for now. but the notebook, definitely.

"didn't i throw you out of a window? " - jessica/nikki, heroes

Movies

Submitted by

jennifer from p... (1231 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 7:27pm.

I realize that I'm all wrong, but to me a chick flick is a crappy movie, like The Notebook or Music and Lyrics. It's not a good film like Terms of Endearment or The Spitfire Grill. A chick flick is B at best, and not B in a good way but B in that it's going to be marketed to women who read Harlequin romance novels and don't want to be challenged too much and the girl and guy MUST end up together. But, like I said, I know that this isn't how the chick flick is defined outside of the little world that spins relentlessly in my own head.

I think of a chick-flick as

Submitted by

newbie (258 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 7:46pm.

I think of a chick-flick as something that a regular guy just wouldn’t understand (too deep), is romantic (too deep), has a moral to the story (too deep), speaks a different language (way too deep), and possibly, if we are lucky, has a subtle if not blaring lesbian undertone (over his head). And then again, some are just guilty pleasures with a lovely leading actress or two.

But that’s just in my little swirling brain. ;0)

Also,

Submitted by

Laura (125 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 7:55pm.

I might venture (at the risk of goin' all radical) a chick flick is something a (maybe stereotypical) man's man might find a little threatening, therefore the tendency to poo-poo these movies so much? I mean, I think we all realize the power a grouping of emotionally charged women can bring, ya? Can be scary sometimes... :)

Good point Laura. Scary

Submitted by

newbie (258 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 8:13pm.

Good point Laura. Scary prospect for some men. Especially if there are more than three women, they're fully clothed and talking in full sentences. Hehehe!

Poor guys...

guys?

Submitted by

gali (not verified)

on July 9, 2007 - 8:59pm.

Starting to sound like we are going to need more definitions! What's considered a man's man? Or a "regular"guy? Because the guys I know and consider regular guys have no problems with morals in stories, speaking different languages, deeper meanings or picking up lesbian subtext! Or am I just lucky in the guys I know? :)

And man's men? Would Clint Eastwood or Mel Gibson for instance be examples of man's men?

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

Man's man

Submitted by

Omega II (389 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 9:16pm.

I'm going with a guy who refuses to see a movie because it might make him cry or yell out,"You two belong together" .

"I can explain why I like, but not why I love."

Clint Eastwood or Mel Gibson

Submitted by

Laura (125 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 9:29pm.

Clint Eastwood or Mel Gibson for instance

That's kind of what I was thinking -- I mostly meant the kinds of guys that Hollywood markets the Action Flick to. I didn't mean to make a sweeping generalization of all guys, certainly. As a matter of fact, I have a particular go-to guy that I'll see "chick flicks" with all the time -- he's almost always more excited to go see these with me than my best girl-friends.

I'm also acquainted with several guys who'd rather cut themselves than be caught at a screening of Fried Green Tomatoes. These, I don't keep so close. :)

Pruning Shears, Freud, and nothing else from me

Submitted by

jennifer from p... (1231 posts)

on July 9, 2007 - 9:56pm.

I respect a guy that will watch a good chick oriented film and not act like he's getting neutered with rusty pruning shears. The action genre is less than satisfying anymore, so c'mon you lurking straight males, admit it, you love the chick-driven movies.

Clint Eastwood....

Submitted by

eugenie (59 posts)

on July 10, 2007 - 12:05am.

...of course. One of the great American directors these days, and always a phenomenal screen icon. Nothing against Mr. Gibson, as underrated as an actor as he is overrated as a director..nothing, that is, until his anti-semitism was exposed in his recent burnout. Though that still leaves his performances where they were - he's the best screen Hamlet I've seen, at least in the later part of that film...

Can I still be in the secret lesbian club if I would rather cut myself than watch Fried Green Tomatoes, whether anyone caught me or not? Does it even make a difference if I only love women?

confused!

Submitted by

gali (not verified)

on July 9, 2007 - 9:54pm.

This is what is confusing because a guy who goes to see chick flicks all the time, I personally wouldn't call a "regular" guy. Where as (judging by interviews and the movies he made) I would consider Eastwood a "regular" guy but I think many would call him a man's man!

Maybe we should, as "chicks" appropriate the term chick flic and say a chick flic is a movie most women enjoy? That way we can also claim a movie like terminator as a chick flic;) 'cause come on!!! Didn't we all enjoy Linda Hamilton in that and she definitely made that movie about the female lead! ;)

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

T2 for chick flic ;)

Submitted by

Cailean (163 posts)

on July 10, 2007 - 3:31am.

HAHA!

Gali, I like the way you think! T2 is one of my all time favorit chickflics also known as chicks who kick ass movies. If liked that one you maybe like 'The long kiss goodnight' too. As a plus Geena Davis plays the lead... and she can throw her knife as deadly as Angelina Jolie any day!

CF list...or IS it??

Submitted by

zarathustra (not verified)

on July 10, 2007 - 12:36am.

I agree with most of you, that ‘chick flick’ is usually pejorative. But I’ve got my own definition of the phrase :-p So here are some from my list:

Female Peversions

I Shot Andy Warhol

Ruby in Paradise

Ghost World

Hard Candy

Women on the Verge (or just about any Almodovar flick yes, even tho he’s a man)

Guncrazy

Girl Interrupted

Manny & Lo

The Spitfire Grill

Delores Claiborne

The Virgin Suicides

Ha! Now that I'm looking at this, I realize that none (or few) of these fit the commonly accepted definition of "chick flicks." Ah, well - they'll always be CF's to me.

Excellent list!

Submitted by

Laura (125 posts)

on July 10, 2007 - 2:55pm.

Perhaps these would be the "Kick-Ass Chick Flicks"? I think Almodovar could be given a definite pass into the club. I love, love, love his stuff.

much KACF love

Submitted by

zarathustra (not verified)

on July 10, 2007 - 4:56pm.

“KACF.” I like it! For me, the ‘kick ass’ was implied, but I now see the importance of stating it. So I’ll go with KACF as a subgenre of CF’s (and yes, Pedro rocks)!

Can’t believe I forgot the Long Kiss Goodnight (good one, Cailean) And Foxfire. Also, The Hunger, and...wait for it, wait for it.... Citizen Ruth! That’s right - “crazy” doesn’t preclude the label of CF for me – in fact, it usually defines it (and who doesn’t love Laura Dern as a glue huffer)??

Also, John Waters – I love you, I adore you, I’ve seen all your films at least twice. But how many more Hairsprays do we need??? Another movie AND another play? (and John Travolta – you are NO Divine, that’s all I’m gonna say).

Sorry everyone – that’s been on my mind for awhile. And um, I'm a little wired at the moment. Severe lack of sleep....

KACF, great genre!

Submitted by

Cailean (163 posts)

on July 10, 2007 - 7:57pm.

I adore G.Davis in Thelma and Louise, Commander in Chief and of course Long Kiss Goodnight! Never enough of Miss Davis for me...

Do we have a list of Kick ass Chickflics?

I think I do see a theme

Submitted by

gali (not verified)

on July 10, 2007 - 12:57am.

I think I do see a theme there ;)

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

Yes,

Submitted by

zarathustra (not verified)

on July 10, 2007 - 1:23am.

Yes, it IS subtle, isn’t it?!

Thought it was a list of

Submitted by

gali (not verified)

on July 10, 2007 - 7:15pm.

Thought it was a list of crazy-ass chicks flics rather than kick-ass chicks flics. That proofs it once again! "Subtle" just passes me by :)

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood...

Submitted by

careerstudent22 (42 posts)

on July 10, 2007 - 1:38am.

It's got Sandra Bullock, Ellen Burstyn, AND the always-wonderful Maggie Smith (love her!) Plus, no one lays a guilt trip on her daughter better than Ellen Burstyn in that movie Except...my mother!

----------------------------------------------------

The use of a preposition at the end of a sentence is something up with which I will not put.

---------------------------------------------------

eugenie

Submitted by

xenafan71 (37 posts)

on July 10, 2007 - 4:23am.

You are going to lesbian Hell if you don’t watch Fried Green Tomatoes HA HA HA (don’t beat me up I’m just kidding)

My goodness...

Submitted by

eugenie (59 posts)

on July 10, 2007 - 1:01pm.

...I hardly ever beat people up these days. Certainly not for joking...

I quite like some of the films on Zee's list, anyway - does that get me back in? Especially Gun Crazy, assuming she means the original, and not Ms. Barrymore's flawed remake, though I do like Drew.

Grindhouse ought to be on that list. A terrific chick flick.

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