I have long been confused about women, especially lesbian women, loving this show.  It is the single most misogynistic piece of crap ever to televised.  Ryan Murphy is the gay male equivalent of the man hating dyke:  a woman hating fag.   I'd like to believe that Sharon was just happy to work after QAF went off the air, but she's got a stead gig on Burn Notice.  (or maybe that didn't get renewed.)
 

Lisa

Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security -- B. Franklin

I'm not sure misogyny is the right word here - the men fare no better than women on that show. The writers just seem extremely attached to the whole "women are insane, men are scum" world-view. It used to feel like particularly subversive social commentary (still does sometimes), but lately it just seems like a cheap way to generate their particular brand of turgid, distasteful melodrama.

Which, you know, fine if that's your type of thing, but it gets boring very quickly.

I feel like NIP/TUCK is such a sneaky and intelligent social commentary on the major social trends and infatuations we see in the world, one of which, of course, is the fascination with body image and how we look and it is mostly women caught in the prison of body obsession so...clearly the show doesn't leave men unscathed as most men on the show have these truly unattractive qualities.

The world of NIP/TUCK is so evil and so negative and depressing that if you pay attention to what's really being said, it's actually dead on the money. It's entertaining for sure, but it's a very insightful show for a more critical viewer. I definitely wouldn't agree that the show is promoting this superficial mentality as the majority of these characters are so screwed up that no one I know would envy them. Everyone on the show is unhappy or traumatized in some way. They never promote the idea that having these surgeries is going to actually fix the real problem. In fact, it tends to make things worse for the characters and it usually has some sort of complication or emptiness that follows.

I love Sharon Gless----always have. She was my first celebrity autograph from back in the Cagney and Lacey days. I wrote her a fan letter and she sent me a sexy black and white glossy of her in a bathrobe that was opened nicely at the top. (Hmmmm....I said outloud as I hung the portrait over my trundle bed....maybe I like girls better than boys....)

However, this sounds like a show that would piss me off and I'd rather remember Sharon back when she hung out with her partner.

--Mari

 

Mari SanGiovanni

Author of: Greetings From Jamaica, Wish You Were Queer...

www.GreetingsFromJamaica.com

i have been a devoted fan of the show since it started (i even own all the seasons on dvd). and i was so excited when i got my girlfriend hooked on it with them over the summer, so that she would be able to follow along with me as we watched this season. well...all that's out the window now. she gave up two episodes or so in, and just last week i decided i dont really think it's worth watching anymore.

mysoginy and all other political issues aside (which i rather liked being include in the show, to a point, as it gave me even more topics of discussion in regards to it), it seems like they're trying SO hard to be shocking and interesting this season. frankly, it's too over-the-top, and ironically enough, falls short of the top-notch entertainment that got me interested in the first place.

so even though my girlfriend says i'm crazy, i'll probably just settle for buying the season on dvd sometime in the future (cause at some point, i'd like to see how it all went down) and say goodbye to my weekly show for good. damn.

At one time it seemed cutting edge and had something to say. A lot of people have said that the show jumped the shark once the serial killer mystery was solved and while I had hoped it wasn't so...I would have to agree. Now I am seeing sensationalism for its own sake. Yikes. And the funny thing is that it has attracted a lot of good actresses to the show. But yeah, ultimately no one comes off looking good in this show...male or female...and I have just stopped caring.

I think it's pretty interesting that Sharon Gless, who was once famously targeted by a stalker, has taken on the role of stalker herself.

I don't think Ryan Murphy is a misogynist at all. Very far from it in fact. His show is consistently populated with fantastic female guest stars of all ages who are given meaty roles with great dialogue.

If you don't like sensationalism or black humor, fine. But to accuse Murphy of misogyny is really heavy-handed.

 

Count me in as one of the heavy-handed.

It sounds like you're confusing the actors and their characters, fiction and reality. Ryan does not take the actors and "turn them psycho." The characters may become psycho. But simply because a woman in fiction comes to a bad end doesn't make the fiction a misogynist tale.

 

 

I agree that the men on the show are also base and repulsive in a lot of ways. But they also have power -- they're rich, attractive, popular despite their flaws. We're encouraged to be on their side. The women are so often victims, and yet also unlikeable, and it's just hard to take -- especially the shock of seeing strong, feminist Sharon Gless giving a speech about being a lonely old woman, implying that she had no choice but to resort to stalking and killing because her life was over anyway.

And I didn't even have sympathy for her character; there wasn't enough humanity left to feel sorry for. I just felt kind of cheated.

I don't know. The thing is, I do love "dark" stuff. And I used to love Nip/Tuck. Kimber, for example, was fascinating and had her own kind of power. But now she's giving up and falling apart. Lately the show just seems so brutal to women.

I think Carnivale got the mix right -- it was dark but never took the easy route to it. I know that's a totally different kind of show, though.

Actually, the most misogynistic episodes appear to be written by Brad Falchuk. Ryan Murphy hasn't written as many episodes since Season 2.

I feel the same way about nip/tuck as you do, Scribegrrl. I've watched (and enjoyed) ut through it's ups and downs during four seasons, and this season started out really promising as well, whatwith Portia de Rossi playing an out lesbian, and more of Dawn Budge!!

 Then came a series of unnecessary deaths. Ginas fall, and I was disgusted when Colleen Rose murdered that competing agent, No more nip/tuck for me, I think the series have done all there is left to do and they might as well kill of Matt, Sean and Christian and be done with it.

Sharon Gless was my #1 back in her Cagney & Lacey days.  I know she's struggled with alcohol and her weight over the years, but damn!!  The last few roles I've seen her in, she looks like a female Harry Potter. 

When I ever scrolled down and saw the Skeletor photo of Joan Van Ark I fell out of my chair and immediately took to the fetal position.  WTF?

I've never watched Nip/Tuck and it seems like a nighttime version of the equally lame daytime soap opera Passions.