So I don't have one right now but I'm working on it... Jennifer Vanasco, will you marry me?

Love Effie Ferns!

Kisses!!@@

SO, WELL I AM THE FIRST TO POST COMMENT'. I WOULD LIKE TO BRING TO NOTICE  THAT THERE SHOULD BE MARRIAGES. ITS THE RIGHT WE ALL DEFEND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. ISN;T IT?

I always had in mind i would settle(i think its never too young to want to settle, as long as one really feel strongly so) and now even better with the marriage option. I was going to get married last year, but apparently someone thought marriage was just something to say while she didnt really intended so. o well.

i suspect there are a lot of people out there these days use marriage as a catchya phrase, and/or a phrase to keep the girl (or boy) you have around you. *don't say it when you don't mean it!*

too much ranting~

Photography, Bicycle, Motorcycle, Tennis, Badminton, Motorcycle, Bowling, Traveling, Engineering, Law
http://www.flickr.com/photos/opel/

When Obama initially defended Rev. Wright, I was behind him.  I belong to a black baptist church where things are often said in the pulpit that if taken in soundbites can be misunderstood.  And some of the Rev. beefs are very valid, but if there is a chance to get someone into the White House who actually cares about those things, and defended you in front of all of America.  Why would you put so much effort into destroying that person.  I have to wonder how much he really cares about those issues.  Put the pride aside and work for the better of all people.  He does not represent me.  He compared Farrakhan to E.F. Hutton "When he speaks, black people listen."  I sure as hell don't listen.  Anyway, I feel at times he has made some good points, but no one can fault Obama for putting some distance between himself and this preacher.

I really enjoyed your refrences to Shakespeare. And you are absolutely right.  I am 34 and when I came out marraige did not seem realistic, but now I am about to marry my girlfriend and it seems like the most natural thing to do.   

Wow. Young gay people making the same mistake as young straight people: rushing into marriage! Now that's equality. ^ ^ You'll know we have equal rights when I see divorced/separated twenty-something gay couples on Judge Judy fighting over their money woes; cash sums loaned through "verbal agreements". I know I probably seem flippant, but I'm actually quite serious. :) It's only fair, you know. And I think you're quite right about the perception a lot of straight people (and politicians) have about gay people still - specifically that homosexuality doesn't mesh with domesticity. After all, people can't possibly go out and dance and have fun and have a happy home life! :O

I guess I'm maybe in between generations. I'm 31 and I came out in 1994 (age 17). DOMA was signed in 1996. I think it was around this time that people starting thinking that same-sex marriage was a real possibility. Even straight people were thinking it, else why have laws about it.

I think DOMA raised a question among gay people, at least my age. Can we have marriage-like relationships without the piece of paper? Do we need a marriage certificate to live a married lifestyle?

So, there was this sort of rebellious attitude of "We'll show them! We can get "married" without their approval!" It was something that I could see in my future. When I found "the one", yes I could have that kind of relationship, with or without it being legal.

I agree with John about there being an adoloscent period for gays after coming out, regardless of age. I came out fairly early in my life, and I wasn't the only one in my high school. There are certain things I feel like I missed out on by not coming out even earlier, but I still had time to essentially be a teenager in the last few years I was a teenager. I.E. My friend and I would sit on the bench downtown and girl watch. It would start with trying to spot lesbians, but inevitably sank into a discussion a couple of straight adolescent boys would have.

I always had the feeling that this phase of my life would end and I'd find someone to commit to and we'd get married "in spirit" defying the laws of society, and live happily ever after. LOL Having that possibility or goal early on I think made me look for it.

And I found it when I was 20. Actually our 11th anniversary is coming up May 17th. Interestingly enough, this anniversary that we celebrate is when we committed to each other relationship-wise. We didn't move in together until August, 3 months later. We never had a ceremony. We celebrate the moment she asked me to never leave her, and I answered "okay".

For the first few years we definately felt we didn't need a certificate of marriage. It was just a piece of paper. But the inconveniences we've faced over the years have piled up. And while people may say 20 is too early to get married, I can definately say from my experience it was a lot harder not being legally married especially in my early 20s.

It might be easier for gay couples who come from more affluent families. But it is a real pain in the ass to live with a partner and try to go to college and keep the "household" affloat. I couldn't qualify for any financial aid as a legally single person under 25 because of my parents' income. I also needed them for student loans.

My partner had to support me, without tax breaks and without claiming me as a dependent. My partner didn't have health insurance, but even if she did I couldn't have been on it. Oregon had a healthcare plan for low income people, that as two single people we didn't qualify for, but as a married couple we would've. It took me a lot longer to finally graduate, and now we're faced with the dilemma of buying a home and qualifing for a home loan as two legally single (middle-class) people.

If a couple in their early 20s is going to essentially live a married lifestyle, then getting legally married would be best. My partner and I suffered financial hardships that I think would break up most couples, gay or straight, because we weren't legally married. Maybe our relationship is stronger for it, or maybe because our relationship centered on emotional commitment that it could survive while everything else was falling apart (like our electricity being turn off more than once).

There are a lot of discrimination going in this country based on single status. Singlism is at all time high. People who are married have more rights than anybody in this country and throw in the high income level and good credit rating. The same system that is to create tax-breaks is the same system that discriminates. Our laws aren't perfect and it should be. If Gay marriage becomes legal, a gay married couple will have more rights than single gay person like myself. It sucks. I agree to a certain instinct marriage should be open to all who wants to get married, it's a human right not a law for the priviliged. Yet, I feel people , especially the ones I know, only get married for those "marriage" benefits therefore allowing people to break open the martial affair so they can be with who they want to be with. People aren't getting married out of love their getting married out of greed and status.  I refuse to get married gain until the marriage laws change period.  More power to anyone who wants to get married.

I think this discussion on marriage is really interesting.  Miss Ketina--have you read Michael Warner's _The Trouble with Marriage_ or Lisa Duggan's _The Twilight of Equality_?  They talk about how laws that provide certain benefits to married couples place relationships in a hierarchy.  Moreover, they discuss how the debate over gay marriage has helped to normalize the gay movement by creating a kind of amnesia about the queer principles of the 1970s radical movements.  Duggan writes about how in the current cultural/political climate of neoliberalism, gay mainstream politics have not contested "dominant heteronormative assumptions and institutions but upholds and sustains them while promising the possibility of a demoralized gay constituency and a privatized, depoliticized gay culture anchored in domesticity and consumption."  I've heard several times that securing gay marriage will be the last major hurdle in our struggle for civil rights--and I think that's a dangerous attitude.  

At the same time, I still want to get married one day.  Sometimes it's hard to reconcile our intellectual understanding with our feelings and experiences.   

 i love this vlog

its always quality and never boring....and super gay... :)

whatever that means right...but im all into being SUPER gay now, someone told me i was too gay..and i should just wear a sign.  lol. I grabbed a stickie and wrote SUPER GAY and stuck it to my shirt and walked away.

So ....back to the NYT article. First of all, the NYT is not exactly a queer positive paper. Nor has it ever been politically correct. Often with misleading articles and false information with retractions published at the farrrrrr back on page gazillion.

The photo is offensive to begin with. Right away i read into it, this is  fluff piece to make gays seem like they all want to get married. Was this the 1950's wtih the mindless stepford gays.  This is so not gay. 

I think the writer missed the mark completely, and the chance to write a meaning piece.  A meaningful piece would have focused on, the truth.

The truth is that only in a FEW states and VERY FEW countries can gays get married. And that many gays are relieved to not have to fight for their human rights, and can settle into domestic bliss if they choose.

 The reality is far different.  I really don't know if i want to get LEGALLY married.  Living together in most advanced cities is enuff to constitute a legal partnership, should money or assests come into question.

The conclusion:

Marriage, whatever

the vlog, perfect

the article, a pile of b.s. 

Both of the links direct to the same article (Young Gay Rites).  It's a shame, I wanted to read what the fuss was all about.

Could somebody please post a link for the other story?

I have, I have heard the sermons, the speeches I have seen the spin, the lies about him & Obama's responses. If you listen to his NPC speech he is not speaking for the Sen. He is talking about & in response to the attack on the Black Church. I do not believe that Rev. Wright is inserting his ego into this topic he is merely in a position NOW to be heard. He is saying things publically that black Reverends have been saying privately for YEARS. He said in his NPC question & answer set that the reason why he is speaking out now is because the Black church is being called into question & he will not allow “his momma” to be called into question without speaking out against the lies & spin.  

I think rather than being an egoist; he is bringing back a much needed sense of pride in the Black church & awareness that many whites do not have. Though I have to say that I live in a small town in rural Indiana that happens to be where Indiana University is & I hear the same things said by Rev. Wright from the Unitarian church or for the Peace Collation or form average white 20 yr old peace activist here in my town. On average my white friends have said far more than Rev. Wright about the state of our countries race politics & actively try to do something about this problem. I did not think Rev. Wright’s words were shocking or racist I do not think he is wrong or should apologize for saying what he has said. I think he makes a clear statement in saying that Sen. Obama has nothing to do with his words or actions & that he bares no ill will towards the Sen. but that he has a higher calling that urges him to do so. When ever anyone gets a national & global microphone put in front of them they use it to express their opinions...it is human nature.  

Though I do wish that the Sen. would not "disown" the Rev. I can understand why he is doing so. A Black man in American with any level of authority has always had to be careful in America to not look like the stereotypical "Black Buck" which the Media is all too willing to paint Sen. Obama & Rev. Wright.  This controversy seems to me as a case of the "Uppity Nigger". White folks in/of/in control of the media just watching to see if these two black leaders are gonna "get out of line" so that we can metaphorically lynch them. The Sen. holds too much political & cultural capital to be "lynched", but an Ex-pastor of a Black Church that no one had heard of before this controversy started can easily take the fall for being too outspoken. Wake up America racism hasn't gone away it has picked up a mask. 

Not that long ago we were talking/the media was talking about John Hagee's support of Sen. McCain. A man who preaches Anti-Semitism, Anti-Catholism, & Hagee said Hurricane Katrina was an act of God, punishing New Orleans for "a level of sin that was offensive to God." He referred to a "homosexual parade" held on the date the hurricane struck and this was proof "of the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans. Why the hell aren't we talking about that here on this AfterEllen blog? Hum?Why aren't we focusing on the real problems in this country the negativism that the conservative republicans insist be our everyday diet on TV, in Movies & the news. 

I notice that in most of the LGBT community here on After Ellen & elsewhere are supporting Hillary Clinton. A woman that wants’ to claim the good parts of her husbands presidency, but denounce the bad parts, a woman that lies repeatedly & that major, national & global news sources keep catching her in over & over again. But let me remind us of the LGBT community that the last time a Clinton was in the white house we got "Don't ask, Don't Tell" & DOMA we got promises that were never fulfilled & promises that turned out to be outright lies.  

Yes, Sen. Obama has been a little standoffish with the LGBT press, but he has been the same with the black press, the Latino press & all other specialized press for one reason... that he wants to bring up our issues to the Major Press to talk about Human rights & Civil Rights in an open public forum instead of behind closed doors. To bring those topics that are hard to swallow for the "general Public" into our everyday speech. It is very easy to preach to the choir, but harder to talk to those who may not want to hear what we have to say.

 We can forget sometimes in our bubbles of our separate communities (lesbian, gay black, Latino) that the "others" do not think or speak of our issues unless it is to evoke fear, to motivate people to vote or belong to a political party out of fear of the “other”. Gay rights & Gay Marriage has been used for WAY too long as a tool to bolster the religious right into voting or to degrade socially progressive candidates. Sen. Obama refuses to play their games, by taking the "politics" out of politics & making our issues human rights issues.  Currently our rights as American citizens are not being respected. My religion has nothing to do with my rights as an American citizen. We need to move away from the idea that we are entitled to Gay Marriage. We are not, that term is a religious term. We are entitled to all the civil rights that the "union" between a man & woman under the law grants.I believe that with the legalization of Civil Unions with all the same rights of Civil "Marriage" we will be much closer to equality & much closer to the separation of church & state that was intended for this country, perhaps even doing way with the idea of civil “marriage” & only having civil unions for all gay or hetero. 

What is Hillary offering, more politico half truths that will be put aside for a bigger prize once she continues a dynasty in the white house.This country has suffered through almost 30 yrs of Bush Sr & Jr & Clinton (& yes there where major problems in the Clinton admin too) do we really wanna add 4 or 8 more years onto that when we have a chance to do something different? Why would we? What happened to the LGBT community that fitting in with the corrupt crowd got more important than real change? Didn't we used to march in the streets & hold protests as a means of letting the world know we were not going to be silenced? Now pride marches & rallies are about corporate sponsorship & drunken fun. 

Ms Sarah Warn, I read this blog all the time. I go to afterellen to be entertained & informed. I love Afterellen, I chat you up to my other gay friends who do not read,  but I will say if you are going to be political at least try to seem unbiased or at least present opposing view points, this blog with its Hillary poster behind them seems a bit too black & white. Actually suggesting that Sen. Obama seems weak because he can't control his former pastor from using his right to freedom of speech seems like Fox News Spin city to me.

Just my opinion.

~jmb