She Made Me Watch This! Gay vs. Lesbian TV Characters, or How We Spent Our (Very Short) Vacation in Palm Springs

First off...How wrinkly were you guys at the end of the day?

I enjoyed this episode more than some of the others just b/c the topics were of things I accually have knowledge on (not that the other ones are not good).

Yeah! You guys were all very entertaining!

Think from now on I will have to check out afterelton too!

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

Oh goodness...when you guys started talking about the lesbian w/ the bandana on "Brothers & Sisters," I was near tears from laughing so hard.

She probably had a chain wallet...

Hahaha.

I miss the bunnies and the clever anecdotes that you insert, but you guys should enjoy your vacation.

Love the collaboration.

~It means pride.~

I enjoyed your hot tub review and liked Michael’s and Brent’s take on the lesbian characters.  Nice addition to your weekly reviews. I was surprised though they didn’t mention Will from Will and Grace as a favorite TV gay guy.  I thought his relationship with the cute Italian cop was very touching and funny. Interesting. Anyway, thanks for all that hard work in Palm Springs you two. *snickers*  I’ve been there many times for both business and pleasure and always had a great time. 

Thanks.  Didn't even miss the bunnies. :)

You and Lori in a bubblebath?  That would be alright, as long as Lori gets to talk more!  You're really just using this to write off your vacation expenses right?  Work related?  Just kidding, great idea :)

db

I second the bubblebath idea! Anyway, I think this has been a best segment so far, and not just because you were both wearing (black) bathing suits, the topic was great, as well :).

Keep up the good work!

I thought this was a really fun vlog, the guys added a new insight which gave it a new dimension. speaking of which Lori looked like she had escaped from the Matrix to save the world which firstly coolness secondly appropriate as the Waschowskies (can't spell their confundin' name) were spoken of within the piece.

Thanks to all four of you for guiding us in our quest to watch tv that's actually worth while.

An interesting male gay character, is Kenny although only reoccurring in MY NAME IS EARL

"in the long run, we are all dead" J.M. Keynes

With as many gay men as there are on TV, I didn't realize that none of them had as developed a storyline as the VERY few lesbian characters there are.  Though, I have to say that I'm always reluctant to call Xena/Gabrielle a "lesbian couple," even though I watched it for that very reason.

 Also gotta ask, Does Lori+Sarah = Brian+Justin, but with a happy ending?

Happy to hear many of you liked the group discussion in this vlog! I thought you might find it interesting to hear a gay perspective on lesbian TV characters, especially because Brent and Michael are fairly enlightened on the subject for gay men (since they have to listen to me yammer on about it all the time :). We won't do this kind of combined video blog on a regular basis, but we may do it every once awhile, just for something different.

The bunnies will be back next time - it just wasn't a good idea to use them in the pool/hot tub or they all would have turned into Soggy Bunny.

Oh, and Finlay, I agree, Lori does look really Matrix-y in sunglasses. :)

Sarah

PS We don't censor comments on AfterEllen.com as a general rule, but I've deleted a handful of them on this post that were related to an inappropriate comment. Thanks to those of you who tried to help get the thread back on track. If anyone has a problem with this, please PM me rather than discussing it here.

I have a theory that Brian and Justin are the reincarnation of Xena and Gabrielle; either that or I watch too much TV:

...but that comment about the bandana and the wallet on the key chain REALLY pissed me off. WTF is wrong with a butch character? We have an entire cast of slim, femme lovelies on the L Word, and more svelt femme guestbians on other shows than you can poke a stick at, but you roll your eyes derisively at a slightly butch representation of lesbian sexuality. Yeah, sure, once you'd have thought that if TV was anything to go by, every lesbian was a truck driver and every truck driver was a lesbian, but come on! It's hardly the current cliche. And why the derision anyway? I'm all for some full on, in your face represenations of our sexuality, and losing some of the "Uncle Tom" mentality imposed on us by pop culture, that somehow it's more acceptable if we can "pass". I for one revel in and admire the woman who doesn't "pass", who doesn't compromise and who embraces the butch dynamic. As Le Tigre sang "You call it rowdy; we call it visibility..." More bandanas and more key chain wallets, PLEASE!

Love Pussy xx

But it still rocked & the weather looked awesome :)

I loved what you all had to say about Bound as it was one of the first gay films I saw when I was about 15/16.

I love this video blog <3

xox

Did all that actually happen all in one day? I like the multiple outfit...uh..swimsuit changes. Because I echo the first post, how wrinkly were you all after?

This edition was great. 

JMO why their are more lesbians then gay men on tv. Is the fact for some reason or another its more acceptable to see two women together then it is for two men.

...you know it is. Straight men fanticise about Lesbians and hang gay men on a fence in Wyoming. 

"Great minds think alike. They just don't always reach the same conclusion" - stolen from the Little Dutch Girl

..it isn't straight women causing the problems. 

"Great minds think alike. They just don't always reach the same conclusion" - stolen from the Little Dutch Girl

Yes, I also agreed with Sarah when she said that (4.10) about acceptance of lesbians versus gay guys! ;)

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

I also thought Bound was a great movie, and it has one of the funniest audio commentaries ever, at least once Jennifer Tilly arrives halfway through. :)

And Prey For Rock'n'Roll is one of my favorite movies. Gina Gershon, Lori Petty and Drea de Matteo in one movie... and Shelly Cole, who I have a soft spot for ever since she was in "Gilmore Girls"... True, it's violent, and I don't think Marc Blucas can act, but I still thought it was very well-written and the characters were very three-dimensional.

Great vlog, by the way.;)

There was plenty of gay male subtext on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I think people might assume that Andrew was totally out, but it was never explicitly stated (because it didn't really need to be). There was subtext between him and Xander, and him and Jonathan. To some extent between Andrew and Warren, but that was more one-way and it was apparent that Warren was straight and simply manipulating Andrew's feelings.

There was also some subtext on Angel between Angel and Spike.

Although I'm definately in the "Xena and Gabrielle are complete same-sex partners" camp, I don't think they can actually hold the title of "lesbian couple".

Why? Because a lot of Xena fans don't want them to. They maintain that it can be read either way, and I think that's a negative for lesbian relationships as implies that a lesbian relationship only exists if a third party validates it.

Gay people aren't ambiguous, they either are or they're not. It's not just because the relationship was subtextual, but because there was other subtext as well as maintext that contradicted the lesbian aspect. It was written to be ambiguous, not lesbian.

I don't think ambiguous is bad either, it's just not gay or straight.

Ya gotta love it when a lesbian is correcting two gay guys on the amount of gay male subtext! :)

"call me old fashioned but I prefer feminism that leaves a little something to the imagination!"

The USA show Psych also has a lot of gay subtext between the male leads. I think the writers have become pretty aware of the fact that a lot of fans 'ship Shawn/Lassiter and Shawn/Gus because they certainly tease around the idea of those relationships more now than they did in the beginning of the show.

I liked this episode very much, Brent and Micheal definitely added to the discussion because of comparing gays and lesbians on tv. I haven't even seen half of the series/movies you're talking about (because I live in Europe, don't have a TV..) but I still find if very interesting. In the post you mention their video blog and call it Two Gay Gays and it links to Sarah Silverman.. why's that? Not that I didn't find their blog on my own though :-)

Ahh

Ahhhh

Ahhhhhhh

0_0

I was 8 when the series started so I never really got into it. I was just rediscovering it recently so..

*rocks self like a traumatized person*

I'm not sure how I missed this bit of info given the popularity of the show, esp w/in the community. I guess my luck and lack of spoilers ran out today.

~

Other than that, awesome vlog. ;)

I love that you included Michael & Brent in this vlog.  I've missed them ever since BigGayPicture was shut down!  I'd totally support bringing them over here for a chat every once in a while when they get a free moment from AfterElton... :)

PS - Anyone out there looking for some good queer youth literature should check out Brent's books - Geography Club etc.  Really good... 

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