Unfortunately, I have. Although I think it may have been the kitchen, not the living room. I'm trying really hard to repress the memory and not share any of the details cuz I'm really grossing myself out just thinking about it.

I think it's possible that people give straight men more credit than they deserve. About thirty seconds ago my brother walked through the living room and announced to me "I'm gonna go up quickly and take a cr*p" In the spirit of not fulfilling the man-hating-lesbian cliche I'll tell you that if you're not related to the hetero male they probably put a lot more effort into hiding their grossness . . . I hope.

To everyone who finds the nail clipping unbelievable . . . . you're really lucky -- let's just leave it at that.

. . . I can't believe my first comment on the new and improved blog is about toenails . . . what the heck is wrong with me?

"...it is that it clearly showed that lesbians are not interested in "soft-core, girl-on-girl" versions of Melrose Place."

Uh. Yeah.  Seriously?  At the beginning of every show when they flash the FCC warning labels someone in the room I am viewing the L Word with denotes whether its a four label show; especially the nudity clause.  I'm a lesbian and I don't mind a little "soft-core, girl-on-girl".  I also don't mind if my straight girlfriends know this about me in fact I prefer they do.  I'm a lesbian, not a neutered, non-sexual woman.  I can be as lascivious as the next straight girl or guy.  Throw in directors like Jamie Babbitt and Angela Robinson, I'd take that version of Melrose Place anyday.

I live in the opposite world of you where most of my friends are straight women and men.  I have a few lesbian friends.  I don't think the divide is that great.  And I think the lack of representation of a "decent" heterosexual man is valid.  I don't believe Max can be that character either because his experience in life has been of a queer identity.  I understand how a woman who has not lived in the community wouldn't grasp that and could see Max in this role.  So perhaps there is a divide, but only because of experience.  I feel like your commentary is faulting the straight community for not getting it.  Then again perhaps I'm projecting my feelings about them not getting it onto you.  Hee.  Who knows.  I could probably go on forever and keep circling back around on my own words.  I tend to play my own devil's advocate.

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Why I Don't Sleep Much: Dorothy Surrenders

ok straight women, bace yourself for the truth:

straight guys *do* in fact clip their toenails in the living room.

my dad did it, my old (straight male) roommate did it...

but i have never witnessed a woman (regardless of orientation) or a gay man do it.

p.s. sadly, this is my first comment since the new blog as well :)

All of my friends are straight and we've discussed relationships and stuff and we came up with the conclusion that all straight women want a women in a mans body. . .all my friends complain about how there b/f's don't listen to them or like to do anything they like and never do anything romantic or anything like that so we've decided that straight women really want a woman in a mans body. . .thats my theory and i'm stickin to it. . lol. . . Frey's just mad because shes not gay

Frankly, I don't care what Hillary Frey likes or watches or writes about, not since I read an idiotic article she wrote for Salon about getting old (as she approached the big 3-0). I thought she might actually be refering to her IQ, as she then blathered for several more paragraphs about some inane cosmetics with ridiculously condescending names, like Hope in a Jar.    

Women like her make me want to pull my woefully out of style hair out.  Everytime I encounter one of their kind it makes me want to slap the hell out of Elizabeth Hasselbeck.  So perky, so prissy, so stunningly obtuse and willing to prove it every chance they get.  

Of course she thinks TLW should be all about what she likes to watch.  Her kind are so used to getting their way, they think everything is supposed to be all about what they want.  Wait, that sounds like....Jenny.  Maybe it isn't really a straight girl thing, maybe it's just a princess thing. 

The mere fact that Frey thinks TLW is an accurate depiction of anything relating to the daily lives of lesbian women, much less the transitioning of a F-to-M transsexual, speaks volumes about her credibility to judge anything.

i think straight women are a little clueless about lesbians. and most of them don't really get lesbian sarcasm...or maybe just sarcasm in general. i have straight friends who love the l word (even the sex scenes). i'm guessing some straight women just don't like the l word cause they feel intimidated by lesbians.

And the whole "Max the savior" thing...kind of freaks me out.

Oh...and Hillary Frey...clipping your toenails while watching the L word is a no-no =x you know why? cause it's distracting and then you miss really important things like...the L word being a show about lesbians. Not about saving straight men's reputation.

In the name of all my straight friends, no, that is not what straight women (and men) think of the L Word. What most of them think is that Season 1 was great, Season 2 wasn't that good and everything went downhill from there. They also think that Shane McCutcheon is sexy, and that Season 4 is a clear indication that Ileane has lost her marbles.

Ring any bells, anyone?

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. TerryPratchett.

Wow, you all seem pissed by her negative criticisms....I guess though we like to eat our own, we also like to defend our own? Cool! I'm no longer afraid of becoming a writer :)

Anyway, as a lesbian I am interested in a 'soft-core, girl-on-girl version of Melrose Place'; and I do think TLW has been taking cheap shots at the straight guys;

but the Max and SON comments are clearly an indication of the divide between straight and gay women

Frey: "On last week's episode, he was clipping his toenails in the living room. I have never seen a man do this in my life."

I have had the unfortunate experience of having witnessed a man clipping his toenails at the laundromat.  THE LAUNDROMAT!!!  And he didn't collect them into a nice little pile to be disposed of properly, he just let 'em fly. 

But I don't assume by this experience that all men are as disgusting and boorish, whether gay or straight.  And I did see something to the effect that the actor playing Henry wanted to do the toenail clipping, it wasn't written in the script.

I am a queer girl who has a very, very tight knit group of best friends. Two of us are queer and three of us are straight. My straight friends are wonderful people with whom I have never felt a vast and deep divide.

In fact, one of my straight best friends is severely addicted to The L Word and comes over to my house every week to watch it with me. I have my own set of problems with what has happened as the show has progressed and she has hers. But we still watch it and bitch together every year. Mostly, we don't bitch about the social problems that are or aren't addressed, it's the mechanics of the show. It's about the fact that characters will completely change for no reason or things along those lines.

Another of my straight friends majored in psychology with a minor in LGBT studies. She wants to help younger members of the LGBT community.

I think we need to give the straight girls a little more credit.

This is an interesting discussion. I think if we presume that these two writers are speaking for all straight women then we heading down a slippery slope. The queer community complains - rightfully so - about being lumped in as one large group without nuances, differences, and diversity. What seems revealing about these articles is that they represent simply two but divergent opinions about a show that obviously invites varying responses from its audience. Since it's fiction, does every queer character need to be positive and "represent" the community - if that's even at all possible entirely? At the same time, is it possible to do the same for straight characters? I would argue absolutely not and I would never expect any form of art to do so - how can it? Yes, Jenny is narcissistic and Bette is a control freak. And I'm pretty sure there are people out there who are narcissistic and controlling - some of the might even be *gasp* gay. And not all straight people saints-obviously. So if Henry comes off as a gigantic tool - there's an artistic reason (plot device anyone?). It makes for good drama, and I don't expect my reality or experiences to be reflected back to me on the television screen. If I did, I'd be repeatedly disappointed. Art can offer insight and forms of representation but cannot by any means cover everything all the time.

I don't necessarily think that the toenail thing was a blow against men, at least not in a vicious way.  I think it was... oh, what's it called?  The fact that Ilene can't develop a storyline to save her life.  And she used the toenail thing to create an arc that wasn't there, emotions that barely hit the surface, a relationship that was nothing more than a bunch of 'hi, how are you's' and 'oh, look - Angus is boinking the nanny.'  Yup, that's what it is.

I loaned my copy of season 1 to a straight friend and I had to pry it out of her hands to get it back. She loved the show, but stopped watching it when I did...I just recently broke the news to her about her favorite character...Even straight chicks loved Dana :(

Disgusting!  I'm a gay woman and I have to admit to having clipped my toenails in the living room. Hey! I was living alone at the time and I cleaned them up. Still disgusting. I agree with "shecallsherselfgarbo' that that scene was a bit of lousy writing to warp speed throw in how disgusting this guy was to Tina.  I've watched every episode of The L Word and since I admitted clipping my toenails in the living room I will admit to the fact that I've found it to be one of the worst shows I've seen in all my years of TV watching. And I've been in front of the tube a long, long time. I couldn't understand why Lesbians kept watching until I realized there was nothing else out there.

In my opinion, this year has been the best, not counting the first episode with Marina. God, what did they do to her sad reappearance?  Anyway. I don't know any straight women who watch the show so I really shouldn't even comment on this subject.  Oh, I did have a boyfriend briefly a century or so ago and he did clip his toenails in the living area.  There.

Again, loving this season! Glad it's been renewed.

I, too, am guilty of clipping my toe nails in the living room... and the bedroom. I live alone, but I'd probably do it if I had a roommate too. I agree, though, that the scene was used for rush-development. Hillary Frey (I keep thinking Hillary Fey, Mandy Moore's character in Saved!) must only date gay men if she's never seen a man clip his toe nails in the living room... I've seen enough for both of us!

For conversation's sake... where is the correct location to clip one's toe nails?

Neither article sounds that great, though the first is more offensively simplistic, embodying the worst type of journalistic writing (one where the writer pulled a topic out of thin air [and not even nodding to any definition of newsworthiness that journalists like to base their news decisions on]). When the author talks about how the show often "build[s] walls between the genders, between gay and straight," she's really revealing how much she dislikes it when straight people are not accommodated and appealed to. Moreover, she's revealing that she thinks that "minority" shows are okay as long as they include some (positive) portrayals of those in dominant groups; anything else would be too much for her? Ugh.

I can't even tell you all home funny I find it that everyone's talking about toenails . . . this is all the L Word's fault ::nods::

In the spirit of . . . I dunno, insanity (?) I have more to say about the toenail issue. Maybe it's not so gross to cut your nails in the living room (I'm trying not to be judgmental) . . . except that I'm still really grossed out by it. I don't like feet; therefore I don't like toenails. You guys who think it's gross that there was a pile -- would you rather he clean up his nail clippings or would you prefer stepping on one and having it stick into your foot?

"For conversation's sake... where is the correct location to clip one's toe nails?"

I clip my nails in the bathroom over a tissue and then I toss the tissue and wash my hands. I'm a little OCDish so maybe some people don't wash their hands, I don't really know. I've heard of people clipping their nails into the toilet too.

All this toenail talk reminds me of that episode of Buffy . . . someone here has to know the episode I mean (most of the time when I make a reference to something I've seen on tv no one knows what I'm talking about) in season four with the demon roommate . . . the glowey eyes and the soul sucking? I'm almost completely sure it's season four, it was when they first started college . . . and that was season four maybe even the season premier? I do have the dvds so maybe I'll look later.

Well, second post, more toenail talk, good for me . . . I actually clipped my toenails today lol um . . . I think I may have run out of things to say . . . I shouldn't post comments when I'm tired cuz I'm more rambley and talk-in-circley than usual . . . sorry about that.