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Veteran LGBT activist Phyllis Lyon tells us "It will be OK"By now, we've all heard the depressing news that the California Supreme Court has upheld Proposition 8, making marriage illegal for same sex couples. LGBT groups are already planning the next move, and demonstrations are planned in California and all over the United States tonight. (See 365gay.com for the latest updates on this news, and go to dayofdecision.com for information on rally times and locations.)
The little good news about this issue today is that the 18,000 or so couples who got married before voters passed Prop 8 are still legally married. The first of those couples in San Francisco was Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin, together for 50 years when they were legally wed on June 16, 2008. Together, they founded the Daughters of Bilitis (DOB) in San Francisco in 1955 (the first social and political organization for lesbians in the U.S.). Lyon was the original editor of The Ladder, the first nationally distributed lesbian publication in the U.S., founded in 1956.
Martin died in August 2008, and, at the time, Lyon said, “I am devastated, but I take some solace in knowing we were able to enjoy the ultimate rite of love and commitment before she passed.” Today, LATimes.com is running an uplifting piece about their lives together, their marriage and Lyon's opinion about what the future holds for gay rights. In the article, Lyon says that she and Martin hadn't originally been too concerned with getting married, focusing instead on the other forms of discrimination faced by lesbians and gays.
That changed when San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom took matters into his own hands in 2004, ordering that same sex couples who wanted to get married be issued marriage certificates.
Afterward, Lyon recalled, "We got home around noon. We looked at each other and said, 'We're all dressed up, what are we going to do?' I said, 'I don't know, but there's not a damn thing in the house for lunch.' So we went down to our favorite restaurant by the waterfront. It was all very peaceful and calm."
Martin and Lyon on their wedding day in 2008
Newsom's attempt to help same sex couples marry was soon halted, and Lyon says, "It didn't really surprise us when the court stopped the marriages. We thought it was pretty stupid and that they'd be sorry one day. We became part of the suit challenging California's ban on gay marriage."
When gay marriage became legal in California in 2008, they were once again the first same-sex couple to get married in San Francisco. Lyon says that Martin died "a married woman," before the passage of Prop 8.
A veteran fighter for LGBT rights, Lyon remains upbeat, telling LATimes.com: I'm optimistic about the future. Look at all the states that have now done this. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. They may not all last. But it's going to be all right. It may not be while I'm alive, but eventually it will work out that if two people want to get married, they can get married and it won't matter to whom. We went through this before with people of color. It will be OK. Hopefully, she's right. What are your thoughts on Lyon's prediction? Submitted by on May 26, 2009 - 2:54pm. |
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Agreed
As I've said to countless homophobes on YouTube (who hasn't?!) one day gay marriage will be legal and our society will grow and be accustomed to gay people and their lifestyle. It's happened with race and it will happen with sexuality. My only hope is that it's soon rather than later.
That picture of them cutting their wedding cake is enough to make your heart break. I don't understand how anyone can take offence to that, and stop that kind of love.
I take solace in Lyon's prediction because I know that she's right... I know it's only a matter of time.
I completely agree with her
I feel a little bit better
I feel a little bit better just hearing someone say that it'll be okay. Right now, it doesn't feel like it'll be okay.
To be honest, I think people should be way more concerned about equal housing and employment rights than gay marriage. Those are basic anti-discrimination measures.
This might be a blessing in disguise.
We do not want the courts deciding the issue. We want the people to accept our bonds as real and lasting. The combination of the shocking, though very narrow, loss during the general election and this, quite predictable loss in the California Supreme Court might be enough to galvanize supporters of gay rights to overturn Prop 8 at the ballot box.
I think a spotlight on this helps more than it hurts. The trend in popular opinion is going our way. Even here in Texas, marriage rights opinion polls seem to turn on how exactly the question is asked.
"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful. Hate me because I'm with your girlfriend." -The Ki
The courts are going to
The courts are going to HAVE to decide this, just as the courts had to drag the American people, kicking and screaming, into the 20th century in overturning Jim Crow laws. Because the people CERTAINLY were not going to do it.
It'll happen eventually.
Any competent lawyer needs only to point to Loving V. Virginia, the 1967 case which overturned bans on interracial marriage in several states. That ruling found that 'Marriage is one of the basic civil rights of man'. Their words. Which makes Prop 8 a violation of civil, and HUMAN rights, and an illegal law.
Ah yes...
But without widespread, though tepid, support of civil rights throughout the country, the court rulings would have caused long term backlash rather than being generally accepted over time.
I am not saying that the courts won't have a big part to play. I want acceptance, which no court can decide. Just as in the long and hard struggle for racial and gender civil rights, this will be won or lost by the people.
"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful. Hate me because I'm with your girlfriend." -The Ki
Acceptance isn't just going
Acceptance isn't just going to 'happen'. There needs to be a trigger.
Look at the civi rights movement. It TOOK the courts overturning segregation, FORCING the population to treat black Americans as equals, for the people to start regarding black Americans AS equals. It would not have happened without the weight of the law behind it.
It's the same thing. If history is any indications, people are NOT going to fully accept LGBT people, and gay marriage, until they have no other choice. Until the law protects them, and enshrines their rights, their equality in that very law itself.
It's always been LEGAL recognition, then acceptance. Never the other way around.
You actually think that
You actually think that it was the courts that caused people to treat African Americans as equals?
I'd like for you to meet my parents and my grandma. They didn't need the government to tell them right from wrong.
"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful. Hate me because I'm with your girlfriend." -The Ki
The majority of people,
The majority of people, yes.
True, there were a small minority of people who were actively opposed to the racist systems of the time, but most people were, while not exactly overtly racist, more of the attitude that 'This is how things have always been, and it works fine (well, it didn't, but they thought it did). Why change it?' The court rulings had to FORCE those changes, because the people were complacent. They were used to the way things were, and saw no reason to shake the system up.
Which is exactly the same attitude of many of those who supported Prop 8. They didn't necesarrily 'hate' gay people, but just did not want to shake up what was already in place.
People are uncomfortable with change, and they do not accept change willingly or easily. They basically have to be left with no other choice before they will accept new things or ideas. Look at the resistence to every new revolutionary technology that has come along. Same principle at work.
I have to disagree with you
I have to disagree with you about public opinion being so important.
The reason the courts making and enforcing these decisions is important, is because minorities will never win when up against the majority.
I am speaking about this from a Canadian perspective...when same-sex marriage was made fully legal in this country (and contrary to what a lot of international media seemed to think at the time) it was NOT widely accepted. I'd argue that it is in fact still a point of contention for a great many people in this country.
So what is the difference between us and the U.S. then? Well the difference is that our political leaders realized that to deny marriage to gay people goes against our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is a basic human right to marry whomever you choose.
And so they made it legal (and many still voted against it)....and now...years later it is generally a non-issue. Some people still disagree, many don't even care...and some think it's great. That will always exist...but the difference is that at least we can get married, regardless of what the majority thinks.
That is why to expect public opinion to turn on such a contentious issue...would mean that you would be willing to wait a LONG time for it to happen. Especially in a country that it definitely less liberal.
I wish you all the best of luck in your fight...and I will support you in any way you can. Because even though we have marriage...we are not complacent, nor should we be. I won't be happy until every one of my fellow glbtq people have the same rights I am afforded as a proud Canadian citizen.
~Renée
But in CA prop8 only passed
But in CA prop8 only passed by a few%. Its likely to be on the 2010 ballot when it should hopefully pass. (The No on 8 campaign was supposedly slack to begin with and many gay ppl did not vote and a lot more young voters will be able to vote/more ppl will change their minds in those 2 years. So in CA it could be the people not the courts, right?
Not in many places for sure but I think it will be great if the marriages are made legal due to a vote by the people in one state at least. It will show it isn't impossible and might help in other states and look better in history etc etc. Saying that I am sad about the result but sooooo glad that the 18,000 couples are still married. (I expected they would be, I think most people predicted this result out of the 3).Glad you're still married to Bridget Karman as well as all the couples :) I'm sure it will be legal in 2010, I'm sure, sure!
This will seem so stupid and crazy in a few decades, and so odd that there are like 'limited edition' marriages. To try and make some humour out of all the horridness, try putting that on a T-Shirt :p (all you guys who did get married): "C.A. Gay Married, 2008 Limited Edition" :) ??
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and should now be able to go to the US Supreme Court
Hope is the last to die...
... but still it is sad to see how much fighting it takes to have a chance like this. I know and certainly hope that one day is going to happen. It is unbelievable the levels of blindness that exist in the world. We all have the right to love and if we are enough priviledge to find it in life, who cares if it is different or same sex. Lets keep it on, one day we will get there.
Hoping for the best
It was a win-lose conclusion. We lost to overturn prop 8, but this means that we're going to push harder for the next ballot voting. I'm extremely happy that the 18,000 marriages stayed legal. I think they made the right decision to not overturn the marriages. One day less means a day more for rallying. And rallying is really fun, I met some some really cool people.
http://twitter.com/pestothepirate
One Big Rainbowrella For Next CA Same-Gender Marriage Challenge
I actually forgot about CA's ruling on prop 8. All afternoon I felt sad. I tried to come up with a rational explanation. I logged on to 365 and saw the news. I am glad that CA Supreme Court kept their own ruling in place by respecting pre-prop8 same-gender marriages.
Next time around bring all people together under one big rainbowbrella. It is the only way. More lessons to learn. This time, I see Californians getting it right.
Lift your head up high and win.
Be Blessed!
Darn tootin!
I'm so annoyed...
I so annoyed, but I think we are evetually going to win this battle. It broke my heart when she said it may not happen when she is alive. People should have the right to live their lives the way they choose, especially if it's not causing harm to anyone else.
" True enjoyment comes from activity of the mind and exercise of the body; the two are ever united" ~ Wilhelm von Humbolt
I'm disappointed in the Court's ruling, but, I am
happy that you and Bridget are still married, Karman.
Me too!
Thanks for saying that, and to everyone else who has supported us too. We are definitely lucky, but until everyone has the same freedom to marry it will be bittersweet for us.
Hopefully this sad news will inspire more people to come out and make themselves known to those who might otherwise vote against a whole population that they think they don't know. That's how long-lasting change will happen.
Ditto
I thought the same thing. First, this f'ing sucks. Then Thank goodness for Karman and Bridget and Ellen and Portia! :P
Thank you guys for sharing your marriage news with us. It's a nice reminder that you never know when you'll find your match and one day we WILL all have the right to declare it in law as you have.
From a CNN article, I took
From a CNN article, I took these few quotes:
"God didn't create the family that way," McPherson said. "You can't have a family with a mother and a mother, because [children] need a mother and a father to nurture their personality and their character."
My response McPherson.. then you need to protest to outlaw divorce. How many children already have two moms AND two dads? You'd need to outlaw step parents also. How many kids have one parent? How many kids have one mom or one dad? Or no parents??
As far as the god comment.. this country was founded in search of religious freedom. We have separation of church and state for a reason... to keep the churches from creating laws and governing the people with their views. It's as simple as that.
As far as the "this is what the majority wants!" cover.. well at one time the majority also agreed women couldn't vote. At once the majority thought inter racial couples couldn't marry. Don't even get me started on the way the majority treated blacks not too long ago... Even today, the majoirty still thinks Iraq is respondible for 9/11....
I like what Arnold said, because it is true..
"While I believe that one day either the people or courts will recognize gay marriage, as governor of California, I will uphold the decision of the California Supreme Court," Schwarzenegger said in a written statement.
And as far as their "redefining a word" and ruining the "sanctity of marriage" I ask them how their divorce rate is? Prenup rate? Adultry? Fix your marriage disfunctions and then come and tell me the holyness of your marraiges.
I'm sick of the religious talk. I'm sick of bigots saying "I don't hate gays, I like them. I just don't want them to be able to get married. And I'm not a bigot."
That's like opening the door for me on the 'gays only' side of a building entrance. Thanks. I think.
I can't have the same rights as you, but you like me. Oh, ok that helps.
Like what Arnold said, we will all have equal rights one day.. but it may be a long time. Till then, to allllll the republicans who keep saying to drop the fight we'll never win... we will only yell louder and protest harder. That's what she said.
"There would be no black and white, the world would just treat my wife right. We could walk down in Mississippi, and no one would look at us twice. That's my dreamworld." - Dreamworld by Robin Thicke
excuse my spelling..
Excuse my spelling ladies.. typing on iphones is not the greatest. I'm not as stupid as my grammer makes me out to be - I'mm 70% sure of that.
"There would be no black and white, the world would just treat my wife right. We could walk down in Mississippi, and no one would look at us twice. That's my dreamworld." - Dreamworld by Robin Thicke
Hate never wins!
Ladies, thank you for your kind words of encouragement. Karman and I felt very lucky to be one of those 18,000 couples and were happy to share the news with you all, who are an extension of our family.
Our families were very supportive (the picture below is from a wedding reception that my parents recently hosted for us), which gives us both hope that things will continue to change for the better.
My sister, who is also gay, is getting married this summer. SUCK ON THAT HOMOPHOBES!
Stay strong, let's fight!
Thanks for sharing that...
Cheers!
To the Both of you!!!!! Beautiful!
" True enjoyment comes from activity of the mind and exercise of the body; the two are ever united" ~ Wilhelm von Humbolt
that honestly
that honestly made me smile, thankyou for sharing this, you guys make a beautiful couple.
you just gave immense hope for a closeted, middle-eastern who doesnt believe she will ever lead a normal, domestic loving life with her long-term gf anytime soon.
thankyou bridget.
YEAH!
Yeah! Suck it, California Supreme Court! (Is it stacked with right-wingers, like your federal Supreme Court?)
Thanks for the A-dorable pic. And congrats to your sis too.
What Beautiful pictures.....
Bridget & Karman....and Martin and Lyon on their wedding day in 2008
Congratulations ladies
you certainly give us all hope .......the wind of change will come soon in California and we will all be equal soon throughout the world.... I often think of Harvey Milk at times like this and truly believe he was inspirational for gays and lesbians. Keep fighting the good fight.
I believe it will all be ok.
Soles
bridget & karman
I really needed to read
I really needed to read something hopeful after hearing the bad news today. I somehow feel better reading comments from others and the wise words of Phyllis Lyon (and looking at beautiful wedding photos of Bridget & Karman and Martin & Lyon).
Then a famous quote came to mind:
"The darkest hour is just before the dawn."
the photo
that photo made me feel warmth. nice lighting, awesome subject!
LOVE THE B&K WEDDING PHOTO
How sweet! =)
wtf?
I think it is wierd.
The system is sick
Ok, I am not some America bashing foreigner. I was born and raised in the US. In fact was 12th generation American born, DAR, cousin to Presidents, all of that. Before I migrated to NZ.
Now, having lived and traveled abroad, I can come to no conclusion than that the US legal/political system is deeply flawed, very poor at protecting human rights. New Zealand had homosexual law reform in 1986. That was 19 years later than England, (but 17 years earlier than the SCOTUS overturn of US state sodomy laws.) So not all parliamentary democracies moved at the same speed. But in each case, it was a one time campaign. The people did not have the option of taking away basic rights by popular vote.
Marriage is the same. Once done in Canada (and all the EU nations that have marriage equality) it is a done deal. There are no Canadian proposition votes to take away marriage equality. People accept the done deal and move on.
The US is unique in having an endless (forty years now) antihomosexual culture war. While I believe that Phyllis is right in the long run, the cost is high, and so unfair and unnecessary.
It is likely that there will be a multi-decade, 50 state struggle in the US before DOMA is finally overturned and Americans enjoy true marriage equality. In the meantime, how many more generations will be psychologically traumatised by the continuing abuse of the basic human dignity of LGBT people?
Basic human rights should not be subjected to popular vote. Full stop.
At times like this...
We as a community must raise our voices, stand together and fight for our rights! Nobody else is going to do it for us!
Two people of the same sex that love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together, should have the same basic rights as heterosexual couples do, under the law! For the life of me, I don't understand how that is going to hurt the community/world we live in!
Right now all I can think of is "GOT MILK?" Let's find the Harvey Milk that is every single one of us!!!
So True!
She is so right, and everything Lyon said is so true... Experience is knowledge...
Be honest to yourself!!!
Beautiful Pics!
I love the pics Bridgette, my other half and I are one of the 18,000 couples that got married in San Francisco in August 08', but we still feel awful. They say its legal but something does NOT feel right. Now we may have to spend more money to do it in CT... or MA.
we love you and Karman and never misses a brunch...lol
Be honest to yourself!!!
I am very greatful that the
I am very greatful that the 18 000 couples got married, their open celebration has given us a large foot in the door.
But the larger fight is always a a picture of the daily personal fight. And its not over and its a bit depressing and sad at the moment.
angry . angry and sad.
it was disappointing
I took a deep cleansing breath
and let it out in a sustained laugh when I read Phyllis Lyon's quip on her wedding day:
"...'We're all dressed up, what are we going to do?' I said, 'I don't know, but there's not a damn thing in the house for lunch.' "
Not so very long ago, the issues were as simple as keeping your job or your address.
Regardless of the legality, or constitutionality, or the separation between church and state... To attempt to force a rainbow-sequined-battering-ram down the throats of centuries old fears can only be a tremendous waste of time and resources.
I suggest a slow and steady education and elevation of the demographic that actually voted in numbers to defeat this proposition. And offer: A dream of elevating and educating every demographic to the nobility of dignity of all.
(Now then, what's for lunch...?)