Beth Ditto and the naked truthVocalist for The Gossip and out lesbian Beth Ditto is causing a stir again. This time it's for her audacious photo shoot and article for British music mag NME. The singer appears nude on the cover, and inside of the magazine expounds on a variety of topics. On new pal model Kate Moss and body image: "Kate is amazing. I spent one night talking to her and she just said the most amazing things about bodies. At first I didn't think I was going to like her, but she just turned up to one of our shows and said, 'Do you know what I hate Beth ? I hate it when people tell my big girlfriends, 'You have a beautiful face...' I mean, that's a really radical concept". "You can't hate a person for dieting, and you can't blame a person for feeling sh*t about themselves. You have to blame the machine that feeds it, the thing that makes people feel like that. There are lots of things that are part of that machine, and it's too easy to lay the blame at the feet of women - men don't know what it feels like to be a woman and be expected to look a particular way all the time. I had those conversations with Kate, and Kate agreed with me about it. She's a smart person."
On Paris Hilton: "I have this thing where I don't ever want to bad-mouth a woman. Except for Paris Hilton. Please tell me you saw that thing where she was crying in the newspapers, about her going to prison. It was so funny. I was laughing until I was crying."
On the fashion industry (and Paris Hilton, again): "If there's anyone to blame for size zero, it's not women. Blame gay men who work in the fashion industry who want these women as dolls. Men don't know what it feels like to be a woman and be expected to look a particular way. The Beckhams are part of the machine; Paris Hilton is part of the machine."
See more photos from the NME article here. Submitted by on May 30, 2007 - 6:15pm. |
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Good for her!
After years of struggling with my silent body issues, I applaud Beth for getting on that cover and letting the world see her in all her glory! Good for you! Represent sister!!!
I agree with the "gay man" observation
I agree with Ditto in that gay men (at least the ones I've met) have ridiculous expectations for women's bodies. I've heard one of my queens call a size-6 girl fat. I think they figure that, since it's easy for them to maintain their 32-inch waists and six-packs, and since they're almost women, it's OK for them to judge women as they would themselves. Some of the biggest machistas I've met were gay men. Only a two men I've met in my life (1 gay 1 straight) have ever admitted they were feminists, while almost all my gay friends were somewhat to very anti-woman.
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written and writing what deserves to be read.
Dude, you need to make some
Dude, you need to make some new friends.
None of my gay male friends speak ill of women. The straight guys I know tend to speak even higher about women (especially physically).
I won't pretend to know anything about the gay men in the fashion industry though.
..or men, gay & straight, need to be fairer to women all around.
Consider yourself fortunate that you haven't met the kinda guys I've met. Suffice to say that they're out there. (The fashion queens are VICIOUS.)
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written and writing what deserves to be read.
..
I am with Nat on this one, it fits my experience with gay male acquaintances. I did ask one of them, why do I feel that they are so unreasonably anti-women and he said that they feel inferior to and looked down by straight men and they want to kick the one group that is below them, and that group is the women.
yeah but that's nonsense.
yeah but that's nonsense. you can't blame an entire group of people in one industry, you have to blame the industry itself. you have to blame the advertisers, the photographers, the designers, the models...and the fact is, not all of those people are gay men.
i hate her "women aren't to blame for any of it" nonsense, because there are women in the industry who speak very openly against overweight women. what is worse, a lot of these women are in the media eye. are you seriously going to tell me that the british lady from vh-1's The Agency doesn't contribute to poor body image? all she does on that show is rail on women for being "too fat". janice dickinson couldn't possibly imagine a plus sized model ever winning America's Next Top Model and she's always very open about it. why can't these people be held accountable for their actions as well?
and yeah, i'm a gay man so perhaps i don't belong here - but i don't appreciate all of this queer on queer silliness. it is what segregates us and stops us from progressing together. beth ditto should know better than that, as a lesbian and feminist icon. i feel completely betrayed by her comments. claiming that men can't possibly understand body image issues is such a rash assumption, completely based in ignorance. how does she know what men are thinking? i obsessively worry about my body, yet i couldn't possibly understand. i'm self conscious about my stretch marks to the point where i think i'm going to be alone forever. but, i don't understand. she doesn't realize that big buisness dominate homosexual media images just like they dominate female ones. instead of being encouraged to purge after every meal i'm encouraged to obsessively work out to the point where i'm constantly in pain. and the images are everywhere. i go to myspace and i'm staring at two half naked men with greek bodies holding eachother and smiling. i turn on television and i'm bombarded with gay men who are nothing but eye candy. i go to the movies to see BrokeBack Mountain and see jake and heath cuddling up with their perfect bodies.
what she's doing when she says that MEN couldn't possibly understand is distancing herself from her original mission - fighting against fatphobia. you can't fight it with a gender divide. it isn't easy to be a fat man either, and until she realizes that she's not fighting a good fight.
so basically what i'm saying is -- pick better friends. don't base your opinion on your gay friend's comments, because they are ignorant. and believe it or not, individual experiences do not define human existence. don't make the mistake of pigeonholing gay men just because you know some gay men who fit that discription. don't be beth ditto.
Like I keep saying...
... it's all from my personal experience, and the nasty nasty ones are out there.
I also refuse to be silenced on my experiences with nasty and machista gay men just because you guys keep attesting to the contrary. Of course you would've met/are different. You are logged on a forum for strong, progressive women!
My point is that 1) male privilege fosters a class of disenfranchised and powerless class (i.e., WOMEN), and 2) gay men, in significant numbers, have proven no more progressive than my anti-feminism insecure guy friends, and lastly 3) women need to start creating more safe spaces for us so that we can start validating ourselves and our self-image based on what is right for US, not what is dictated to us by a male-dominated society.
Telling me that I need to make new friends who suit my beliefs is cute, but highly insensitive and away from the true issues at hand, which I've already discussed at length.
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written and writing what deserves to be read.
Health?
Look, I'm all for loving your body and looking the way you want to look, but what about one's health? Obviously, I don't know Beth Ditto's health situation, but just looking at her, I see very little muscle and therefore can only assume that she's not in too good of health. As a girl who is right now trying to lose weight/body fat in an effort to get healthy and not to fit into a certain size (and who recognizes that "sizes" are just arbitrary numbers anyway), it actually worries me that a woman would implicitly advocate being unhealthily overweight even while she brings up the dangers of being underweight. Taking care of your body and making sure you're in healthy shape shouldn't be thought of as selling out to the establishment.
"Out of the box is where I live." -Starbuck
Re: Health?
Blame straight men mostly for objectifying women
While I think gay men are well-represented in the fashion industry -- including being in positions of power -- I think we need to look at patriarchy (e.g., the control that all men have by the subordination and exchange of women) as the problem here. I really like what I've read about Ditto, save for this comment, which seems simplistic and stereotypical and too accepting of the cultural narrative that equality has been achieved.
straight men might objectify women...
... as in talk a bit "rougher" about women than most women can handle, (I personally think that a guy who talks objectivyingly about women can still treat them amazingly well, up to a point of adoration) but in my experience, most of them are way happier if their women have curves. I've gained this information both from conversations with exboyfriends and (straight) good friends. it's not the men who sleep with women that want us that way, but who it is, I really can't tell. maybe gay men is not so far off, because here in vienna the hate gay men have for lesbians and vice versa... geeeeez... makes you flee from the scene. it's ugly.
being healthy is one thing...
Like being too thin, being too fat is likewise unhealthy. Moderation is the name of the game...Beth Ditto is right about her principles but looking at her...it just isn't right to be too fat...it means ur not taking care of urself.
Just looking at her..i could enumerate possible health problems: heart disease, stroke, diabetes, osteoporosis, sleep apnea, etc...
i think some folks are missing the point.
some folks have mentioned the health issues involved with fat, and while you may have a point, there is a larger issue that beth ditto is attempting to address.
health is one thing. it's the self-hatred and body image issues that she is fighting. what if, instead of hating our bodies, we accept that our bodies are ours and we have to live with them?
what if no matter what you do...diet, exercise, the whole nine, you still end up fat? should you hate yourself and your body? or should you learn to love yourself, even if you are not perfect? these issues tie into larger issues of women's perceived self-worth, and they play out whether you are fat or thin. what beth is boldy addressing is learning how to love yourself, no matter what you look like, and to fearlessly proclaim your worth.
i do love me some beth ditto for sure!!!
you nailed it
Do the people who always feel compelled to point out the obvious well known facts about health and obesity really think no one knows these things? Is the idea that when we see a fat woman celebrating herself and her power that we will completely forget everything else we know?
Do they think a fat woman who stands up and celebrates her sexuality, her body and herself is doing something harmful? Would they prefer that she hid herself till she was more "acceptable" and healthy-looking?
do these same people think twice about anorexic fashion models on hundreds of other magazine covers and the messages about body imiage and health that sends to young girls and women?
If only more women were as courageous and self-celebratory as Beth Ditto.
High-five sister!
That's it!
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written and writing what deserves to be read.
dissapointed
I am shocked and dissapointed that there are so many women posting comments about the dangers of obesity in this context, Beth Ditto is not obese, I personally think that she has a beautiful body.
These people are just clinging to the taboo subject of the moment, rather than noticing the real issues that Beth Ditto is raising with these photos. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we should not let the media decide for us what that is.
Doesn't She Look Good!
Before I start, she looks blooming gorgeous!!
I understand why all the points raised in comments have been raised but if anything what the article and front cover of NME shows is a step toward the media reflecting the reality of what we everyday folk find beautiful. A step a way from the fantasy that has been prescribed for us by magazines, film and fashion. It is interesting that rather than seeing this as a bold move in the ever increasing battle to represent everybody ever, the image of body still outshines any other issue raised. Just shows it doesn’t matter if you are small, medium or large, or even super-sized someone will ALWAYS have a problem with you and in turn you might have a problem with you! How can we win?
Perhaps this is the dawning of a media where all sides of the spectrum are reflected by the same medium?! The showcase of everyone from Britney to Beth! I am well excited if I am honest!!
And it’s important to remember that for years the greatest fashion magazine power houses have been putting models on covers that have suffered from many health issues that are both physical and mental. And to be perfectly honest I would rather my daughter was over-weight and happy with that rather than a cocaine user like Miss Moss, no matter how good a dress looks on her...
I am going out to buy me NME this evening :D
it's about time.
Cheers, Beth Ditto
beth ditto rocks my world,
beth ditto rocks my world, and has done for 4 years. Her being nude on the cover just rocks it that bit harder.
she's not promoting being unhealthily overweight, she's promoting the fact that you should embrace what and who you are, no shame, no fear. Credit in the straight world is over rated, but it's about frickin time.
Good for her and all of that crap, but...
wow
my body is firm...