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Women who are just a little bossy

An AskMen.com article by Paul Thompson titled "Why Women Can't Be Bosses" has been making its way around the internet, offending everyone in its path. In short, it's either completely, appallingly misogynistic drivel, or a failed attempt at sarcasm. It's hard to tell.

The piece starts off talking about how women have "rallied against alleged improper treatment within the workplace" since before the dawn of the 20th century. That's enough to make you want to stop reading, but it gets worse:

The fact is that the glass ceiling exists for a reason — a very important reason. If the glass ceiling was removed and women were promoted to ubiquitous positions of power, the economy would grind to a halt. And not that "The City, golden parachute, slight downturn" we’re in now, but a proper, Planet of the Apes-style apocalypse.

Thompson goes on to list and explain his various ridiculous reasons why women can't be bosses, including:

We can't control our emotions: "every woman in a position of authority runs her department or team like you’re in a relationship" and we take the fact that we can't control our emotions out on everyone in our vicinity.

We all have Queen Bee syndrome: Thompson cites a Workplace Bullying Institute study that says 40 percent of workplace bullying incidents are instigated by women. So, that would tell us that the other 60 percent is initiated by — right. Thought so, Paul.

Business was built by men, for men: This reason features this gem: "Take a look at the trouser suit; seriously, what the hell is that? No one likes the pants suit. You know who wears a trouser suit? Hillary Clinton." Clearly, this guy hasn't seen photos of Ellen and Portia's wedding. Ellen in a Zac Posen suit: pretty hot. Any suit, really.

Besides, what do clothes have to do with business, anyway?

We hold grudges: Thompson say, "Everything done is a learning experience for personal growth, not a personal attack that needs to be avenged with the same ferocity of a mother bear defending her cub. ... Women would rather act like petulant children, fighting the last battle, than look forward to the next obstacle." Not true. I mean, we managed to get through this garbage just fine.

Besides, maybe (hopefully) this is just a ill-conceived joke, attempting to point out how preposterous these ideas are, that sadly a lot of people still have, despite there being plenty of female bosses around, both in the real world and on TV and in films.

Bette Porter, for example, is one classic lady boss, if you ask me. And not just because she's gay and wildly attractive (though that doesn't hurt). She didn't fit any of the stereotypes Thompson mentions--especially when it came to her pantsuits. Seriously. I don't think there's a woman alive who can pull off a suit better than she could.

Speaking of gay lady bosses, what about Sheila Faxton (Lorraine Bracco) in the movie Switch? She was the head of cosmetics company (not a business built by/for men) and went on a date with Ellen Barkin (who was actually a man trapped in a woman's body, Freaky Friday style).

Miranda Bailey on Grey's Anatomy may be nicknamed The Nazi, but that's just because she's serious about medicine. She's no Queen Bee.

And, while we're on the subject of medicine, how about Cuddy on House? She runs the whole hospital, and puts up with House's crap time after time (obviously, she doesn't hold a grudge).

Jada Pinkett Smith will also be playing the head of the nursing staff at a hospital when Hawthorne starts next Tuesday. (I'm wondering if she might just be able to rival Bette in the pantsuit department. Possibly!)

Thompson may have also heard of this little series/movie called Sex and the City. Full of ladies in charge, like Samantha, who ran her own PR firm; Charolotte, who ran an art gallery; and Miranda, who made partner at her law firm (and then Carrie was just sort of bossy, in general).

Also, let's not forget the ultimate female TV boss: Angela Bower on Who's the Boss? Judith Light's character was a groundbreaking one for many reasons: she was a single parent, a career-woman and had Tony Danza as her housekeeper (and was obviously pretty nice to him).

Some other great bosses: Lorelai Gilmore (Gilmore Girls), Brenda Johnson (The Closer), Liz Lemon (30 Rock), C.J. Craig (The West Wing), Mia Mason (Cashmere Mafia) and Dr. Camille "Cam" Saroyan (Bones).

Who are some of your favorite lady bosses from film or TV that set a great example?

Bikerchick's picture

Great article

I wonder what men like Paul Thompson try to get out of writing such a misogynist article.

I agree with everything you wrote, and almost broke a rib while laughing about the 40% comment on the Queen Bee syndrome. I do have one criticism though: how about giving some Real Life examples of women in charge instead of sticking to women playing the roll of someone in charge? 

 

How about Ursula Burns, the first female African-American to lead a Fortune 500 company? Or Susan Arnold, head of Procter & Gamble? Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany, and, might I add, doing one hell of a job?  Cynthia Carroll, head of Anglo American PLC? Oprah Winfrey? Indra Nooyi, PepsiCo? The list is endless..

 

(of course, none of them are quite as goodlooking as Dean Porter ;) ) 

Sarah Warn's picture

Tying it into the site

Since AE is an entertainment site, we try to find a way to relate stories like these (that aren't at all related to entertainment or the media) to the focus of the site. There are plenty of other sites you can read that highlight the achievements of women in business (including — shameless self-promotion alert — my girlfriend's site SmartLemming.com)

But by all means, feel free to talk about women in business or your own experiences with female bosses in the comments — I myself have been lucky enough to work for several great female bosses (two of whom have been gay).

Bikerchick's picture

...

Point taken! :)

 

 

(and having a look at the - shameless repeat of promotion alert - SmartLemming.com website)  

munky's picture

I'm not quite sure about that

because afterellen came about after ellen went from being gay in the fictional entertainment world to being gay in the real entertainment world.

Women bosses in the entertainment and the media are included in the wider category of women bosses in business. So I'm not sure I understand your point.

I don't honestly understand what is the problem with, like bikerchick suggested, including women who make good bosses in real life, in the entertainment industry or the media at large? Especially when responding (of sorts) to such a sexist article. 

I don't see how it will prove our point (in this debate with the original article) that women make good bosses if we stick only to example of fictional bosses. Tongue in cheek is fine and I definitely agree that it makes a serious argument even more powerful, I just don't understand what was wrong with talking about Better Porter as a boss AND Oprah Winfrey or Indra Nooyi as bosses? 

 

 

Jeannette's picture

Hillary Clinton?

Yah, even though Paul so eloquently (or not) made a joke at her expense, Hillary Clinton runs the whole State Department.  Talk about a woman in charge.
Hollywood Marie's picture

YES

Uh...not a very good point, dude.  Hillary Clinton is the opposite of his point, so that leads me to believe this MUST be satire.  Plus, I totally find her attractive (not that that's at all related to being a boss).  And after hearing about Obama's latest DOMA bs, I'm even more convinced (if I wasn't already completely convinced, which I was) that she should have been President.

 

Plus, who the frack reads "ask men" anyway?  I wouldn't ask men anything.  ever. 

Jeannette's picture

Yep!

I totally agree with everything you said.  Especially with the not asking men part :)

PS - Under the Hillary-run State Department, Diplomats have now been granted same-sex partner benefits AND they've denounced the anti-gay violence in Iran.  Looks like Hillary's done more for us as Sec of State than Obama's done as President!

LiveFree's picture

word; unfortunately gays

word; unfortunately gays (and women) gave Ozero a blank check in this past election, and they're going to be paying for it for the next 4 years. and RE hillary's pantsuits, don't you know that the very most important thing in the world about any woman is whether or not Joe Dickhead wants to fuck her? who cares if she's secretary of state (and should have been president), a doctor, a lawyer, a CEO, or Mother-freaking-Teresa, if Joe Shithead doesn't want to fuck her, she doesn't have a right to breath.
Brutal_Romance's picture

i agree

for this particular article and argument, 'real bosses' should have been mentioned.

but still, good article. i just cant believe the amount of bull featured in it, wonder why would anyone take him seriously?

Lauren's picture

Miranda Bailey = Best. Boss.

Miranda Bailey = Best. Boss. Ever. 

Go here for my view on all things lesbian: http://allthingslesbeau.blogspot.com

Melissa Hsu's picture

"You should try it in heels."

Joanne from Rent.

I actually have to halfway agree with Paulie boy on one thing, and that's the pantsuit. Let's face it, it's just more fun to see the girl beat the boy when she's wearing a skirt and high heels. I love that kind of irony.

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SpecialK7's picture

Speaking of Portia

What about her character in Better off Ted?  She was a great boss and definitely didn't let her emotions get in the way :)
polkadotwings's picture

Veronica

I definitely agree with this one.

I also agree with someone above who said Joanne from RENT. She's not an actual boss, but she's a strong woman and a lawyer at that, so it's close enough lol.

Bekkah's picture

hmmmm....how interesting.

hmmmm....how interesting. The paragraph regarding how women can't control their emotions is conspicuously shorter. When I initially read it, there was a wonderful gem comparing Bhutto to the Dalai Lama and how because Bhutto couldn't control her emotions and insisted on returning to her homeland, she was in essence asking to get herself killed.

How....charming. 

And people wonder why feminism still exists.

lleesmith21's picture

Hahah....

Everytime I read an article like this I'm always reminded of how small bigots' brains are. Actually, I won't mind at all if people who promote these kind of misogynisctic mindset cease and desist, literally.
Captain Jax Havok's picture

i loved loved lovedddd

kelly rowan as kirsten cohen on the OC! :D she played the head of the newport group ^_^ talk about a milf also ;] XD<3
LolitaVida's picture

Yes M'am

The fact that Dean Porter actually slept with her TA makes her, in my humble opinion, the best boss ever. I'd work under her anyday.

 ~Lolita

"But to see her was to love her, love but her, and love forever."

elle s's picture

It's all about Cuddy and

It's all about Cuddy and Lorelai for me!
chelc's picture

Cuddy

Cuddy, i think, is a great boss. However, as much as i love her (shes the hottest boss i wish i had), shes not very forceful. She lets House do pretty much whatever he wants cuz shes in love with him. She stops him sometimes, but he could get away with murder in that place lol. That being said, she doesnt actually fall into any of the categories this guy mentioned, so shes still another female boss that proves him wrong.
leire's picture

what a minute, Paul.

Dear Paul,

 

You see. For centuries,  we have been relegated to being just housewives or nuns.

We haven´t really been  in charge of anything. This is all new to us.

So please forgive us if you do not think that we are doing a great job.

But do you know something? I think we are doing ok, great in fact (considering how

new all this is to us as I said  before).

We are learning very fast and you see, some of us  are working in a mens world and 

that´s kind of scary. We have to adjust ourselves to your rules and laws.

 But do not worry, we will be perfectly well in a few decades or even less, a few years

maybe.

Most of the bullying and bitchiness among us women will go away because we will be 

used to be in a business world. A place that won´t be new to us anymore.

I guess that it might be cool just to be there all the time and not having anybody 

looking over your shoulder, questioning and judging you. Cheers Paulie

 

runtothesun's picture

Yum!

I love a bossy woman.  This list brings the hot.
Valium's picture

I agree

There's nothing better than a woman with a little boss in her.

Knightwolf's picture

Not Jimmy Smitz...

actually, it was Corbin Bernson's character that was in Ellen Barkin's body. Don't know why I remember that, but I do.
Kris's picture

Nope, it's not possible

Nobody can rival Bette Porter in a pantsuit.
rebelzz's picture

Actually, anyone of the

Actually, anyone of the writers in AfterEllen can out-write him in a minute. He's not even funny. :) Poor soul.
L_Rae's picture

Here's the answer

I admit that I chuckle when people from many of the sites I've seen about that reference the article ask as to why the site keeps Paul around.  I would like to ask them all as to how many people visited the site to read the article?  As jamie murnane here has pointed out, the article has been making it's rounds.  The more people hear about the article, more check out the site.  The more people check out the site, the more money AskMen.com makes from it's sponsors.  Ergo, WE are the reason Paul continues to be employed.  

Don't you just love to hate underhanded business practices? 

Kay's picture

where to start...

Catherine Willows (Marg Helgenberger) on CSI. yes, she was only recently promoted as supervisor of the Graveshift, but face it - she was still the boss even when Grissom was in charge.

Captain Kate McCafferty (Bonnie Bedelia) on The Division. 

Dr Kerry Weaver (Laura Innes) on ER. She was always queen bee of the ER, IMO. 

 

Eva's picture

Seriously..this can't be serious.

This article has to be satire. I really think it is.

Reading the comments posted under the original article makes me happy though.

It seems as if nobody agrees with the author! Maybe that was the whole point of the article?

 

Betty's picture

Maca on Hospital Central

Whenever talk about female bosses, I think about TLW's Bette and Hospital Central's Maca. They are both gay, gorgeous, tough and control freaks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last time I was inside a woman was when I visited the Statue of Liberty."

Odyssey's picture

Ridiculous man!

Unfortunately this is somewhat typical of the male reaction to women in the workplace. Having said that, I am lucky enough to work with many wonderful men who are pro-women, pro-gay, liberal in almost every sense and are great examples of the male of the species!

I have though, in other jobs, gotten the 'you're over reacting, you're female and irrational' stuff from people. Usually this has been because I've shown them up, made them look a bit stupid or uncovered their mistakes. The immediate response of these sort of guys was to try to make me look stupid in order to distract from their own failings.

Sure, business was built by men, for men. So were most things in this world, and women have very rapidly within one century moved into that sphere.

I am in an engineering job, in a small company with 8 engineers. How many are women? 4. Amazing! In 2009, this is a great point to be at. (Having said that though, it's an industrial research company, and women are more common in the academic industry!)

Nurekia's picture

See if you can spot my response lol

I had to go read the full article and make my own comment. Hope the author reads it and thinks on it for a while. I am glad to see the vast majority of respondants there think the author is a dumb arse as well.
Gin's picture

Let's not forget

Simone Lahbib as Helen Stewart in Bad Girls. Bossy, righteous and totally and utterly gorgeous.
scullylover71's picture

Gin your talking my

Gin your talking my language!

Hollywood Marie's picture

Once again, survey says, "Patriarchy"!

If women were doing a shitty job (which we aren't), it might be because it's a "man's world" or whatever bullshit was written in this actual article.  So, thanks for proving our point for us.

 

My boss, an African-American woman, is my inspiration.

Forza Roma's picture

Dana on (the all-too short lived) Sports Night

Hot. Bossy. Damn good at her job. Closeted lesbian (I'm convinced).

But not even the lovely Felicity Huffman can compete with Bette's pant suits.

aeryn20's picture

hmmm

now i havent read the whole article and it does sound like said writer has made some stupid arguments and soundbites to get publicity for the site he works for but I think it would do women well to not just dismiss out of hand certain things.I think another response further up sums it up for me, women do not yet make great bosses because we havent been bosses for as long as men have, that doesn't mean we won't just that we aren't yet. Having had a mixture of female and male bosses I know the pro's and cons of each and I would say they were about equal but the problem is that things men get away with as bosses women don't for example my first reaction to bette porter being put forward as a good boss was nah no way, she's emotional, belittling, she has sex with someone she really shouldnt in her place of work etc and then i realised men can be just as bad and yet we forgive it and somewhat expect it of men to be such a way whereas women have to be whiter than white or they are seen as a failure as a boss. There is 1 thing I would like to point out that I have noticed about my female bosses though that they all seem to try too hard, men seem more relaxed in power, female bosses tend to make enemies of staff because they feel like they have to be on your case all the time or things will slack because you don't respect them as much whereas men seem to believe in their divine right to rule and so don't have to try so hard, like it comes naturally to them, I think this may again be due to the fact that women haven't wielded power for so long. My last point is that britain had the worst example of a female boss in margaret thatcher and the country has still not recovered, so for me I am still reluctant to believe that women in britain are on a par with men when it comes to being bosses but i do believe they are catching up I am unsure about the rest of the world.

~sarah

LiveFree's picture

give it up; i think you're

give it up; i think you're projecting.
Bikerchick's picture

Oooooh!!

CATFIGHT!!! 

 

 

 

:-D 

 

*Bikerchick saunters off to make popcorn* 

Melissa Hsu's picture

I find a lot of truth in his article :(

In my last positions, men and women co-workers were bullies and unbearable, but I have found that women colleagues made hostilities 1000000x worse than the men.  Whereas male colleagues/superiors made my job annoying, women colleagues/superiors induced me to quit - not only did they make my everyday life threatening, they would also peck at my own insecurities.  Women, I have found, are way more incisive and vicious then men when they want to "bring somebody down."  As a result, I have thrived under male supervisors and crumbled under female ones.  

In MY view and based on MY experiences, when women are threatened, they do everything to CHANGE you.  When men are threatened, they take you out to coffee to figure out if you truly are a threat or not.

At the risk of being incredibly unpopular, I will have to agree with this article and affirm it's not entirely mysoginistic.  :( 

...Oh, and I should add that in all of my previous 3 jobs, I worked at VERY "Corporate America"  companies.  Not to perpetrate the stereotype further, but I think women who work in NGOs/non-profits/non-Corporate America are more professional/less emotional.  I don't think this is anti-woman, but rather a call to look at how we're socialized.  Corporate America was built by men for men (the creatures w/ only one "X" chromosome, the one that allows complex emotional reasoning), so women are unfairly left out of this game.  As a result, I have found that the women I've interacted with can't really handle it because we don't understand its unspoken intricacies.  (In my view, a lot of human interactions in Corporate America are unspoken.)

Anyway, it's a debate that deserves more merit and sociological methodology than a mere BS essay put together that sounds more like a venting letter to a buddy than something to be taken seriously by the mainstream.   

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Elena's picture

Zac Posen

i loved the article. it was spot-on, i felt. but, i'm pretty sure the designer Ellen is wearing is Zac Posen not Zoc lol.

Unless she's going out in knock-offs these days (damn this recession!)

desthelez's picture

Um..

Isn't that why we don't "ask men"? 

Men who think like this should be fired from whatever position they hold. You don't want this so obviously misogynistic infection to spread, do you?

 

love and lust make fools of us all, but where would we be without them?

hippyvieja's picture

Julia Sugarbaker on

Julia Sugarbaker on Designing Women
unlucky13's picture

I was thinking the same

I was thinking the same thing!  Julia Sugarbaker from Designing Women!  Loved that show.....eek now I'm dating myself lol
Mély Mel&#039;eau's picture

I love Dean Porter but...

I do remember trying to sabotage Jodi during a meeting s4 because she wasn't happy about Jodi seeing other people. So hmm yeah the whole not holding a grudge part is def. not Bette's forte.

*partir en premier ne veut pas toujours dire arriver en premier*

Wondergirrl's picture

I don't have much experience working for a female boss

I've only worked for a female boss for like 2-3 days but I liked her. I wish I could work for a female boss.I'm in architecture field so it is nearly impossible to find female bosses :( It is a field still highly dominated by men. I'm really tired of working for men because they simply can't communicate! They can't express what they really expect out of me and when it comes to laying people off they suck. When something goes wrong they just drop off the face of the earth and don't return your phone calls.Cowards..Men can be more ambitious but females at least can communicate verbally and I think it is the most important thing for a business to be successful!

 

"I believe that I will be with one person for the rest of my life, but that person will be a woman." Luce-Imagine Me&You