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So gay/So not gay — the entertainment versionIs there such a thing as entertainment gaydar? Recently I came across an old friend on Facebook, whom I hadn’t seen in over a decade. Over the years, I’d wondered if perhaps she was gay — and once she had added me as a friend, I'll admit that I clicked over to her profile, curious to see if there would be anything about her sexual orientation there. While there wasn’t anything explicitly stated, I did see with interest that she listed The L Word as one of her favorite shows, and Brokeback Mountain and Chasing Amy as two of her favorite movies. Now, entertainment gaydar, like any other gaydar, is based on stereotypes — and thus is bound to be somewhat unreliable. After all, there are plenty of straight people who like both The L Word and Brokeback Mountain. (And, actually, I think disliking Chasing Amy is probably a clearer sign of being a lesbian than liking it.) Nevertheless, this whole episode got me thinking about what a person’s tastes in entertainment may or may not say about her sexual orientation. And, using the popular AfterEllen.com forum thread "I’m so gay/I’m so not gay" as an inspiration, I decided to see how my tastes would stack up in the “stereotypically lesbianish” department. To start off with the “I’m so not gay” category (hey, I may as well get the bit that will make me unpopular out of the way first): 1. I'll admit it — I don’t totally get the Tina Fey thing.
The fact that scribegrrrl, Dorothy Snarker, and Sarah Warn are all fans is enough to convince me that I must be missing something here — and who knows, maybe one day I will see the light. But I’ve seen 30 Rock, and the thing that amused me most about it was Alec Baldwin. (Who, whatever else he may or may not be, is definitively not lesbianish.) 2. I don’t watch The L Word.
The women on The L Word may be gay, but I’ve discovered that that, in and of itself, isn’t enough to make me identify with or deeply care about them. A little good writing goes an awfully long way. 3. I think Desert Hearts is a snooze-fest.
I get that it was hugely important — particulary in 1985 — to see a movie where the women weren’t punished or stigmatized for being lesbians. And I do think that Patricia Charbonneau’s character is kind of cute. But to me, it’s almost like the filmmaker was so caught up with showing Vivian and Cay as normal, healthy characters, that she forgot to have anything much actually happen to them. The fact that they fall in love, while great, is not really enough to sustain a 96-minute movie. 4. I don’t — gulp — actually find Ellen DeGeneres that funny.
On her old sitcom, yes. In her Phone Call to God, genius. And — forgetting about comedy for a moment and talking in terms of courage and integrity — definitely. But when it comes to her current talk show, or her Oscars hosting ... well, truthfully: not so much. 5. Xena who?
I have never seen a single episode of Xena: Warrior Princess. There, I said it. Now, in the “I’m so gay” category: 1. Mariska and Katee are hot.
In real life, I am vehemently anti-gun, but one second of seeing Mariska Hargitay in Law and Order: SVU (cropped hair, long coat, tough as hell and weapon at the ready) was enough to show me where her, um, ardent lesbian fanbase comes from. Ditto one picture of Katee Sackhoff in Bionic Woman. 2. I love watching Jodie Foster, Kristy McNichol, Ellen Page, and Jo from The Facts of Life.
Sigh. If only Family had been shown on U.K. television when I was a teenager. I think I would have come out instantly, just in the hopes that Kristy would wear a tux and take me to the prom.
3. Bring It On made me gay(er).
Missy Pantone, you are truly dykedelic. (Also in the “movies that made me gay” category, see Girl, Interrupted.)
4. Lesbian subtext rules.
Yes, I will get interested in an otherwise worthless program (Gossip Girl, I’m looking at you), just because it seems like it might feature a little ... extra chemistry between the female leads. 5. No, I can’t take a joke.
So, I confess — the militant humorless stereotype is kind of true for me. I will even get annoyed with my beloved Jon Stewart — despite all the pro-gay points he has earned over the years — if he makes a crack that I think is anti-gay or just insensitive. Are your tastes in entertainment so gay, or so not gay, or a little of both? Submitted by on March 11, 2008 - 5:09pm. |
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News, Reviews & Commentary on Lesbian and Bisexual women in Entertainment and the Media
thank you!
that Xena thing
yeah, I've never watched Xena either... I never got into it! And while we're at it, I wasn't a Buffy fan, either. I've just watched exactly two episodes of Buffy...
Everything but Xena!
I'm with browne on all the so not gay points - and don't even get some of her so gay points - It is so great to hear someone else talk about not getting Tina Fey, Ellen not funny on her talk show (are you in my mind?!?)...but with XENA, no way!! I used to schedule my gym workouts around watching Xena on the weekends! And I wasn't even aware of my sexuality then!!
Talk about ingrown?!?
Love never loses its way home. Remember...its about the journey, not the destination
Thank you for showing another side
_ _ _ _ _
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." (Dr. Seuss)
Yay for not being Gay for Tina Fey!!!
Tina is funny, but I draw the line there. And I always turned the channel whenever Xena was on.
omg!
browne!! no tina fey???? no xena??? !!!
but except for those two points I generally agree with you.
(no tina fey???!!? no xena!??!? )
Thanks for sharing and I respect your opinions.
(whaaaT???)
:P
omg, inbd
i'm vaguely gay
i've never seen the l word, desert hearts, or xena and don't really have any desire to.
but i LOVE tina and olivia benson makes straight girls swoon, so really what chance do the rest of us have?
on a related note, mariska hargitay, oddly enough, does absolutely nothing for me -- except ping my gaydar.
oh! and i LIVE for subtext. has anyone else been watching criminal minds this season?
has anyone else been
has anyone else been watching criminal minds this season?
YES! I love that show anyway, but man, they are actually in love.
...Buffy
*Whispers*
not repulsive, just boring.
Buffy
ARE YOU TOTALLY
ARE YOU TOTALLY DERANGED???
Or are you just saying stuff for 'shock' value?
Lets forget about the fact that the show had openly gay characters that not only kissed each other, but also had sex-scenes togethers.
Look at TV today. Smallville (Male star) Supernatural (Male star's) Reaper (Male star's)
Where are the female hero's? like the one's we seen in Charmed, Buffy, Xena infact when Charmed ended so did the whole women in power tv genre.
-Nathiest
live for lust die for love
And...
Alias. To a lesser extent (because there wasn't any real 'action-action') Veronica Mars. Where have all the heroines gone?
~It means pride.~
Oh, come on!
Buffy? A heroine? Xena? I really don't see how they convey a "women in power" vibe. To me it shows a more "let's parade around in little clothing and see what ratings we get" kind of thing. Especially with Buffy, yeah, she's hot and she kicks arse, but she was definitely written not to be too powerful and intimidating. I mean, she fits the stereotype of dumb blonde.
So, if those are your T.V. heroines, then i don't think we had any to begin with.
buffy
I guess I just don't see how you can miss the layers of Buffy. I'll admit, sometimes she behaved in the typical "blonde" way. In the high school years she did act childish. But don't we all act a little childish in high school?
Then there was this whole other side of her that only the audience could see. She had to deal with the weight of the world while trying desperately to live a normal life. How can you not get all choked up when buffy is in the kitchen doing dishes and turns the radio up so loud that no one will hear her cry? She always had to be the strong one for her friends, for her family, for the world.
It's not very often you see a pint size blonde girl portrayed as the hero. Yeah, she saved the world a lot, but I think the real beauty behind BtVS was in the little battles, the things us as an audience can relate to.
One of my favorite scenes from Buffy was in the season 2 finale. Buffy goes up against Angel, fighting to the death, and just as it seems like it's over... we get this:
Angel- "Now that's everything, huh? No weapons... No friends... No hope. Take all that away... and what's left?"
Buffy-"Me."
Isn't that something a true hero would say?
Chill
Hey now, there's no need for that. We're all entitled to our own opinions, of course, but expressing them by insulting other posters is not necessary.
_________
I wonder
I'm curious as to the age of some of the posters in here. I think for the above 25 crowd Buffy and Xena had more of an impact on us. But I agree with you, there is such a lack of heroines on tv today. Shelley C
Yea, Buffy -- not so much
I'm not into, never have been, and aside from the whole Willow thing, don't really see the draw...
Maybe it's that I'm not into Science Fiction/Fantasy/Vampire/Witch shows...
I also thought Desert Hearts was a total drag! So not worth the lesbian moments... :)
hmmm...
I must respectfully disagree on several of your finer points, browne. Tina Fey, for one, is a goddess--and always should be referred to as such. I also find Ellen HYSTERICAL, in everything she does. The L Word is something I've only really gotten into recently; I think my lack of viewing of the show revolves around not having Showtime rather than not enjoying it. Desert Hearts and Xena, however, I agree with you on.
On the flip side, I think Jon Stewart and other satirists that can make a gay joke classy, I can appreciate. And I don't particularly care for Jodie Foster (gasp) other than a general respect for her acting abilities.
What makes me not so gay though, without a doubt, is my general distaste for Bad Girls. I also must have missed the boat on all things sci-fi as I don't get the obsession of Bionic Woman or Battlestar Galactica.
http://legallyout.blogspot.com
Bad Girls is bad!
Its good to see that I can keep my club card! I couldn't understand what there was to like about a show about women in prison and their stereotypical relationships - if thats not the worst stereotype I've ever seen, I don't know what is! Oh sorry - I got a severe flashback to the Tila show - nevermind!
Love never loses its way home. Remember...its about the journey, not the destination
I'm so not gay then?
Because I don't find short-haired Olivia Benson/Mariska Hargitay attractive at all.
Also thanks for speaking up about Tina Fey and Ellen! I too think Tina is funny, but not THAT funny and absolutely cannot get into her show (and I've really tried). Same with Ellen. In that same vein, another reason I guess I'm so not gay is I can't stand Rosie O'Donnell. Ah well.
Do I get my lesbian card back if I admit to watching Gossip Girl (among other things) because of the subtext? Yes?
I'm with you on most of these...
i never watched Xena...Tina Fey is alright. I think Ellen was definitely funnier back in the day (although still not hilarious then). I do like her though. I love Det. Olivia Benson (thank God she finally had that kid, came back to SVU and cut her hair again). Lesbian subtext, ha! Gossip Girl and I would add One Tree Hill's Peyton and Brooke. I completely hear you about Bring it On! *swoon*. Ditto for Jodie, Kristy and Nancy McKeon (as Jo only)...I haven't seen this Ellen Page chic yet, so that remains to be seen.
My only real disagreement with your list is the L Word...I can't get enough. of course, i've always secretly liked soap operas, so I'll take the trade off some bad times (season 3 anyone?) for some good times...
my biggest departure from thigns lesbian would probably be musical taste...for instance, Tegan and Sara...I might like them okay, but I certainly am not sitting and waiting for the latest CD to come out. I dunno. In fact, this whole list is pretty foreign to me: "http://www.afterellen.com/music/2007/12/bestlesbianbialbums?page=0%2C1/">
Nancy McKeon
She was pretty good in the Division too. IMO. :)
But her as Jo and Blair certainly had some serious chemistry. *g*
Pic made by inthefield46
If you think so too, have look here. http://community.livejournal.com/fol_fiction
:DWhat about gay men's movies?
Your friends' list included Brokeback Mountain, which brought up an interesting issue that I occasionally think about when turning on my gaydar; and that is the inclusion/exclusion of gay (men's) TV/movies. I'll admit, I sometimes think I fall into the stereotypes of gay men more than lesbians: I love musicals, expensive shoes and I have an inexplicably weird thing for Judy Garland and Liza Minelli. But, I have to say that I actually like Queer as Folk more than I like The L Word. Brian/Justin/Michael triangle managed to hold my attention for all five seasons, but I'm completely done with Bette/Tina. (If it weren't for the hot women making out, I wouldn't watch it at all.) But, I don't think I would've started watching QAF in the first place if I were straight.
I sometimes wonder to what extent queer entertainment in general can be an (albeit stereotypical) indicator of LGBT people... Just throwing that out there.
^ Yes on everything you said
gay male movies
I love gay movies. There have only been two movies that have made me want to watch them 8, 9, 10 times AND made me cry at almost every single viewing, and that's Brokeback Mountain and Eternal Summer (a Taiwanese movie). I guess there's just something pretty damn amazing about the emotional, physical connection a gay couple has that I just can't understand, and I know I'll never have that same connection because I've never seen any other pairing with it - that raw, emotional, indescribable feeling, it's just beautiful.
But a lot of lesbians don't like gay male entertainment, no? I remember when Dara was recapping Dante's Cove, a lot of the comments were made on how much the commenters didn't want to see so much male nakedness. But i just love gay men :) It's a lot easier for two women to hold hands in public, but when two men do it you know it really means something.
Omg I totally agree!
I had to comment because I am exactly the same way. I even used to own that same yellow and black t-shirt that Michael wore in the first season promo photo. I'm such a gay man sometimes!
QAF was by far the greatest LGBT show to air on television. The characters were a lot more realized...and the storylines followed themselves better. And who doesn't love the deep, sultry voice of Michelle Clunie (Melanie)?
Ditto as well on the musicals and inexplicably weird thing for Judy Garland. I've always been in love with her (especially in Meet Me in St.Louis) as well as Ginger Rogers - she was SO gorgeous.
I do love Xena though...it's probably my favourite tv show of all time (although QAF is right up there too)...and I'm a HUGE Tina Fey fan, and I am always flabbergasted when people don't understand her appeal. But, we're all unique and that would account for the differences in opinion. I love Buffy but I can understand why some people wouldn't take to it...same for Xena.
Although in defense of Xena, I seriously think that most people who don't like Xena/haven't watched it just haven't given it a chance. Watch a couple of the great lesbian subtexty episodes, and you're likely to get hooked. And this comes from a girl who used to hate both Xena and Buffy like crazy. Believe me...even the cynics can be turned haha.
PS...I don't think Mariska Hargitay is attractive AT ALL. Haha so that shows you my differences in opinion.
~Renée
You guys are on crack!!
Buffy....repulsive?.....Ellen not funny?
WHAT?!?!?!
Doesn't matter if you're a lesbian or not - that is just plain wrong!
Cool
Very cool of you to admit all of this stuff, the only thing i gasped at was the Xena thing, how anybody could not like that show (gay or not gay) will always be beyond me. I have to say though that my taste in entertainment is extremely gay. I love ALL of the things you mentioned (except maybe the Ellen thing) and whenever afterellen writes an article i either already know and love it or go after it like a dog for its bone, lol.
Subtex, Maintext or just a cool pretty lady, i love it all :D
I never got Xena either
Seriously? I tried watching that show once, couldn't do it. I also don't get the Tina Few thing either.
On the so gay note, yes yes yes Mariska Hargitay is just..*drooooool* And I think Bring It On made me gay(er) to? And Jo...need I say more?
I AM THE MALE LESBIAN
Love your user pic
NOT ALONE! At last....
Exception of Ellen, i'm fully un-gay then. I cant stand the L-word. I'm sorry but i cant take any of them. I loved exes ohs hought, for once, the character felt actually normal human and althought no drama free it didnt feel unrealistic, msot of it anyway.
Oh so the fact that i have a hard time taking a joke is gay XD That explains a lot. Althought when a humorist says it, if i sens that is not being a jerk but just doing a joke i can take it.
And subtext is the best thing to exist since we dont get much canon.But your other lsit i'm not super familiar with. I like Jodie and Ellen Paige thought.
And Buffy? I watched it for willow, honestly. Loved the first seasons but it got old quick... When willow turned gay thought, i tuned back in. But am I the only one to not adore Tara? Yes there relationship was great, but Tara as character didnt do it for me.
Oh and the artist i love tend to be gay. Tegan and Sara anyone?
Anyway just glad i'm not alooone!
While I think what lesbians
While I think what lesbians should and shouldn't like is cute and fun, I figure that we can't ALL like the same things, and we don't ALL have to like lesbian icons. I liked Xena (Gabrielle, really) but I preferred Hercules because as a kid, Hercules was funnier. I don't get Buffy, and I've never watched SVU so I don't get the Mariska Hargitay thing. And I got Desert Hearts online because everyone was gushing about it, and I really didn't get it - yeah, it was groundbreaking and well, the sex scenes were pretty good, but I didn't get into the movie at all. I'm not big on the creepy seduction thing.
BUT, I've liked Tina Fey even before I realised I was gay, and Ellen's cute not because of her talkshow but her sitcom - I love Ellen Morgan a bit too much. Anyway, my point is that not ALL lesbians must love Ellen and Tina Fey and Xena and Buffy in order to be gay, right?
Yes, thank you. You put it
Very interesting
So Gay/So Not Gay... So Way Gay-Uberlesbian?
"Think Sideways"
Me too!
Gasp!
I have never made this many side comments on a post! Haha...but Lucy Lawless and even "slightly" unattractive in the same sentence are foreign to me.
Lucy Lawless is so gorgeous it's sick. I would do almost anything to even be in the same room as her...she's just so dreamy.
But meh...I reiterate that I don't get the Mariska Hargitay thing...my gf loves her too...but I don't think she's anything special.
Whatever floats your gay boat.
~Renée
5. Xena who?
5. Xena who?
Ok forget you and your silly opinions on topics that of which you yourself admitted to know nothing about.
-Nathiest
live for lust die for love
I Swear
Everywhere you go, you're just a ray of sunshine, aren't ya? Seriously.
For the record, I've never seen an episode of Xena, Buffy or Battlestar Galatica.
My life doesn't seem any less fulfilled because of it.
-----
Geoffrey: You fool! As if it matters how a man falls down.
Richard: When the fall is all that is left, it matters a great deal.
- The Lion in Winter
Then why are you here? They
Then why are you here? They other day at a Half Price Book store I over heard two guys discussing the mesozoic era I found the topic to be completely uninteresting, but I thought it would be best to not tell them that. I mean who am I? I know nothing about the subject.
-Nathiest
live for lust die for love
Cliche
I think the point of the entry was that there are these lesbian cliches--things that women who like women should like, according to some weird lesbian lore--that browne (and myself to a degree) don't embrace.
It's completely different than your analogy.
It'd be like Ross from Friends walking into that Half Price Bookstore and overhearing two guys discussing the mesozoic era and finding the topic completetly uninteresting.
-----
Geoffrey: You fool! As if it matters how a man falls down.
Richard: When the fall is all that is left, it matters a great deal.
- The Lion in Winter
Thank You, Pecola,
yeaaaah! ^_^
Have to agree
I've got to agree here. I'll give everything a chance once...I HATED Xena and Buffy before...but I gave them a chance and now I love them both.
Having said that...everyone has the right to an informed opinion. Getting a "feeling" about something you haven't seen though, is not informed.
Hehe.
~Renée
Can't Go There
I've never been into anything fantasy/sci-fi/vampire-ish/etc. Ever.
Maybe I'm just not creative enough, but I can't get my mind to go there.
It's not something that's limited to BSG or Xena or Buffy. You could pick pretty much any show (or movie, for that matter) in that vein and I'd give you pretty much the same answer.-----
Geoffrey: You fool! As if it matters how a man falls down.
Richard: When the fall is all that is left, it matters a great deal.
- The Lion in Winter
Buffy and Battlestar Galactica Rock!
I thought