AMY: I did
all the little things that needed to be done in the editing
room, like organizing all the trims. I made boxes for all
the films, took the dailies over to the projection room.
HILARY: Editing
was more of a manual process than it is now.
AMY: So then
I moved to New York to work for a documentary filmmaker,
until he ran out of money. Then I just decided if I was
really going to be serious about working in the film industry,
I would have to move to LA, which I did in 1988. Once I
got to LA, I had to work for free as an assistant editor
for a little while, to get some experience. It took about
six months to start making a living at it.
AE:
Hilary, how 'bout you?
HILARY: I
went to school at Northwestern for theater, and decided
I didn’t want to do that. I really enjoyed the editing
in my film classes, but I was also in a rock band at the
time. When I got out of school I thought I should give the
rock band a chance (laughing), and then I moved to New York
and worked there for a few years at The Shooting Gallery,
which is a pretty big company now but was pretty small then.
I worked on Spanking the Monkey, which did well,
but I ran out of money because you make so little in New
York unless you’re in the union, which I wasn’t.
Then I left New York to live in Boston for a year, and then
moved to LA to work for David Lynch in 1995, on his film
Lost Highway.
AE:
How did you two meet?
AMY (laughing):
That’s a longer story that you want to hear.
AE: Give me the short version.
HILARY: We
met while working on Brokedown Palace.
AE: The film with Claire Danes, right?
HILARY: Right.
AE: One of you also worked on The Polish
Wedding, too.
AMY: Yes,
I did.
AE: Are you just following Claire Danes
and David Lynch around?
HILARY: (laughing)
Yes. Although I’ve never met Claire Danes actually,
even though I always wanted to.
AE: So you were both working on Brokedown
Palace?
AMY: Yes.
The editor I had worked for before as an assistant, Curtiss
Clayton, had hired me to work as an assistant editor on
Brokedown Palace right after I had finished High
Art, and even though it was an assistant job I
needed to take it for the money. Hilary had been working
for Curtiss--
HILARY:--I
was the new Amy.
AMY: (laughing)
I had gone off to try and become an editor, and for three
years I didn’t have to take any assistant jobs, and
that was pretty great. But after working on High Art
in New York for almost nothing, when Curtiss called and
said “Do you want to work on this movie?” I
said sure. So I went on location in the Philippines for
three months, and when we came back to finish the editing
in LA, that’s when I met Hilary.
AE: So you were both in the editing room
in LA for that film?
HILARY: Yes.
(laughing) And neither one of us was the boss of the other.
AE: Explain
the difference between an assistant editor and an editor.
HILARY: It
used to be more interesting being an assistant editor when
it was on film, because you actually handled the film and
you could see what they were cutting. Now it’s much
more of an organization office job, because of computers.
It’s more organizing things and dealing with all the
things the editor doesn’t want to deal with.
AMY: It’s
kind of like being a librarian. A very detailed-oriented
job.
AE: Is there usually one editor and several
assistant editors on a film?
AMY: Yes,
usually. At least, that’s how it used to be.
HILARY: On
a lot of films now, though, since they use computers, it’s
just one editor and one assistant.
AMY: Brokedown
Palace was still on film, though, so Hilary and I were
two of the six assistants.
AE:
How long do you usually have to remain an assistant editor?
HILARY: It
depends partly on your ambition. We had a lot of friends
who didn’t learn computers early enough, or got into
big budget films as an assistant and now have car payments,
house payments, etc. so they don’t want to drop back
down in pay to try and make it as an editor.
AMY: I spent
eight years as an assistant, and haven’t done an assistant
editor job since Brokedown Palace. Hilary's earlier
in her career…
HILARY: In
the last few years I’ve been moving up, but it is
hard. In the last year or so, though, I’ve decided
not to take any more assistant editing jobs.
AE:
Is most of the work done after the shooting or do you start
while they’re shooting?
AMY: That’s
the best way to start, but on a lot of low-budget movies,
you don’t get that opportunity—they’ll
hire you after they’ve finished shooting. Hilary was
once hired a month afterwards. But usually it’s while
they start shooting and I usually have a cut ready a week
after they finish shooting.
AE: Do you want to start editing while
they’re shooting so you can make suggestions of scenes
that need to be reshot?
AMY: Or an
angle that’s missing, or something you think you might
need later.
HILARY: The
first cut keeps everything in--you’re basically making
an assembly of the whole film the way the script was written.
Then you go through and start cutting.
AE:
Do the directors usually reshoot scenes after seeing the
first cut?
HILARY: I
don’t work on movies where there’s enough money
to re-shoot. Amy sometimes does, though. You usually wait
until you’re well into the editing process to make
decisions about re-shooting is to see whether you can do
without them, though, even on higher-budget films.
AE: Who makes the decisions about what
gets cut—the editor, the director, or both?
AMY: Both
usually, but it depends on the relationship between the
editor and the director. If you have a good relationship,
which you hope for, then you make the decision together
because you have a similar vision of what you want the film
to be and how to get it there. Other times, there are directors
that have their own view…or if you get off on a bad
footing with a director, they don’t want to hear your
opinions as much, and that’s hard too, and not as
enjoyable.
AE:
As an editor, can you schedule a lot of stuff far
in advance?
HILARY: You
really have to have stuff lined up. Our parents are always
asking “What do you have lined up?” and they
think we’re deadbeats because we’re like “I
don’t know” when we’re on the last week
of a job. But editors are really often an afterthought,
even on big-budget films…you’re lucky if they
call you two to three weeks before they start shooting.
Oftentimes, they’re already at the location in Ohio
or something and they have to interview you on the phone
because they can’t afford to fly back to interview
you in person.
AMY: I’ve
gotten two jobs that way, actually.
HILARY: So
when we finish a job, we go away immediately, because otherwise
you might not get a break at all.
AE: Are the jobs usually in Los Angeles?
HILARY: There
are jobs in other places, but we’ve decided not to
do that right now.
AE: Which films that you've worked on have
been your favorites?
AMY: High
Art, for sentimental reasons—it was the film
that gave me a career, because people still interview me
because of my work on that movie--and Things You Can
Tell Just by Looking at Her because it was a really
great experience and I loved the movie. And I had a really
great relationship with the director, Rodrigo Garcia.
HILARY: I
enjoyed working on Treading
Water until things went badly with the director,
because it was the first lesbian movie I had worked on and
it was really great to make a contribution to that. The
film I just edited, Mall Cop, was really fun, too,
because it was my first real paid editing job, and I got
along really well with the director and I like the film.
AE: What do you like about working with
Lisa Cholodenko [who directed Laurel Canyon as
well as High Art]?
AMY: It’s
fun, because we’re old friends…she used to be
an assistant editor, actually, that’s how we met.
We were working across the hall from each other on the FOX
lot, and we became friends. Then she went off to Columbia
for film school, we stayed friends and I ended up cutting
all of her student films. Then when she wrote and got money
for High Art and asked me to edit it, and I said
sure.
AE: Do you find that once you develop a
relationship with a director or a producer like Lisa, they’ll
keep hiring you for future movies?
AMY: As an
editor, you try to find directors who want to keep working
with you, because it’s nice to have familiar people
around you who understand your work and what you’re
trying to do. Fortunately, I’ve worked with Lisa for
a long time, but I’m still trying to develop relationships
with directors.
HILARY: But
it’s also hard because, while Amy likes to work with
Lisa, there was three years between Lisa's films, and Amy's
still has to work.
AMY: Right.
A lot of times you try to do that, and the timing just doesn’t
work out.
AE: Has being openly gay ever been an issue in your careers?
AMY: No, not
really.
HILARY: Not
a problem, exactly, but I do feel like in certain situations
I’m looked at differently. Like if you’re working
with a straight boy, they’re wondering “is this
going to be weird?” and then they work with you for
a little while and they realize, no, it’s not weird.
I was really popular on one set where the director really
enjoyed the ladies, so his girlfriend, who was the editor,
didn’t really enjoy hiring too many women, but I wasn’t
a threat.
AE:
Do you think there are more openly gay women working in
TV/film than there used to be?
AMY: Oh definitely.
The lesbian filmmaking scene in LA is somewhat small--even
if you don’t know them personally, you know the names.
(laughing) It’s very incestuous.
HILARY: I
do like working on gay and lesbian films, but I do get a
little concerned when your agent starts saying “oh,
this film has a gay character in it, it’ll be perfect
for you!” Also, the budgets on a lot of lesbian films
are really pretty small, so if you get stuck in that...although
the field is getting bigger and there are more bigger budget
lesbian-themed films being made now.
AMY: Also,
if my agent knows the director of a film is gay, pitching
me to them is a lot easier. It’s like “Oh, she
worked on High Art.”
HILARY: I
just edited a short film with Guin
Turner, called Hummer, and that was an easy
one: even straight people have heard of Go Fish.
There definitely is a gay/lesbian short list, like High
Art, Guin Turner…
AE: So one of you knew Guin and that’s
how you got the job...
HILARY: No,
we knew people who knew her--Jamie
Babbit and Andrea Sperling, who produced the short.
It really is a small world in lesbian film circles.
AE: So you’ve collectively worked
on almost every lesbian-themed film in the last five years,
except maybe Monster...
HILARY: (laughing)
Amy was up for that movie, too, actually. They hired someone
else.
AE:
Amy, you just finished working on Cholodenko's latest film
Cavedweller. Any lesbians in that?
AMY: No.
HILARY: Isn’t
there one?
AMY: I don’t
think so…
HILARY: What
about that butch woman?
AMY: Oh right.
Yes, she is, but it’s not explicit, it’s just
implied…
HILARY: That’s
Sherilyn Fenn’s character, right?
AMY: Yeah
AE: Sherilyn Fenn playing a butch woman?
I really can’t see that…
AMY: She’s
pretty cute, actually. And the young girl in the film is
such a tomboy you can’t help but think she’s
going to grow up to be one, too.
AE:
Does it seem to be getting easier to make films with lesbian
characters/themes?
AMY: Yeah, ten years ago, Maria
Maggenti and Rose Troche’s films were really the
only two out there…
HILARY: There
are more small gay production companies getting more money,
like Funny Boys, which made Latter Days. But I
still think it’s more gay male stories getting made.
AE: Do you think there’s a market
for more lesbian films?
HILARY: Definitely.
Look at The L Word,
I think that’s clearly shown there’s a market
for that. But lesbian stories are also harder to make…I
was reading an article recently in which the Indigo Girls
were speaking out against The L Word as a show
for straight men, and I thought “it’s Ilene
Chaiken, it’s lesbians making these stories.”
When the community can’t even be happy that it’s
there, it becomes more difficult for people to write a lesbian
story everyone will be happy with. So you end up with movies
like Kissing
Jessica Stein, which I like in some ways, but is
also a major cop out in others.
AE:
I thought that was an interesting movie if you saw it as
more as a movie about the sexuality continuum than a "lesbian
movie"…
AMY: I agree,
it was interesting that way.
AE: The media spun it as a lesbian movie,
because there really isn’t a category for “Sexuality
Continuum Films,” since the media can’t sell
that in ten words or less…
HILARY: (laughing)
Exactly. But movies like D.E.B.S….we
know Angela
[Robinson], and that’s definitely what she’s
trying to do: take that mainstream format and try to insert
a little lesbian romance into it. Maybe that movie’s
a little more mainstream than I would like, but it’s
a step in the right direction.
AE: I saw it at Sundance and thought it
was really funny.
HILARY: It
is really funny, but I also like that you kind of forget
that it’s a lesbian teen romance. It is what it is,
and I really respect that.
AE:
It also didn’t come across as a low-budget film, which
was a nice change from most lesbian movies…
AMY: Definitely.
HILARY: It
would bring a lot more attention and respect to lesbian
films if they had better production quality, like D.E.B.S.
does.
AE: It seems like usually, the only movies
with good, Hollywood-level production values are ones like
Monster or The
Hours where everyone’s depressed, suicidal,
or serial killers…
HILARY (laughing):
Exactly. And if you want to see lesbians that aren’t
depressing you have to watch TV. I think television is doing
better with lesbians than most films.
AE:
Any TV shows you think have done a particularly good job
with lesbians besides The L Word?
HILARY: Once
and Again. That was one of the best teen lesbian
plots I’ve ever seen. And we’re big Buffy
fans.
AMY: Once
and Again was so well done!
AE:
It seems like the most interesting stuff lately is on cable,
though, not network TV.
AMY: It’s
true. Like, Claire is going to start exploring her sexuality
on Six Feet
Under...
HILARY: Even
on Carnivale there was a little bit. They’re
just doing a much more interesting job.
AE:
Have either of you considered editing for TV?
AMY: Oh definitely.
It used to be that TV was considered a step down from working
on feature films, but with cable TV right now, it’s
changing. It’s weird, TV commercial people want to
work on feature films, but feature people would love to
work in TV commercials because there’s so much money,
and then there are television editors, who have these great,
steady jobs with a regular hiatus. So we all tend to envy
each other.
HILARY: Some
of the cable TV movies are very highly regarded now. I did
work for a brief time on a network TV show, but the cutting
schedule was so compressed and the producers had a lot more
input than the creative team...I didn’t really like
that so much.
AMY: But cable
shows like The L Word have a lot more time, so
they can take their time with the episodes. I would love
to edit a cable TV series now, because a lot of them are
cut feature-style.
HILARY: We’re
very loyal to a lot of TV shows, and we think there’s
a lot more quality TV out there than people give it credit
for.
AE:
Is it good or bad for your relationship that you’re
working in the same field?
AMY: (laughing)
It’s kind of funny, because right now Hilary would
say I’m handing her all my cast-offs. Like I’ll
interview for a job, but the pay is kind of low so I’ll
say “you should talk to this woman named Hilary...”
HILARY: And
then I’ll call them and pretend I don't live with
Amy, saying “Oh, this woman Amy Duddleston gave me
your number" (laughing). It’s easier right now
because we’re on different levels in our career.
AE: So you’re not really competing
for the same jobs right now?
HILARY: No,
but that could become more of a problem in the future. It
helps that we have our own agents, though, so they can duke
it out instead of us.
AE:
Do you find you spend too much of your free time talking
about work?
AMY: We do
sometimes, but mostly it’s nice that we understand
each other’s jobs so well.
HILARY: (laughing)
It’s like, when you’re bitching about someone
taking the mouse from you, she understands the indignity
of that...
AMY: Or if
I have to work late, she understands instead of asking “Why?!”
HILARY: I
think people automatically assume it creates competition,
but 90% of the time it’s a good thing.
