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Kashish Chopra won the Miss Congeniality award at the Miss India U.S.A. pageant in August, 2003; she talks here about her experience being an out lesbian in the pageant and in her community, and how she hopes to increase lesbian visibility within the Indian-American community overall.

Are you surprised that you won "Miss Congeniality" at the Miss India U.S.A. pageant? What does the award signify?

I was ABSOLUTELY surprised! Funny story actually: In April I ran for Miss India New England and won the title of Miss India New England 2nd Runner up and also the regional Miss Congeniality. When they called my name, I didn't realize they said MY name. I wasn't expecting it at all, so I didn't step forward for a few seconds. I just convinced myself they were clapping for someone else. The same thing happened at the Miss India USA pageant. I was stunned to become a top ten finalist. At the end when they announced me as Miss Congeniality, I did the exact same thing! I actually thought Miss Texas was going to win it.

The Miss Congeniality is the only award that the contestants decide. We all vote for the winner. It meant so much to me for all the girls to honor me like that. And to know that even though I was open about being a lesbian, they voted for me just the same, that showed me such affirmation. It was consolation for some of the displacement I felt growing up gay in the Indian community.

You've mentioned that many of the other Miss India U.S.A. contestants were supportive of you being out, but other members of the Indian community were not; do you think this reflects a generational shift in attitudes towards lesbians within the Indian-American community?

Times are changing. I am only 19 years old (turning 20 in November might I add), but when I was growing up, I really thought that I was the ONLY gay Indian. Somehow I got the impression the only place gay Indians were openly seen was in the UK. Ridiculous, but it is what people told me. Now, I am noticing that the gay Indian community wants to break through and proudly takes its place in society. We just haven't has the ability to be visible, but now all that is changing. Here in Boston I belong to a gay south Asian group called the Boston Masala. Cali has Trikone. DC has Khush DC. NYC has SALGA. We are everywhere. Just look at movies like Bend It Like Beckham: When the Indian guy said he was gay, the girls response was "Can you do that?" Now, we can proudly begin to say YES!

Many women think pageants are sexist and/or demeaning to women; what's your perspective on that?
From my experiences with the Miss India USA pageant, I can say that I have never felt more empowered. I wasn't walking around in a swimsuit being judged on how perfect my legs or proportions are--Miss India is about celebrating the beauty of our culture and each contestant there was an example the fusion of our eastern and western worlds. We were all very well educated and ambitious people, it was far from the stereotypes of beauty queens. I did get my fair share of comments and skepticism when people knew I was part of the pageant world, but we stood on that stage with pride for who we are, where we come from, and where we hope to go in life, whatever that may be. We did not stand there as objects to the eyes of our audience.

How do you think/hope your participation in the pageant as an out lesbian will influence attitudes about Indian-American lesbians?

I hope I can help bring attention to the gay Indian community and a lot of the issues facing the gay community. I love my culture--I am 100% Hindu Punjabi lesbian and proud of it. Just because I was born in America doesn't make me any less Indian. And because I am gay doesn't make me less Indian either. I am trying to help bridge the gap between culture/tradition and being gay. I don't think it should be a disgrace to have a son or daughter who is gay. And I think right now the community needs to see people out in society so they don't grow up thinking the way I did: that being gay and Indian isn't an option.

On October 13th I am giving a talk at the University of Arizona, Tucson. I will be speaking about my experiences dealing with the conflict between being gay and my cultural atmosphere. I am also working on setting dates to possibly speak at Yale in November; hopefully more schools and organizations will take interest, because I think its a great way to bring issues out in the open.

You are one of the very few lesbian Indian-Americans in the public eye; why do you think there are so few others? Are you surprised by all the attention you've received because of this?

I am a little surprised by how fast people took notice of me. I was more surprised when I heard that articles about me have been forwarded across the globe. When I am clicking away and my computer and stumble on a message board where someone mentions me, I can't even believe it. But it's great. I am glad people have taken notice and interest. I want people to see that "Hey! We ARE out there!" This is who I am, and I am not going to hide that--and if I can use my leverage in society to bring attention to certain issues, you can be sure that I will do it.

Where did you grow up, and how did you realize you were gay?

I was born in Washington, D.C. and grew up living right outside the city in Maryland. DC is a great place to live and especially to grow up in. It's so diverse and has such a great community, gay and otherwise.

When you are growing up, there is a point around 6th grade where everyone in your class starts having crushes on each other. I didn't have a crush on any of the boys in my class. There was a guy that I thought was pretty cool and I actually didn't understand why I didn't have a crush on him. It was weird that I didn't LIKE him. When girls would ask who I had a crush on, how was I supposed to say that I was into the girls in the TV commercials? I had little crushes on people on TV. God, I can't even remember who!

I have always known that I was attracted to women. Even at an early age, there was something that drew me to other women. That "magic" wasn't there with guys. But, when you are so young, you don't know how to deal with that. You don't know what to do with those sorts of feelings because everyone else is going through "normal" things. I actually had a horrible crush on one of my middle school science teachers...lol. She had this cute, subtle, southern accent on some of her words. It was funny because even when she was mad at the class, I still thought she was the best thing ever. I wished I were a guy so I could be her boyfriend...lol. So even in those really early years, I knew I was gay. At that point, I was just at the beginning of piecing together what that really meant.

You came out when you were fairly young (junior high); what was that experience like for you, and has your family become more accepting of it since then?

The experience was horrible for me at the time. Growing up, I didn't want to be gay. I don't know that many young people who, at that age, are happy about something like that. I would have rather been dead and kept falling into horrible depressions. Finally I told a friend that I was bisexual. For some reason, I though that by saying I was bi, people might think I was at least somewhat like them, that maybe I was sorta normal. Sad isn't it? For me to go through that in 7th grade was pretty rough.

My depression just got worse until high school when I started to find SOME acceptance. My family is different story. One of the first people I came out to was my older sister, and right away she was supportive of me. She has always be OK with my sexuality, but I still worry she doesn't approve. My mother and I discussed my "gayness" when I was in high school; that didn't go well. So we swept it under a rug. Now I am re-hatching the issues and have to force my parents to deal with this, but for a long time, I will not have my family behind me--being gay isn't an option for me in their eyes. It's harder on me that I can describe.

What are you majoring in in college, and what are you planning to do after graduation?

I am an International Business Major at Suffolk University. I am going to complete my BSBA (Bachelors of Science) in May. My minor is philosophy. After graduating, I want to get my MA/PhD in philosophy, and while doing so I plan to keep working in the community for AIDS awareness, gay issues, and of course will continue my involvement in the Indian community. I don't know where I will move to after graduation, but where ever that it, I am sure things will fall into place.

Was your sexuality an issue when you ran for vice president of the South Asian Student Organization on campus?

Ever since I went to my freshman orientation here at Suffolk University, I have been accepted as a lesbian. I remember one of the first people I met on campus. He was an upper class-man and we checked out the same girl. I soon realized how gay-friendly my campus was. My sexual orientation was never an issue when I became Vice President of SASA. Everyone knows that I am a lesbian, and everyone also knows how much I love my culture, so the "gay thing" was never an issue.

Do you currently have a girlfriend?

I am single, no girlfriend at all...lol...still looking...I have been single for a long time now actually. Every so often I go on a few dates, but nothing serious. I am looking, so if you want to set me up with someone, feel free! lol...I am not a shy person, but I don't have a clue why girls don't come up to me...maybe they just think I am straight, lol.

Besides the characters in Fire and Chutney Popcorn, there are few other Indian-American lesbians represented in film or on television, even in films made by lesbians; why do you think this is, and do you see any improvement on the horizon?

I remember when Fire came out. I actually have a copy on my mantle right now. It is certainly a movie that I hold in high respects for the barriers it broke and the message it sent. When I saw Chutney Popcorn I couldn't stop laughing--it's so great to see gay Indian character in the media. Now there are so many movies that address these kinds of issues, it helps bring a sort of normalcy to things.

I remember that when I was growing up, if I saw a gay or lesbian character on TV I would be so excited and HAD to watch them; it gave me something to identify with and show me that I wasn't alone. In the years to come, I think we will see a lot more Indian-American lesbians represented in film and television. How great would that be if a romantic comedy was released and the love interests were lesbian Indians? I would die for a chance at something like that--but I am sure someone will do it soon!

The mainstream media often focuses on homophobia within ethnic groups, like the Indian-American community, but doesn't mention racism within the gay community; has your ethnicity and your commitment to Indian culture (speaking Hindi, being a classical Indian dancer, etc.) ever been a problem for you within the lesbian community?

I have known Indians that do not approve of my lifestyle, and are even more uncomfortable that I am confident in my cultural identity as well. Within the gay community I have never had problems. Other people in the gay community think its great that I am so culturally involved and that I still try to keep traditions. Usually people are just surprised that I am gay...lol...even the gay ones.

Conventionally feminine women are also often looked upon with suspicion within the lesbian community (as if we're not really gay), and pageant winners even more so; have you encountered this?

Only EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE! It is so frustrating! I am not going to apologize for the fact that I like to have my nails done and I like to dress up and go dancing. I am a total femme! My friends have always made fun of it actually. But just because I don't have short hair and act more masculine, doesn't mean I am not gay. I think femmes get a bad wrap. So do bisexuals, actually. Its annoying when people won't stop trying to tell me that "I am not really gay" or "I am too girly to be a lesbian." Its ridiculous. Get over it.

Surely the beauty queen concept didn't help. But what is a typical lesbian? Or a typical beauty queen? If there were rules for these things, I sure didn't get the memo. Nobody expects me to be gay because I am really femme. Nobody expected me to be in Miss India because I was gay and surely didn't expect me to get past the regionals. We keep saying that the gay community needs to break though social barriers and stereotypes; how can we do that if we stereotype one another?

I am 5.5, Long brown hair, dark brown eyes, I wear glasses, am a dorky academic, have a history with drug abuse, wear a business suit, wear an evening gown, am a lesbian, a Hindu, a Miss India contestant, and a lesbian. My life was built on thinking I couldn't be this or that because of what people told me, and my future is being built on the realization that people aren't always right.

Note: you can email Kashish Chopra at chandni_kash@yahoo.com.