Sorry I’m so late with posting discussion questions for this double-header of sci-fi and fantasy we had in August, with both Tamora Pierce‘s The Will of the Empress and Nicola Griffith‘s Ammonite. The reason I’m so behind is that it actually took me quite a long time to struggle through both of these novels. But some of the great discussions you guys had over on Goodreads really helped me think about things. Which, of course, is why this book club is rad. So let’s get started, first with the world of Namorn:
Will of the Empress
1. Is this actually a standalone novel?
Will of the Empress was actually the first Pierce novel I’ve read, and I selected it for the club because LESBIANS but also because I had read that it worked as a standalone novel, even though it involves characters from previous series. But immediately when I started reading this, I felt completely lost. Which is fine-it normally takes me a little while to settle into a new fantasy world. But after 100 pages, and then 200 pages, and so on, I still felt disconnected from this world and these characters, and like I would have been a zillion times more interested in everything if I had read the previous series.
But then, everyone else who commented about this book HAD read Pierce before, and you all seemed to LOVE it. And by the very end of the novel, I did care about everyone, but it just took so long to get there.
2. How do you feel about Daja and Rizu’s relationship-and their ending?
I think this is one of the rare times where a lesbian relationship ends somewhat sadly, but for the right reasons. I actually think it’s an important point to make that you should always choose your (chosen) family over a partner who’s not good enough for you, or who’s not brave enough to stand with you when they should.
The only other part that made me slightly sad was that other than knowing that Daja and Rizu were locked up in Rizu’s chambers for days at a time, we didn’t actually get to SEE any of the lovely hanky panky going on. But then again, I know that it would have been out of character for Pierce and for the book to actually show all of that hanky panky, so it’s fine. I GUESS.
3. Pierce fans: Did you realize there were so many other queer characters in her books?
When Daja reveals her newly discovered sexuality to Briar, he essentially rolls his eyes and says, “Come on, did you really think it’d be a big deal? Practically everyone else we’ve ever known is a lesbian!” OK, maybe not everyone. But the characters of Rosethorn and Lark are blatantly exposed as lesbians here, and Starsplit on Goodreads also mentioned the implied queerness of other characters in her previous books: Lalasa and Tian, Thom and Roger. Apparently she has cited publishers forcing her to tone down gay storylines from being forthright and open in the past-that she couldn’t have characters just BE GAY without making some sort of bigger explanation or “issue” about it.
But in an interview with Malinda Lo back in 2009, Pierce also cited her own fears about writing gay characters, not because she didn’t want to or thought they’d be rejected, but because she was afraid that she “wouldn’t do it right – I’d screw up somewhere.” But after seeing the reactions fans had after reading even just one or two lines in her books that implied gay acceptance and equality-youth coming up to her at book signings and bursting into tears-she says, “I realized if they take that much comfort from that teeny tiny line, then I owe it to them to try, whether I think that I’ll fall on my butt or not. I owe them better than one line. And that’s when I began to try and stretch a little – not try and write the gay experience, but have people there who [are gay].”
I love this so much, and I think it explains so well why all authors have the duty to write diverse characters into their books, even when they’re characters with life experiences that the author may not necessarily have lived themselves.
And now to switch from the world of a sneaky emperor to a red headed madwoman invoking death spirits, on the next page.
Ammonite
1. The opinions on this one seemed to veer starkly into love or hate. Which camp did you fall into? Why?
While I rarely actually use the word “hate” in regards to books, I have to say that for a good chunk of Ammonite, I was more on the dislike or just severely bored side of things. At the beginning, I was surprisingly into it from the first page, as Marghe prepared to embark onto Jeep. Griffith is clearly an extremely fine writer and world builder, and I found the whole idea of this world fascinating. I loved the Jodie Foster in Contact vibe of Marghe on the Estrade. But from her landing on Jeep to her journey through the Tehuantepec, I struggled. This may perhaps be because I am a wimpy, squeamish reader, and her experience with the Echraidhe was so harsh and bleak that I just didn’t enjoy it. By the end, of course, I realized that that experience with the Echraidhe was essential for the final, exciting action of the story, but it just took so long to get to that exciting action.
Which I think brings us to the real question of why we did or did not like this book, as was also brought up in the Goodreads discussion, which is: especially in sci-fi and fantasy, how important is the balance of description and action? I think it’s tough, because I actually really did love the last third of the book. I stayed up late to find out what happened next, and at the end, I really was glad I got to experience Jeep as a reader. And the only reason I probably did care about Jeep so much by then was because Griffith had described it so painstakingly well. (I also found Griffith’s short note at the end about why she wrote Ammonite extremely powerful, and important.) Yet at the same time, I only really started to get excited about picking up the book when stuff actually, like, started happening.
2. There was also some discussion about Marghe’s pregnancy. Was it too out of the blue?
Some readers thought the pregnancy came out of nowhere. And I sort of agree. It was like, “Whoa, first date through a woman’s blood stream, and you’re already impregnating each other! They move fast on Jeep!” At the same time, though, it still worked for me because Marghe and Thenike’s relationship, which I actually enjoyed, had been built up so steadily and wonderfully leading up to then.
3. Were there characters or plot points you wish you knew more about?
Danner and Haim were mentioned by readers as not getting enough play, that it would have been nice to see more of their backstories, as well. I also think that going back to Port Central to break up Marghe’s storylines more often would have helped move it along more for me. They wouldn’t have had to be long chapters, but it would have been a good reminder of the conflict and tension of the story that’s still there, that you know is going to come to a head eventually, while Marghe wanders over the landscape and almost dies in the snow and stuff.
4. Was Marghe’s story realistic?
Meaning, do you think it’s realistic for a person to give up their former lives and be absorbed into a new world so completely? I feel personally torn about this. My first reaction is yes, her story was completely believable, because Griffith wrote it so well. I really enjoyed her transformation within herself, and I think her life as a viajera fits completely well with her previous life as an anthropologist-to constantly see new places, to hear and absorb people’s stories. It really is becoming the truest version of herself.
But the more I thought about it-especially with the ending of the novel that truly isolates Jeep from the rest of the universe-it seems a little strange that Marghe never would have even once had a slightly remorseful or wistful thought about never, for instance, seeing her dad again. Yes, they were clearly estranged, but we never really hear about him again after the scene with him in the beginning.
I’m always a little cautious about the idea of someone giving up their past life 100% completely, because it in fact doesn’t seem realistic, or healthy-which is why I was happy that Thenike accepted Marghe’s need to return to Port Central to check on the well being of Danner and the Mirrors. While Thenike clearly needed to trust that Marghe was committed to her new life as a viajera, she also understood her need to still look out for her old kith, as any reasonable parter should. It made me feel confident and hopeful about their relationship in the future.
What were other thoughts you had about either of these novels?
