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Tricia Helfer and Michael Taylor on "Razor"
AE: Tell me how you, as the writer of Razor, see Cain — what kind of woman is she? Why did she allow Gina/Six to be tortured? Though we see evidence early in the show that she has a friendly relationship with her first officer, her subsequent treatment of him when he has the temerity to question her orders clearly shows there are lines she won't allow anyone to cross. Her command comes first, personal affiliations second. But in Gina's case, she let down her guard and allowed someone to get past that self-defense perimeter of hers, to relate to her as a person and not just as a commander. One could argue that weakness — accepting flaws in ourselves and in others — is part and parcel of being human. But for Cain it carries too much devastating psychic resonance with a personal failure she can never forgive herself for. From her point of view, Gina's betrayal is a reminder of her own weakness, that original failure of will, and she makes Gina suffer terribly for it.
AE: As a writer writing in the BSG universe, how do you feel sexual orientation is viewed in that (albeit fictional) society? That being said, I'm not sure why our characters are seemingly more enlightened in this respect when in every other way they're just as flawed as we are. We've certainly explored themes of both bigotry and class conflict in episodes such as Season 3's "The Woman King" and "Dirty Hands." So maybe their more enlightened attitude is more reflective of our own perspectives as writers. Not necessarily that we're more "enlightened," per se, but that as dramatists we were less interested in exploring the idea of sexual orientation than we were exploring the ramifications for these particular two people having shared an intimate relationship.
AE: Number Six has had intimate relationships with men, women and other Cylons. Are all Cylons similarly open in their sexuality?
AE: The character of Gina seems to differ somewhat from Caprica 6 and the other incarnations of Number Six. Who is Gina in comparison to the other copies?
In "Razor" there's a moment where she has a chance to kill Cain, but can't bring herself to do it (not yet, anyway). As a good Cylon soldier, she shouldn't have hesitated to take out this supremely capable human commander, but she couldn't do it. I would argue that it's because she has genuine feelings for Cain. But then the dilemma that our emotions can pose in a time of war — of how they make us dangerously vulnerable, and yet how equally dangerous it can be if we try to cut ourselves off from them entirely, to become "razors" in the parlance of the show — is the crux of the movie. Helena Cain, her protégé Kendra Shaw, and for that matter Lee Adama and Kara "Starbuck" Thrace — all walk that "razor's edge" with varying degrees of success. And while Cain and Shaw end up paying the ultimate price, none of them come away from this experience unscathed. Read the review of Battlestar Galactica: Razor here. |
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News, Reviews & Commentary on Lesbian and Bisexual women in Entertainment and the Media
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Bravo!
Kudos yet again to the whole BSG gang!
IMO they have really succeeded her in doing something really important...they managed to integrate homosexuality into the series virtually seemlessly. I think that would be the ultimate goal in both TV land and in the real world. A dreamy day when sexuality no longer has the preponderance of being right or wrong, but as simple as one of the multiple facets of human existance...
I know many of us have thought that perhaps the revelatory scene between Gina and Cain didn't go quite far enough. However, I think if we're honest with ourselves we know that a big old make out session between Cain and Gina would have been pegged as objectifying, or sweeps type behaviour. The scene was handled realistically, and with dignity. So again Bravo to the BSG team on this one...
My only critique of the movie is the flat performances of Bamber and Sackhoff. Katee normally steals every scene shes in...and this time she seemed to be miles away...anyone agree or am I just being hyper critical?
Hmmmmm..
I agree it was unnescesary
The fact that there is even an interview to clarify and remind viewers that there was an "intimate" lesbian relationship proves the writing concerning this part was NOT good. I don't know where the writer received his Master's in Screenwriting from but given the fact that we constatntly have to be reminded this fact illustrates that the relationship was portrayed rather poorly.
It's as if one is directing a stage play and stops it mid-scene to remind the audience what the play is about. Let the work stand or fall on its merits.
What I am wondering is: Has AE become star struck by having access to these writers that it continues to promote a storyline that is essentially nonexistant? I mean really now , the viewers and the writer himself are saying and writing: "I think she did this...." or "I think she meant that....."
Don't "Think It" SHOW IT! Sheesh
If that's the case who even needs television we can be just as imaginitive.
I don't know...
awesome
I haven't seen Razor yet, but can't wait. this all sounds awesome.
WHat I don't get is why don't they show Cain's backstory on tv already? Why do we have to wait for the DVD? :(
------------------------------------------------------
THE UNOFFICIAL JILL BENNETT FANCLUB WEBPAGE
http://www.freewebs.com/ujbfc
NOW WITH Jill & Jamie Q&A's!!!&
Razor is Online
Thank you Malinda...
BSG - Tricia - the writting
It's nice to see that AfterEllen is paying this much attention to BSG. I'm a big fan and can't get enough, for so many reasons.
I was also a late comer into this show, my friend forced me to watch it when s2 was airing and I've thanked her many times for slapping it across my face. Obviously I had a marathon after seeing the mini-series.
Am a big fan of Tricia Helfer! She's not at all what she seems to be from the first impression (of seeing her on tv), she's so much more. That was a compliment btw, albeit an awkward one. And I'm glad she took the time to answer some questions for her lesbian/bi fans. Could have been longer though...
And thank you Michael Taylor for the stories and characters. The DVD is going to have some extra scenes? That's good, because I felt that some scenes with Cain were too sudden and hard to comprehend. (SPOILERS ahead) Namely, when she kills her friend with hardly any thought, and the intense brutalization of her (ex)lover.
With what was shown, it's still hard to comprehend. I expected deeper delving into the love in their relationship. They say hate is the opposite of love, and you only hate as much as you loved. The amount of hate Cain showed Gina, surpassed by far what we saw of their love. That is just my opinion.
Thanks for the interview Malinda!
Great to read some of the
Great to read some of the thoughts from Helfer and Taylor. You know, I personally think the way they handled the whole gay aspect of the Cain/Gina relationship... as in not really paying any attention to it at all was really refreshing. A person's sexuality wasn't the point but the personal aspect of these two having had an intimate relationship and how that affected Cain and Gina in how they did their jobs. I'd like to see this type of same sex relationship integration more often. I'm not talking about the "betrayal, killing, bad bad" aspect but the fact that they treated it like any other intimate relationship.
As for Cain's reaction... I don't think it's simply about the amount of love vs amount of hate, I think a big part of why Cain reacted so severely to Gina's betrayal was because she's was such a professional, cold, "keep your emotions closed" type. Plus, I still think that the core personality ... either you are capable of killing someone without blinking or you're not (like she did by shooting her second in command). The fact that she was betrayed by Gina served only as a catalyst for her "crazy lady" to step out. There clearly was a lot more psychological reasons for her to lose her mind like that. The wear of the Cylon war, being alone, constantly having the burden of command weighing on you, her past (which we didn't get to see much) and the betrayal... all these things played a role in why she hated the Cylons so much and why she ended up hating Gina so much.
And I thought it was interesting to see how she compartmentalized her emotions and the way she saw Cylons. They were just machines, period. It's also really interesting to see how much or little it takes for a character to lose their "humanity" and use the war as an excuse to forget what they are fighting for.
lol moment brought to you
lol moment brought to you by Quiznos. "Its been revealed Hellena Cain and Gina are lovers"... That was a little highlight brought to us by Quiznos and Sci-Fi Channel.
movie was damn good no suprise.
-Nathiest
I don't get it.
I can’t believe how much positive press this storyline about a lesbian psychopathic killer is getting on AfterEllen.com. To me this is exactly what this site is supposed to be here to combat. I know that the reviews aren’t written by the same authors, but I was just thinking about how hard the AfterEllen reviewer came down on Notes on a Scandal because of its perpetuation of the "evil lesbian stereotype." And all that woman did was act a little crazy and stalkerish and get a pedophile fired. Here we’re talking about cold-blooded murder, rape, and torture.
I can’t believe Michael Taylor actually has the nerve to claim that BSG is somehow progressive toward sexuality—that it’s “no big deal” in the BSG universe. If it’s no big deal, then how come up until now there have been NO gay characters, and then when they do make a character gay, what they come up with is the biggest stereotype EVER, and then they don’t even develop the gay relationship. They just hint at it enough so that Quiznos can use it as their big, sensational "lesbian lovers" reveal, but that's pretty much all it did. (I know the BSG writers probably had nothing to do with the Quiznos thing, but still...)
The biggest weakness of Razor for me—and this is being said all over the internet, not just by me—is that it didn’t really add much to what we already knew about Cain. What it sort of promised to do was flesh out her character, but that’s exactly what it didn’t do, especially in regard to her relationship with Gina. So here the writers actually undermined the story they were trying to tell because they were clearly afraid of going too deeply in to the lesbian storyline—or as someone at TWOP said, they were afraid to stray into “lesbianville.”
And as Sarah Warn always points out, this wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t the ONLY depiction of homosexuality in the history of the series. I mean couldn’t they have at least casually made some minor character gay? What about Gaeta? Everyone thinks he’s gay anyway.
And why does Tricia Helfer now think that Six is not straight? She clearly said to Cain before blowing her head off “you’re not my type.” How much more clear can she make it that she was just on a mission and was not emotionally attached to Cain?
Oh, and also, what cylons has Six had sex with? I must have missed something, because surely a threesome with Baltar and Xenalon doesn’t count. I think most bisexuals would balk at the idea that participated in a threesome makes you bi.
I have to say I’m a little disappointed at the softball questions that were asked and am just scratching my head over the whole thing. I was mildly annoyed but not at all surprised when I first saw Razor that the lesbian storyline was not handled well, but now I'm truly flabbergasted at how it’s being praised on this site. Are we really so desperate for representation that this is what we’re happy with? That's just sad.
You don't get it? Let me explain
I did in my post above but essentially AE's "softball" questions are engendered to continue to have access to these writers and others players in the business.
Seriously if AE truly asked "Hard" questions do you honestly think Sarah Warn and her cronies would be allowed to "schmooze" at events like the Power Up Premier?
The entertainment industry is a tightly guarded (and rather small) community, and the lesbian and gay faction is even smaller.
December 4th '07
cosmiccowgirl ur missing the point
Its not portraying a lesbian as a bad character. Its a character who is strong but brutal when it comes to war etc.. and yup shes not exactly a good person when it comes to war. The story shows tho, shes isn't like that because she is a lesbian, she is like that because of something thats in her pas her experiences etc... Being a lesbian or whatever she is, is just a factor of who she is, and they way they subtly introduced it like she could of easily had a boyfriend is the best part about it. Its no big deal. Course when u betray her, she goes nuts - cos well u can easily tell, this relates to something that has made her this way.
There are instances when you feel sorry for Cain, like when Adama was planning to kill her and she was planning on killing adama - a moment where you hoped they both would stop. And they did, but course - her troubles from the past came back to bite her on the ass.
Actually you are the one missing the point
It's mnot unusual though if you do not know what tyhe point is.
In sociological terms (I have a Master's in Sociology) the way that men and women are socialized means that in order for a woman to become powerful she must take on what are regarded as male attributes.
She must become the "Iron Maiden" (ala Margaret Thacher) to not be seen as weak or vulnerable.
Yet once she doe, women reject her and she becomes "less".
Men may demure to her authority but she is never truly an equal.
To attribute Cain's behavior to something that happened in her "past" diminishes the role that patriarchy has played in determining male and female roles. I mean where did you even come up with that from?
There is validity to the fact that lesbians are typically viewed as not being of the norm, and therefore if Cain takes on these male identified characteristics in order to be viewed as a qualified leader and she happens to also be a lesbian then "voila" you have the Evil Lesbian Stereotype in Full Bloom.
Cain
Is the issue with Cain about how she's a bad person and a lesbian or is it she's a bad person because she's a lesbian?
Taken out of context as originally aired, Cain is a ruthless leader that has put aside her humanity. Is she a bad person? Maybe, albeit, judged on a moral high ground. Death, murder, war, betrayal-- all affect individuals differently. Cain reacted to the situation according to her background. Her actions can't be faulted even by Adama.
Razor muddles Cain's character; Cain actually seems human in the way she teaches Shaw and in the way she runs her ship. Cain's treatment of Gina is untennable. Their relationship illustrates the extremes that Cain must detached herself in order to survive.
By all means, Cain isn't the best illustration of how to morally act during the time of war. Survival only meant the survival of the military to fight the enemy and show no weakness. Isn't odd that Cain tried to be more like a war machine to fight the toasters than to keep what supposedly seperates the toasters from the humans?
I guess what I am trying to say is that we should look upon Cain first as a person, then a woman, and lastly as a lesbian. BSG's treatment of Gina's and Cain's relationship is at the least progressive. Personally, I don't think that the verbalization of the relationship was necessary; in fact, the lines were bulky and sort of awkward.
Lesbian or not, Cain is a very complex character that needed this two hour episode to flesh out some of her characteristics and maybe they should think about adding a few more spin-offs. I know I would like to see this character developed more.